TRADE: Curry to PHI | Richardson + #36 [Tyler Bey, 6'7", 7'1.25" WS] to DAL

[ItsGoTime]

This is an optimistic way of thinking that I would absolutely ride for (I'm a huge believer in player development and the fact that it can happen long after fans believe - well into the 30's). Only, I will be shocked if Porzingis ever has an actual healthy off-season again.

Richardson: absolutely agree. He should look better here as time goes by and he and the team become more familiar with each other. But, that doesn't mean I'm scared to move on from him. Not looking to dump him, but I've seen enough to know he's not a cornerstone piece, either, no matter how much he develops. He's on the same level as Kleber/DFS.

All legit and I don’t believe we’re all that far off from one another, esp JRich. KP is a remains to be seen.

[Fuerza1]

The trade was a no-brainer for Philly, they were desperate for 3PT shooting and Richardson's skillset was redundant with Philly's starters. But don't act like Seth is anything special, just an expendable 12 ppg scorer who happens to be surrounded with elite players and an elite coach who knows how to maximize the team. Beating up a mediocre Mavs roster doesn't mean anything, Philly fans are still calling for Seth to head to the bench where he belongs.

As for the Mavs, the trade made perfect sense. The Mavs played better on OFFENSE and DEFENSE when Seth Curry was off the court last season. The Mavs were desperate for defense. But the return has been abysmal; Richardson is not a lockdown guy and shoots 30% from three. He kills the offense when the ball is in his hands like Delon Wright last year. Richardson does not guard the opponent's best perimeter player most nights, it's DFS. 

Richardson + Luka are a -2.5 net rating when playing together. Despite this, I do not believe the trade is why the Mavs are worse, there are bigger factors than that, but it certainly hasn't been a positive.

[KillerLeft]

Richardson + Luka are a -2.5 net rating when playing together. Despite this, I do not believe the trade is why the Mavs are worse, there are bigger factors than that, but it certainly hasn't been a positive.

Definitely agree with the "bigger factors" part. This trade, as part of the puzzle the Mavs THOUGHT they were adding to (the one with a worthy max-level player at center) might have looked great.

[Thukydides]

But don't act like Seth is anything special, just an expendable 12 ppg scorer who happens to be surrounded with elite players and an elite coach who knows how to maximize the team.

See, I absolutely disagree here. As a stat ppg is not the right assessment for seth. I think his presence is much much more valuable than 12 ppg would suggest, because even if he misses five in a row, he'll be guarded tightly. We have no such player on the roster right now

[cow]

I hate it when I'm right.

[Fuerza1]

Oh yeah I forgot, Seth dropped 9 of his 15 points in Richardson's face last night. Richardson scored zero on Seth. The very first play of the game, Richardson tried to go 1v1 on Seth, and looked like junior varsity against Seth's Gary Payton like passion, and Richardson lost the ball. It's 1 game but man it really stood out.

[mavsluvr]

See, I absolutely disagree here. As a stat ppg is not the right assessment for seth. I think his presence is much much more valuable than 12 ppg would suggest, because even if he misses five in a row, he'll be guarded tightly. We have no such player on the roster right now

A point which is often overlooked. Seth was a very effective floor spacer, whether he scored or not. Opponents do not show Josh the same respect, nor should they. Josh has other advantages, of course.

[cow]

"Nothing personal, I just think they made a bad business decision."

[KillerLeft]

We have no such player on the roster right now

I agree about Curry's value, when looked at from that angle. Completely agree. However, Hardaway is like that, too, no matter how sick of him people get around here. Avoiding open catch and shoot opps for him is absolutely on the mind of the opponents in exactly the same way. 

Was having TWO players like that something we took for granted? Yeah, maybe. But, the bigger issue, offensively, is that the guys who ARE left open haven't made the defense pay often enough this season, so far.

[Fuerza1]

See, I absolutely disagree here. As a stat ppg is not the right assessment for seth. I think his presence is much much more valuable than 12 ppg would suggest, because even if he misses five in a row, he'll be guarded tightly. We have no such player on the roster right now

The Mavs have two players capable of that in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Jalen Brunson. The problem is they both don't start, which is weird considering both are considerably better than Richardson, especially when playing next to Luka. 

THJ was a freakin' starter last year, and the starting 5 of THJ, DFS, Luka, Kleber, and KP was effective vs Clippers in the playoffs until KP got hurt. 

