2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

OR, make the GSW trade a 3 team deal with ATL and swap Maxi for Collins and give the Min 1st to ATL.

[KillerLeft]

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...86017?s=20

[Fuerza1]

The Warriors are not going to trade Wiseman, especially for KP. Is KP worth the #2 overall pick in an NBA draft? Hell no. And why would the Warriors go all in until they at least see how Klay looks next season? Warriors are doing the right thing right now, push for a playoff appearance while developing the young guys, which is what the Mavs should be doing. But that's a Carlisle problem.

[ItsGoTime]

That just shows how far off we are when it comes to KPs value. Most Warriors fans don´t want to trade Wiggins straight up for KP. Wiggins is on a horrible contract as well but he improved as a defender and rarely misses games. Wiggins missed one game in his first four seasons. 19 over his entire career. Oubres contract is a lot better but he probably is the worst player among the three mentioned guys.
Healthy KP is obviously a way better player and we can hope that GMs have a higher opinion than the fans but I do think that the 2nd pick in the draft has more value than KP right now. Even more important. The Warriors play a switch heavy defense. Not sure how that is going to work with KP.
Personally I would do it without thinking twice but I am probably higher on Wiseman than most guys. People tend to forget that he is among the youngest players in the draft class and never played any college games. No suprise that he isn´t having a positive net impact in his first season. But he has nearly unlimited potential. Make no mistake. He would have been the undisputed first pick without the ban.

If it’s that far off with NBA GMs, Donnie won’t make the trade unless he is actually asking out.

[ItsGoTime]

Wiseman is pretty special, athletically, and you already know about his size. He shows flashes of offensive skill from the outside and in transition, but those parts are less certain to become consistent. 

If he stays as mobile and aggressive as he becomes more comfortable, he could be a special defender, imo. I legit don't believe GS would give him for KP, though potential isn't everything, as we all know. Personally, I'd be thrilled.

Again, if his worth isn’t there, then there is no way Donnie is trading him sans a determined demand from KP.

[Hypermav]

I would rather not make the GSW better.  If they have the best deal (assuming this is even real) then fine, but seems like we should charge an in conference fee.

I think KP is closer to a Bogut than a KD type replacement.

[ItsGoTime]

The Warriors are not going to trade Wiseman, especially for KP. Is KP worth the #2 overall pick in an NBA draft? Hell no. And why would the Warriors go all in until they at least see how Klay looks next season? Warriors are doing the right thing right now, push for a playoff appearance while developing the young guys, which is what the Mavs should be doing. But that's a Carlisle problem.

I’m starting to believe in an RC problem tbqh. Also, second team all-bubble is worth more than the #2 pick in a past draft.

[KillerLeft]

Again, if his worth isn’t there, then there is no way Donnie is trading him sans a determined demand from KP.

Well, my point is that I believe the worth IS there.

[ItsGoTime]

I legit don't believe GS would give him for KP, though potential isn't everything, as we all know.

Then I read this wrong, sorry.

[Fuerza1]

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...86017?s=20

This is nothing new, we've been hinting at the Mavs' poor spending habits for the last 10 seasons, and how it exacerbated with the Dwight Powell pre-ejaculation contract extension. They love overpaying good locker room guys. 

Furthermore, the MBT continue to abandon continuity and develop batches of youth year-in-and-year-out in favor of veterans and expiring contracts. Couple this with poor player projection abilities, it's no secret why the Mavs continue to have low assets. Dirk had to endure the same BS and now it's Luka's turn. It's all about the powder, baby. 

I listened to Bill Simmons' podcast earlier and Zach Lowe was on there, where he mentioned a Kevin McHale quote about cap space; "oh yeah, cap space, that's real nice to have on the team. Put cap space on the back of the jersey." I am surprised Cuban hasn't done this yet, Cap Space (or Powder) jerseys would sell like hot cakes on Mavs shop dot com.

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I’m starting to believe in an RC problem tbqh. Also, second team all-bubble is worth more than the #2 pick in a past draft.

We see eye-to-eye with Carlisle and there's lengthy discussions to be had about that.

But as for the bubble, I don't think you can buy much into that extremely small sample size. Burke looked pretty good too, I recall some envisioning him as the 6th man for this team or even starting before the season. Yikes. 

KP is not an all-star player, nor an all-defense type of player. And he is making MAX money. Now he is slowly deteriorating into Parsons' skeleton. Wiseman has elite tools and is super young, but I guess it depends how you feel about him and his potential. And how you feel about KP's health going forward.

All a moot point though.

[ItsGoTime]

All a moot point though.

Very true. It’s also like a cow”s opinion, it’s moooo.

[cow]

Ooof. 

On the one hand, if true, then we know KP isn't being held out for some trade and the Mavs are lying to cover it up or some poppycock.

On the other, not a good look that during his mini-training camp he hurts his back bad enough to be out an additional week and has to wear a back brace. 

Unfortunate.

