2020-2021 AROUND the NBA: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

When I read your post I thought of role players. (All I can say is, sorry you misread what I said? Jrue and Kris are great players, they are not superstars, sorry if that burst anyone's bubble...) Not allstars.Pretty much a given that the Mavs would be great if they add 2-3 allstar level players. Give Luka the Bucks supporting cast and the result would probably be the same.

The Bucks didn't just come by that team, they built upon and developed it. We need to build upon and develop our team.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, looking at Phoenix, who is the top 10 player on their team? I know part of it is they made it through without much time missed like other teams that might have been more trouble if they had some key players. Still, they were the West representative team which accounts for something. 

Looking at Mia last year, the same might have been said about them as far as who is the top 10 player on that team? Just more reason to have a coach that adapts to and develops players instead of plugging and playing them into their system.

[Mavs2021]

Let´s not act like the Bucks only had one guy. Middleton was an allstar in the last two seasons. Averaged 24/8/5 in the playoffs. Holiday has been in the borderline allstar category for most of his career and made three all defense teams in the last four years. Averaged 17/6/9 in the playoffs. Brook Lopez used to be a legit first or second option. He is the alltime scoring leader for the Nets. It´s not like he lost any of his skills. He adjusted his game to help the team but when he was needed after the Giannis injury he carried the Bucks in game 5 against the Hawks. Not to mention that he is also one of the best rim protectors in the league. All defense 2nd team last season.
Add great role players like Tucker and DiVincenzo and that´s as good as it gets for a starting five in terms of overall talent. And I haven´t even mentioned bench guys like Connaughton or Portis that also played really good. Imagine if they don´t screw up and also add Bogdanovic.

To put this bluntly. Porzingis is about as good as Brook Lopez.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/1417861031490056203

[Branduil]

CANNOT agree with the sentiments above more!

Don't imitate other teams, look at yourself and play to YOUR unique strengths as a team!

While that's true, I don't think the Mavs really have many strengths except "Have Luka."


The Mavs haven't really tried to build around Luka yet. They tried to make Luka+KP the core, but it hasn't worked at all so far- mostly because of KP. The Mavs have to actually become some versions of themselves as "Luka's team" before they can even start to think about their best version.

[TXBamanut]

While that's true, I don't think the Mavs really have many strengths except "Have Luka."


The Mavs haven't really tried to build around Luka yet. They tried to make Luka+KP the core, but it hasn't worked at all so far- mostly because of KP. The Mavs have to actually become some versions of themselves as "Luka's team" before they can even start to think about their best version.

I completely disagreee.  I think KP was horribly misused this last year, and he's a better player than just about everyone here gives him credit for.  They moved from any kind of meaningful post up for him because of Haralabob and the metrics and gutted a big portion of his game.  If they ran half of the action that they ran to get Dirk free and clear on the post, he'd have had a much better year.

My take is they were moving him away from any postup, he pushed back, so Rick said "Here's the one play you can use to get in the post.  Slip screen and go or nothing." And that's what they ran, whether we had anyone who could make a timely entry pass or not...it was madness, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised was designed to get KP to stop wanting to postup.  Put a guy in a bad place, make sure he's unsuccessful and then say "see you can't do it."  But any person with a basketball brain that watches what they tried to do this last year can see it.

[hakeemfaan]

I completely disagreee.  I think KP was horribly misused this last year, and he's a better player than just about everyone here gives him credit for.  They moved from any kind of meaningful post up for him because of Haralabob and the metrics and gutted a big portion of his game.  If they ran half of the action that they ran to get Dirk free and clear on the post, he'd have had a much better year.

My take is they were moving him away from any postup, he pushed back, so Rick said "Here's the one play you can use to get in the post.  Slip screen and go or nothing." And that's what they ran, whether we had anyone who could make a timely entry pass or not...it was madness, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised was designed to get KP to stop wanting to postup.  Put a guy in a bad place, make sure he's unsuccessful and then say "see you can't do it."  But any person with a basketball brain that watches what they tried to do this last year can see it.

Bama I am in the minority here who agrees with you that KP was misused on offense. 

The issue though is that what gave KP that unicorn tag is being able to stretch the floor while also being a rim protecting defensive centerpiece. That component took a backseat last year. That is the main concern most here have with KP going forward.

[dirkfansince1998]

Bama I am in the minority here who agrees with you that KP was misused on offense. 

The issue though is that what gave KP that unicorn tag is being able to stretch the floor while also being a rim protecting defensive centerpiece. That component took a backseat last year. That is the main concern most here have with KP going forward.

Defense is obviously the main concern but I just don´t understand what some of you see on offense that makes you think that he is a good post player and should get more iso/midrange touches.
It´s not like he was a great post player in NY.This year the Mavs actually put him in a situation that lead to the best scoring efficiency of his career. All the talk about KP in the post reminds me of the madness after the Mavs signed DAJ when half of this board tried to convince me that he just wasn´t used the right way and could dominate in the paint.
If KP wants to get back into the NY role I can only hope that it will be for a different team. Not interested in guy that takes 5-10 iso midrange/face up jumpers on 40-45% FG with a low FTAr.