It's either Carlisle does not know who his best players are or the MBT are willing to sacrifice games so they can maintain what little value JRich has for when they eventually dump him. It's most likely the latter but that's not a good look for Carlisle either.

[cow]

I agree about Curry's value, when looked at from that angle. Completely agree. However, Hardaway is like that, too, no matter how sick of him people get around here. Avoiding open catch and shoot opps for him is absolutely on the mind of the opponents in exactly the same way. 

Was having TWO players like that something we took for granted? Yeah, maybe. But, the bigger issue, offensively, is that the guys who ARE left open haven't made the defense pay often enough this season, so far.

DFS that last three games has been dreadful.  Timmy goes hot and cold but never for stretches like this and you still have to honor his shot because he's the type of dude that goes off once he sees one fall.  I'd honestly dare DFS to shoot at this point.

[KillerLeft]

The Mavs have two players capable of that in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Jalen Brunson.

You know, I'm not quite as confident in Brunson's current trajectory as you are, but I do agree he's killing it as a catch and shoot guy recently. That's a very positive development, and I hope it keeps up. If so, the stuff he can do off of the bounce will become even more deadly, and he could absolutely be that second creator we've all been screaming for around here. 

I can envision him as a starter here, possibly, and admit I couldn't see it that way a year ago. I hope he keeps improving.

[mavsluvr]

I agree about Curry's value, when looked at from that angle. Completely agree. However, Hardaway is like that, too, no matter how sick of him people get around here. Avoiding open catch and shoot opps for him is absolutely on the mind of the opponents in exactly the same way. 

Was having TWO players like that something we took for granted? Yeah, maybe. But, the bigger issue, offensively, is that the guys who ARE left open haven't made the defense pay often enough this season, so far.

Agree with the above. 

From a bigger picture point of view, I am beginning to wonder if some of our attempts to analyze small differences in one player versus another are somewhat ill-taken. More and more, it seems to me we may have been seduced into having greater expectations for this roster than was warranted, even taking into account their genuine bad luck this season. KP is an issue unto himself, and I don't even address him for purposes of this post. 

What I speak of is guys like DFS, Maxi, Josh, Powell -- guys we consider part of the core. I'm not saying they aren't good for what they are, but really, aren't these guys all journeymen in the final analysis? They seem like they're all punching a notch or two above their weight, and a perfect storm of things going just right would have to happen for them to succeed in a manner suitable to fully support Luka's talents. 

This team seems to me it needs an upgrade at a number of positions if contention is to become a reality. Perhaps if KP were playing up to expectations, these issues would sort themselves out, but I have my doubts. 

Would love to be convinced I'm wrong.

[cow]

You know, I'm not quite as confident in Brunson's current trajectory as you are, but I do agree he's killing it as a catch and shoot guy recently. That's a very positive development, and I hope it keeps up. If so, the stuff he can do off of the bounce will become even more deadly, and he could absolutely be that second creator we've all been screaming for around here. 

I can envision him as a starter here, possibly, and admit I couldn't see it that way a year ago. I hope he keeps improving.

The problem with starting him is that teams can pick on him defensively which is what Philly did to him last night.

[KillerLeft]

What I speak of is guys like DFS, Maxi, Josh, Powell -- guys we consider part of the core. I'm not saying they aren't good for what they are, but really, aren't these guys all journeymen in the final analysis? They seem like they're all punching a notch or two above their weight, and a perfect storm of things going just right would have to happen for them to succeed in a manner suitable to fully support Luka's talents. 

This team seems to me it needs an upgrade at a number of positions if contention is to become a reality. Perhaps if KP were playing up to expectations, these issues would sort themselves out, but I have my doubts. 

Would love to be convinced I'm wrong.

I think there's some truth to this line of thinking, and many have offered versions of this opinion before. It's valid.

The other side of the coin is that the value of those guys is that they're all great team guys. I think it's really possible that the REASON they were able to punch above their weight successfully is that the TEAM was uncommonly bonded, organized and well-coached. The biggest casualty of this abnormal season, to me, has been Carlisle's ability to coach the team to collectively outperform their individual talents, as he almost always does. I've said this before, but some other similarly detailed coaches, such as Stevens, Nurse and Spoelstra, are also having rough seasons. I don't think it's coincidence - I see cause and effect. MUCH less preparation time and routine for guys who've made careers out of process has resulted in necessary experimentation. Some people are sick of hearing about the "excuses," and I don't blame them. But, just because we're sick of talking about that stuff doesn't mean it's not the absolute center of what has gone wrong. Kind of the elephant in the room, to me, and unavoidable.