Back brace was obviously a gift from Steph Curry (via Seth) as a smokescreen to hide the trade.

[Jason Terry]

That just shows how far off we are when it comes to KPs value. Most Warriors fans don´t want to trade Wiggins straight up for KP. Wiggins is on a horrible contract as well but he improved as a defender and rarely misses games. Wiggins missed one game in his first four seasons. 19 over his entire career. Oubres contract is a lot better but he probably is the worst player among the three mentioned guys.
Healthy KP is obviously a way better player and we can hope that GMs have a higher opinion than the fans but I do think that the 2nd pick in the draft has more value than KP right now. Even more important. The Warriors play a switch heavy defense. Not sure how that is going to work with KP.
Personally I would do it without thinking twice but I am probably higher on Wiseman than most guys. People tend to forget that he is among the youngest players in the draft class and never played any college games. No suprise that he isn´t having a positive net impact in his first season. But he has nearly unlimited potential. Make no mistake. He would have been the undisputed first pick without the ban.

You’re probably right. GSW probably would try to keep Wiggins if they could. Oubre is a worse player by a good bit. A lineup of Curry/Thompson/Wiggins/Green/KP would be my goal if i was a warriors fan. Green is the perfect front court partner for KP and KP would fit well in their system. Also KP would fit their timeline better than Wiseman and the Minny pick. Also, if we got both the MIN 1st AND Wiseman I’d expect we would need to send another asset to GSW

For our end I would keep Wiseman and try to flip everything else we have to make it a 3 team trade. ATL, ORL and CHI all make a ton of sense and would greatly value a MIN 1st. Horford would make sense too but i don’t think it’s possible to include either Oubre or Johnson in a trade for him. 

Something like: 
GSW get: KP, small asset from mavs

CHI gets: Oubre, MIN 1st, small  asset from mavs, GSW sends any contracts they don’t want to CHI

DAL gets: Wiseman, Markkanen and Thad Young

[ItsGoTime]

Now he is slowly deteriorating into Parsons' skeleton.

I guess this is what some of you guys are so worried about. Not gonna rule that out as a possibility, just really don’t think it is as probable as you guys are making it out to be.

[cow]

The Warriors are not going to trade Wiseman, especially for KP. Is KP worth the #2 overall pick in an NBA draft? Hell no. And why would the Warriors go all in until they at least see how Klay looks next season? Warriors are doing the right thing right now, push for a playoff appearance while developing the young guys, which is what the Mavs should be doing. But that's a Carlisle problem.

Underrated post.  With Wall and Durant looking so good, law of averages is going against Klay unfortunately.

[ItsGoTime]

law of averages is going against Klay unfortunately.

Powell bringing that average down unfortunately for us.

[cow]

Furthermore, the MBT continue to abandon continuity and develop batches of youth year-in-and-year-out in favor of veterans and expiring contracts. Couple this with poor player projection abilities, it's no secret why the Mavs continue to have low assets. Dirk had to endure the same BS and now it's Luka's turn.

The good/bad news is that Luka's not going to put up with it long term.  Mavs will probably lose him but maybe that will motivate Mark to make GM and coaching changes the team has desperately needed or a decade plus.  And when Luka goes for greener pastures, remember these past two off seasons.

Carlisle's a great coach in the right situations, but a rebuilding team is not one of them.  He has trouble developing talent and often has conflicts with the players acquired via the front office.

As much as we give credit to Donnie for being a trade Wizard, what's the last successful trade he really pulled off?  Our drafts and free agency acquisitions are abysmal.

[SleepingHero]

I guess I need to go back on hehestreams and watch some GS games with him. I read a Phil fan saying he is probably in the running to be runner-up ROTY currently.

I've been keeping an eye on Wiseman because I felt he could be the best player from this class.

So far he's been good, not great. You can see the talent, but he's extremely raw. I think without Draymond coaching him he'd be lost and probably get barely 10mpg.

His rookie campaign has been relatively a small sample size though. He just came back from an 11 game hiatus dealing with a sprained wrist. 

If the Mavs were to get him in a trade, the one pitfall I'd be wary of his him getting completely shutdown by RC, losing all his confidence, and him never developing. Eventually fading away as a career journey man big. Of course his talent alone might mean that isn't possible, but the dude is essentially a high schooler that made the NBA jump.

[cow]

So far he's been good, not great. You can see the talent, but he's extremely raw. I think without Draymond coaching him he'd be lost and probably get barely 10mpg.

Speaking of underrated points.  It's probably why Wiggins has shown improvement on the defensive end too.

[KillerLeft]

So far he's been good, not great. You can see the talent, but he's extremely raw.

Totally. But, the talent you can see (I agree) is more than what I expected to see, personally. I think he, along with Haliburton, is one of the two absolute can't miss guys from this class who've already found a toehold in the league. I have no idea what Wiseman's ceiling is, but I know he'll have a good career. He'll be much more useful than Marvin Bagley, for example. Probably better than KP, too, imo.