TRADE: Curry to PHI | Richardson + #36 [Tyler Bey, 6'7", 7'1.25" WS] to DAL

[mavsluvr]

I think because of the injuries and kinda journeyman career of Seth, the Mavs undervalued Seth a bit. For comparison they would never have traded a Joe Harris for Richardson . If they had to do it again, they would still try and trade for Richardson, who I think is a solid player, but Seth would have been off limits.

Maybe. I know the Mavs said they have long had their eye on Richardson and Johnson and so forth, but I think a big part of the attraction was their short contracts. 

I don't have a problem in principle with sacrificing some offense to gain substantially better defense. The problem is that it hasn't really worked out. They traded an otherworldly bench shooting talent for a pretty average starter. All the hype about the new defensive mindset hasn't really come to fruition. 

They picked up several guys, all of whom were supposed to add something, but mostly they haven't. The 8-man rotation is essentially last year's team, plus JRich, who doesn't even always make it into the closing unit. Ideally, they would attract some players who would push guys like Maxi and DFS to the bench, and guys like Johnson, Powell, and Willie out of the rotation, rather than continuing to shuffle the 9-17 deck chairs. 

It might be time to lighten up on prioritizing flexibility, and look for guys who have winning in their veins. Of course, that is difficult if you don't have your core in place, and the jury still appears to be out on KP.

[omahen]

For sure. The perfect trade where KP goes to some team who sends back the perfect, all-star 26 year old running mate for Luka isn't out there, and it never will be. From there, it's a simple "if/then" equation. If KP isn't the answer, then you have to get what you can for him and start searching for answers in other places. The fact that KP isn't likely to bring a solution to the 2nd star problem in return does NOT make him a solution to the 2nd star problem. Sadly, that's just not reality.

I think I totally agree. No way you would get a 2nd star for KP. If someone is trading a star, they are likely rebuilding. They don't want a "star" back, they want young players and picks. Our partner is a desperate team. Someone who desperately needs a star to save the season. Mavs are also not interested in rebuild (picks, young players), they want to improve. If I value our guys with marks from 1-6, we have:
- Luka 6
- KP 4
- THJ, JB, JRich 2
- Kleber, DFS 1
- the rest are basically vet min quality or prospects

What I would consider a good trade for Mavs is to turn KP (a 4) into two threes. Or a two and a four. No problem to add an asset to make it happen or eat salary. We need a third (rebuilding) team to pull that off, because the desperate team wants to add player value, not reduce it. This is basically the only way I am trading him. From here on are subjective evaluations of specific players and subjective views what one think a specific team goal is. My examples:

Dal: Bertans (a 2), Collins (a 4, who will be overpaid)
Was (desperate): KP
Atl (looking to get value for Collins): Was and Dal assets

Dal: Vucevic (a good 4, but older), Young (a 2)
Chi (desperate, build around LaVine): KP
Orl: Chi assets (Markannen, picks), Dal asset

[omahen]

All the hype about the new defensive mindset hasn't really come to fruition.

I think this is not totally correct. Defense without KP is quite good. Problem is that offense without KP is not, especially as we get basically nothing from our center/power forward line. With KP, offense is very good, but defense is trash (has been so far). With last year KP, our defense would be better as it was last year and our offense would still be near top.

[StepBackJay]

Washington would be desperate enough to overpay. Are any of their young guys assets that Mavs would really want? I haven't watched enough to know. I would imagine their package would be Bertans some young players and or filler plus picks. I bet you could get at least two first rounders from them on top of players they send back.

[ItsGoTime]

I really wonder whether the next move is to turn some of these yeomen into solid win-now veterans. I doubt that will be a popular sentiment on the board, but it seems to me that Luka is outrunning this group fast. 

I've been saying this for the past 2 offseasons when people were saying Maxi Kleber is only available for a star return and DFS is only available for a star return, now it's JB. These guys are good, they aren't that good and multiple of them are gonna be needed to be aggregated together to amount to the value it takes to get the quality of player needed on this team.


I think Maxi and JRich has enough value to only have to add something smaller to get you someone like Turner for instance. A higher quality player then either of them, but not so much higher that he's an all star. KP (in a fully healthy offseason) and JB packaged together with picks should be enough value for a Beal type return, if Was was being reasonable about Beal's value (so not necessarily Beal himself, but the level of player that Beal is).

[mavsluvr]

I think this is not totally correct. Defense without KP is quite good. Problem is that offense without KP is not, especially as we get basically nothing from our center/power forward line. With KP, offense is very good, but defense is trash (has been so far). With last year KP, our defense would be better as it was last year and our offense would still be near top.

I don't know. With the West being what it is now, being as good as we were last year amounts to running in place at best, while other teams are getting better all around us. 

The team made a lot of noise about adding better defensive players, and they did get a few. But guys like Iwundu and the rookies don't appear in competitive minutes, Johnson only plays situationally, and WCS plays limited minutes and often looks clueless, tbh. The only guy they have added in any major way is Richardson, and the results are still a work in progress. 

The defense without KP is better, but I don't know if it can be labelled "quite good." To be relevant these days, you have to be able to stop the likes of LeBron and AD, Kawhi and Paul George, Utah's guys, and the other scoring powers in the league. I don't think we're there. 