[hakeemfan]

I think because of the injuries and kinda journeyman career of Seth, the Mavs undervalued Seth a bit. For comparison they would never have traded a Joe Harris for Richardson . If they had to do it again, they would still try and trade for Richardson, who I think is a solid player, but Seth would have been off limits.

[KillerLeft]

The problem with starting him is that teams can pick on him defensively which is what Philly did to him last night.

He's small, sure. But, Luka isn't. That means that the Mavs are in a unique position to play two PG's should they choose that option. 

I see no reason that Brunson can't be worked around the same way Lillard, Young, Paul and other shrimps are. I realize that not all of them are equal, defensively, but I also don't think expecting Brunson to meet in the middle by improving as a defender is hopeless. On a team with good defensive center play (hopefully, the Mavs will join that club eventually) anything is possible.

I'm not saying they should go full steam ahead on starting the guy, but I CAN envision it as a way forward, possibly.

[cow]

He's small, sure. But, Luka isn't. That means that the Mavs are in a unique position to play two PG's should they choose that option. 

I see no reason that Brunson can't be worked around the same way Lillard, Young, Paul and other shrimps are. I realize that not all of them are equal, defensively, but I also don't think expecting Brunson to meet in the middle by improving as a defender is hopeless. On a team with good defensive center play (hopefully, the Mavs will join that club eventually) anything is possible.

I'm not saying they should go full steam ahead on starting the guy, but I CAN envision it as a way forward, possibly.

Luka is bad defender too though and it's not like they can funnel opposing guards into our rotation of big men.  You'd just look for switches for blow byes on Luka or post ups on Jalen.

But on the contrary, I think we should start Jalen.  He's earned the right as our second best player.  Keep raising his value.

[mavsluvr]

I think there's some truth to this line of thinking, and many have offered versions of this opinion before. It's valid.

The other side of the coin is that the value of those guys is that they're all great team guys. I think it's really possible that the REASON they were able to punch above their weight successfully is that the TEAM was uncommonly bonded, organized and well-coached. The biggest casualty of this abnormal season, to me, has been Carlisle's ability to coach the team to collectively outperform their individual talents, as he almost always does. I've said this before, but some other similarly detailed coaches, such as Stevens, Nurse and Spoelstra, are also having rough seasons. I don't think it's coincidence - I see cause and effect. MUCH less preparation time and routine for guys who've made careers out of process has resulted in necessary experimentation. Some people are sick of hearing about the "excuses," and I don't blame them. But, just because we're sick of talking about that stuff doesn't mean it's not the absolute center of what has gone wrong. Kind of the elephant in the room, to me, and unavoidable.

A thoughtful answer, and I totally buy it. Maybe Rick's greatest talent is his ability to develop the synergy in a group. I think we saw that in spades in the championship year. And for real and legitimate reasons, that has been difficult in this campaign. I think the team will improve as time goes on, although it may be that this will prove a lost season in terms of results. 

But I think the ability to make silk purses reaches a limit somewhere. It's like, on a scale of 1 to 10, we have a bunch of players who are fives and sixes. Skillful coaching might turn them into performing like sevens. But how much higher than that they can go without better raw materials is questionable. Luka is ready for a better supporting cast now. I really wonder whether the next move is to turn some of these yeomen into solid win-now veterans. I doubt that will be a popular sentiment on the board, but it seems to me that Luka is outrunning this group fast. 

OTOH, I take your point on KP. If they decide to go in a different direction with him, that very probably involves taking a step back, and would involve a change in the trajectory.

[KillerLeft]

OTOH, I take your point on KP. If they decide to go in a different direction with him, that very probably involves taking a step back, and would involve a change in the trajectory.

For sure. The perfect trade where KP goes to some team who sends back the perfect, all-star 26 year old running mate for Luka isn't out there, and it never will be. From there, it's a simple "if/then" equation. If KP isn't the answer, then you have to get what you can for him and start searching for answers in other places. The fact that KP isn't likely to bring a solution to the 2nd star problem in return does NOT make him a solution to the 2nd star problem. Sadly, that's just not reality.