[hakeemfaan]

Defense is obviously the main concern but I just don´t understand what some of you see on offense that makes you think that he is a good post player and should get more iso/midrange touches.
It´s not like he was a great post player in NY.This year the Mavs actually put him in a situation that lead to the best scoring efficiency of his career. All the talk about KP in the post reminds me of the madness after the Mavs signed DAJ when half of this board tried to convince me that he just wasn´t used the right way and could dominate in the paint.
If KP wants to get back into the NY role I can only hope that it will be for a different team. Not interested in guy that takes 5-10 iso midrange/face up jumpers on 40-45% FG with a low FTAr.

We have had this conversation before. Who is asking for him to play exclusively in the post? There is no middle ground between playing in the post and jacking up 3s?  How about some high post action, some guards curling around him? Some weak side options where he has an option to cut?  


The problem is anytime this is said the diehard RC guys look at it as an attack on RC. First of all RC is not above criticism for  Also with now knowing everything that was going on who knows if this was the offense that RC wanted to run anyway.

[KillerLeft]

The problem is anytime this is said the diehard RC guys look at it as an attack on RC. First of all RC is not above criticism for  Also with now knowing everything that was going on who knows if this was the offense that RC wanted to run anyway.

I can't speak for dirkfan, but the above is not true in my case, though I am an RC fan. Two, separate issues. 

I simply do not believe Porzingis is capable of doing the things you describe efficiently, or in such a way that contributes to WINNING. I do NOT agree with you that he is good at those things. It's as simple as that.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Middleton and JRich might not be superstars, but they are top50 players in the league, if not better. Easy.

Middleton yes. JRich, not so much...

[dirkfansince1998]

We have had this conversation before. Who is asking for him to play exclusively in the post? There is no middle ground between playing in the post and jacking up 3s?  How about some high post action, some guards curling around him? Some weak side options where he has an option to cut?  


The problem is anytime this is said the diehard RC guys look at it as an attack on RC. First of all RC is not above criticism for  Also with now knowing everything that was going on who knows if this was the offense that RC wanted to run anyway.

You are right. We had this conversation before and just like before you aren´t adressing my point. I never mentioned RC. Just ignore him. What about NY. He was a mediocre post player. Mediocre midrange shooter. Take away the silly nickname and replace KP with a random player. Is it a smart move to give a player more shot attempts even though he cannot convert them on above league average efficiency?
I would agree with your point if KP would actually justify those touches with his percentages but that´s not the case. I am running those kind of plays for Durant or Dirk because both shoot 50% + from midrange. Not KP. A player that is closer to 40% from midrange.

[KillerLeft]

Is it a smart move to give a player more shot attempts even though he cannot convert them on above league average efficiency?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Let´s not act like the Bucks only had one guy. Middleton was an allstar in the last two seasons. Averaged 24/8/5 in the playoffs. Holiday has been in the borderline allstar category for most of his career and made three all defense teams in the last four years. Averaged 17/6/9 in the playoffs. Brook Lopez used to be a legit first or second option. He is the alltime scoring leader for the Nets. It´s not like he lost any of his skills. He adjusted his game to help the team but when he was needed after the Giannis injury he carried the Bucks in game 5 against the Hawks. Not to mention that he is also one of the best rim protectors in the league. All defense 2nd team last season.
Add great role players like Tucker and DiVincenzo and that´s as good as it gets for a starting five in terms of overall talent. And I haven´t even mentioned bench guys like Connaughton or Portis that also played really good. Imagine if they don´t screw up and also add Bogdanovic.

They didn't need Bogdanovic. They have DiVincenzo who was coming into his own before he got hurt.

[SleepingHero]

I simply do not believe Porzingis is capable of doing the things you describe efficiently, or in such a way that contributes to WINNING.

I'm just wondering how you come to that conclusion when the past 2 years our best lineups +/- wise has always included KP.

[dirkfansince1998]

I'm just wondering how you come to that conclusion when the past 2 years our best lineups +/- wise has always included KP.

Thing about the lineup numbers you mention is that KP wasn´t used in the role that @"KillerLeft"  opposed. The argument was about KP in a more featured role (iso, post up, play calls). Not about his overall impact on offense. Overall KP is clearly a net positive on offense. He spaces the floor and can finish in the paint.
I would happily keep KP if he can improve on defense and is willing to accept a lesser role on offense. Even more if he learns how to set screens and starts to roll to the rim. Basically a Brook Lopez 2.0. I don´t want to see more midrange bricks, post ups or attempts to create of the dribble. That´s what leads to shooting percentages in the low 40s and TS% in the low 50s.

[KillerLeft]

I'm just wondering how you come to that conclusion when the past 2 years our best lineups +/- wise has always included KP.

Yes, doing the things he was asked to do.

Hakeem is making the argument he should do MORE, while dirkfan and others are pointing out that he has never really been efficient doing those things. 

These are (VERY clearly) two, separate conversations.

[IamDougieFresh]

Rank 1 Bane fan pre draft...

Rank 1 Dwight hater...

Rank 1 Maxi/DFS fan...

Being right this much is exhausting!

I need some respect around here!