Davevoid > 11-13-2020, 05:37 PM
fifteenth > 11-15-2020, 12:03 PM
ItsGoTime > 11-17-2020, 05:04 AM
(11-15-2020, 12:03 PM)fifteenth Wrote: It isn't clear to me that the U.S. will remain a part of the "civilized" world. I'm not sure if Trump's antics are 1) the tantrum of a spoiled brat, 2) a non-transparent fund raising effort where supporters think they're helping expose voter fraud but are actually helping Trump with debt and helping him set up a PAC through which he can attempt to run the Republican party after he leaves office, or 3) the initial stages of a coup attempt.Can I get a name of a politician that is not trying to deceive the American people?
Regardless of his intent, he has somehow deceived (what feels like) half the country. The whole sale belief I'm seeing, or at least hesitance to disbelieve, his fiction is scary. And I don't really get scared by politics.
I'm waiting to see if he's a selfish childish brat or a usurper. And I'm waiting to see whether democracy can continue in the U.S when such a large portion of our country can be sold a flat earth level conspiracy theory. If Trump can deceive this many what happens when the next, more competent deceiver shows up?
fifteenth > 11-19-2020, 06:54 PM
(11-17-2020, 05:04 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Can I get a name of a politician that is not trying to deceive the American people?
ItsGoTime > 11-19-2020, 08:27 PM
(11-19-2020, 06:54 PM)fifteenth Wrote: But the fact that such a large portion of the population can be decieved by claims devoid of evidence makes me wonder what's going to happen when a more charismatic and talented leader comes along who decides he isn't quite ready to give up his power.This is the point I'm making. Both sides are deceiving very large portions of the American people into thinking the other side is the devil. This can only end in bad if "We the people" don't stop them from deceiving us all...ALL THE TIME!!!
haveitall > 01-07-2021, 01:56 PM
fifteenth > 01-14-2021, 02:03 PM
(01-07-2021, 01:56 PM)haveitall Wrote: 1. What happened yesterday was a disgrace. Its an embarrassment to Republicans.
2. You cannot condemn yesterdays riots on capitol hill and support the riots in Seattle, Portland, NYC etc. I heard an announcer on ESPN broadcast try to justify BLM riots in the middle of the game and turned my TV off.
3. Everyone believes their cause is important and just and it may well be, but when mobs break into violence, that's where my support ends.
ItsGoTime > 01-14-2021, 02:32 PM
(01-14-2021, 02:03 PM)fifteenth Wrote: But the incidents are different. Storming the capitol is definitely a different animal. And storming the capitol as the overflow of a President caused hysteria over conspiracy theories is a different animal.I don't see how you can say the incidents are different. I have heard a few people who wanted to go to the capitol in peaceful protest before this all happened. A cousin had a plane ticket to go, but unfortunately died in a freak accident at work before he had a chance. Just like the BLM protests, there were those who went for one reason, and others went for another.
fifteenth > 01-14-2021, 03:17 PM
(01-14-2021, 02:32 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Violence is violence, doesn't matter what the reason for it is. No one should get a free pass for any reason on that, regardless of how apologetic some are because of what others have done to that group. If some kind of violence is acted on any of us (extreme or not), I'd suspect they'd want justice served. We can all turn the other cheek and forgive, the Government shouldn't.
ItsGoTime > 01-14-2021, 05:31 PM
(01-14-2021, 03:17 PM)fifteenth Wrote: Torture and murder are prosecuted differently from assault. Homicide is prosecuted differently than manslaughter.You're talking about prosecution, that's what I addressed in the end by saying "the Government should not" (turn the other cheek and forgive).
(01-14-2021, 03:17 PM)fifteenth Wrote: And I'm not giving rioters from last summer or folks that attacked the capitol a pass. Both are wrong. But they are different. No doubt about that.
fifteenth > 01-14-2021, 05:54 PM
(01-14-2021, 05:31 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: You're talking about prosecution, that's what I addressed in the end by saying "the Government should not" (turn the other cheek and forgive).
This statement bothers me. You say both are wrong, but then you're arguing that one is more justifiable than the other. That to me, says while you're saying you're not giving the 1 a pass, you're really giving them a pass because, well, it's not soooooooo bad.
fifteenth > 01-15-2021, 12:25 PM
(01-14-2021, 09:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Prosecution is done in the court of law, which is upholding the law of the government, right?
ItsGoTime > 01-15-2021, 02:39 PM
fifteenth > 01-15-2021, 05:14 PM
(01-15-2021, 02:39 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: We’re observers from the outside commenting on events that happened in other places other than our backyard or in our home for that matter. I’m sure the people that were attacked in either of those idiotic violent acts in both cases would not share your ability to make one less justifiable than the other.
Regardless of what a court of law or the government would rule about it.
ItsGoTime > 01-15-2021, 05:53 PM
(01-15-2021, 05:14 PM)fifteenth Wrote: I'm not saying either is at all justifiable. Degrees of evil is not a new concept. It's ancient. I didn't come up with it.I think maybe where the disconnect is is where you're trying to talk about the cause of the protests and I'm talking about the evil that happened from those good intentions. The cause is a separate issue from the violent acts in my mind, and the violent acts were no worse in either instance. People were beaten in both cases, that's why I said violence is violence, in relation to eachother, not the cause that was happening around them.
fifteenth > 01-15-2021, 06:02 PM
(01-15-2021, 05:53 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think maybe where the disconnect is is where you're trying to talk about the cause of the protests and I'm talking about the evil that happened from those good intentions. The cause is a separate issue from the violent acts in my mind, and the violent acts were no worse in either instance. People were beaten in both cases, that's why I said violence is violence, in relation to eachother, not the cause that was happening around them.
Dahlsim > 01-17-2021, 01:09 PM
(11-15-2020, 12:03 PM)fifteenth Wrote: It isn't clear to me that the U.S. will remain a part of the "civilized" world. I'm not sure if Trump's antics are 1) the tantrum of a spoiled brat, 2) a non-transparent fund raising effort where supporters think they're helping expose voter fraud but are actually helping Trump with debt and helping him set up a PAC through which he can attempt to run the Republican party after he leaves office, or 3) the initial stages of a coup attempt.
Regardless of his intent, he has somehow deceived (what feels like) half the country. The whole sale belief I'm seeing, or at least hesitance to disbelieve, his fiction is scary. And I don't really get scared by politics.
I'm waiting to see if he's a selfish childish brat or a usurper. And I'm waiting to see whether democracy can continue in the U.S when such a large portion of our country can be sold a flat earth level conspiracy theory. If Trump can deceive this many what happens when the next, more competent deceiver shows up?
Quote:he has somehow deceived (what feels like) half the country.
Dahlsim > 01-17-2021, 08:05 PM
(01-17-2021, 06:44 PM)fifteenth Wrote: I've followed what the judges have said about the evidence