Of course, the real point is not to complain about it, but to question whether it is time to adjust their team-building approach. To date, they are trying to preserve flexibility for that third star, and keeping fair-to-middling guys as the supporting cast pending the resolution. I don't think the Mavs have to be a good team right now -- and, indeed, they aren't. But they need to be getting closer to the goal each season (and that would count taking a step back if they have to lose KP). 

Realistically, how much better is a guy like Maxi going to get? He's 29 years old. Or DFS? Sometimes, I think we would like to think those guys are eventually going to turn into almost-Kawhis and Durants and  Chris Pauls and the like, but really, what we see is very probably pretty close to what we're going to get, accounting for short-term issues like recovering from COVID. 

It seems like, at some point, they may just be spinning their wheels trying to grow this core into something other than a young team trying to graduate into relevance. Maybe they'll need to adjust their vision. Or, then again, maybe not.

[Branduil]

I think defensively the Mavs were absolutely counting on KP at least being as much of a rim-protector as he was last year. If he was playing at that level defensively then I have no doubt the Mavs defense would show a big improvement. They certainly were not planning on him being the worst defender in the NBA.

[khaled1987]

I am glad we have reopened this thread. I think we have seen that the Mavs have come away from 2 off-seasons with almost nothing to show for it. Curry was the one nice piece Mavs added and we sent him away for expiring Richardson.

These other pieces Wright, JJ, Boban, Burke, WCS are not moving the needle at all. I think Mavs obsession with cap space leads them to make bad decisions. So here we are with Richardson who doesn't have a deal next year + rookies who never play.

I was a big proponent of using our picks to get players plus dump Wright/Jackson. I still wonder if the Mavs would have been better off just grabbing Danny Green for Wright/Jax + #31 and then not moving Curry. I feel like we would be a lot better.

Not using the full MLE on a good player but spitting it for mediocre players (WCS/Burke) is not helping.

People love Boban but I am so frustrated to have a situational guy like that on the team. Maybe it doesn't matter bc you can have 1 of those guys on a 15 man roster. But our big rotation sucks.

I don't think the Mavs really had such obsession with cap space tbh.
Sure, they were flexible enough to keep their chances on 2021 FA in general, but they were after Gallinari, Crowder, Gasol in past off-season, they were also after Kemba in 2019, Curry and Wright contracts were beyond 2021 too.

I simply think we wanted a certain value from full MLE player, but the problem is this type of guys either will look for bigger contract or to play with a veteran team who they see bigger chance of winning (Lakers team, or Suns after bubble with a well respected CP3)

[LukTheShadow]

Through Feb 25....

I don't want to go into any trade and team building discussions as I want to preserve my nerves but looking big picture I would say only this: If this graph is partial result of 2 year team rebuilding procedure there should be something wrong on team builders mindset side. Not on players at all. If it will not be changed in fornt of new trades results could easily not change direction.

[ItsGoTime]

but the problem is this type of guys either will look for bigger contract or to play with a veteran team who they see bigger chance of winning (Lakers team, or Suns after bubble with a well respected CP3)

Not all players that changed teams went this route. There are players we aren't identifying and that would have come here (or there is a huge problem with our pitch man???????), we've always been a stepping stone in FA bidding wars to drive up the price for the team they actually want to go to. Luka hasn't changed that landscape, and I won't even say yet anymore, it'll change if it ever changes, but there is no guarantee it will anymore.

[khaled1987]

Not all players that changed teams went this route. There are players we aren't identifying and that would have come here (or there is a huge problem with our pitch man???????)

I agree it isn't all player, but I am talking about full MLE players (or cheap0 S&T) that the Mavs actually wanted. The Crowder, Gasol and Gallinari of the world

[StepBackJay]

Gallo was much more than MLE. The guys Mavs maybe had a shot at were Crowder, Ibaka and Harrell. Crowder I think was tough bc he wanted a bigger role than Mavs would give him. Ibaka and Harrell might have still gone with LA teams.

[ItsGoTime]

Gallo was much more than MLE. The guys Mavs maybe had a shot at were Crowder, Ibaka and Harrell. Crowder I think was tough bc he wanted a bigger role than Mavs would give him. Ibaka and Harrell might have still gone with LA teams.

Harrell gave LaL a discount to play there. I mean, he's the reigning 6th man of the year!

[Chicagojk]

Philly has to be thrilled with the trade.   I thought Dallas made the right decision...and that still may be true.  Although Philly gets a player on a real good contract who fits their team.  The beauty of Seth is he can have those games where he gets 6 points and doesn't provide much.  Although Dallas and this years Philly team doesn't really hurt them to much.   But on the plus side, Seth can get you 25-30 and just carry your team sometimes.  I am sure he will do this in a playoff game.   

Philly gave up a draft pick for Bey.  But I believe they are very happy with Paul Reed, who has also put up real nice G-League stats.

[ItsGoTime]

Philly gave up a draft pick for Bey.  But I believe they are very happy with Paul Reed, who has also put up real nice G-League stats.

They honestly needed to get rid of some of the draft picks they had, so for them, it was a no brainer, for us it could be an equalizing or tipping point. I thought it was a clear win for us at the time because I thought we would have to give up the pick to get JRich. I now believe it is still in the win-win category. JRich is what the team needs, the team just doesn't know how to play/coach with/to that skillset. Also, Seth on this team wouldn't be what he is on that team.

[cow]

 Also, Seth on this team wouldn't be what he is on that team.