Boban watch. was 2020 playoff Mavericks 1 Chance has almost No Chance to be Used

[dirkfansince1998]

The sample size is still small but it should be mentioned that Boban isn´t as dominant on offense this season. Career low TS. 55.6% is below league average.
Career low OBPM. Career low FTr. Same for the defensive numbers. Career low DBPM. Not a single block in over 100 minutes.

Not sure if he is rapidly declining or just going through the same problems that the whole team is facing right now (bad shooting, less space in the paint...) but based on what I have seen from him he is slower than last year. Just not able to get up and down the floor in a fast paced league.
The Mavs already play at a slow pace and right now that isn´t working. Slowing it down even more to give Boban touches is probably not the best option.

[MrGoat]

The sample size is still small but it should be mentioned that Boban isn´t as dominant on offense this season. Career low TS. 55.6% is below league average.
Career low OBPM. Career low FTr. Same for the defensive numbers. Career low DBPM. Not a single block in over 100 minutes.

Not sure if he is rapidly declining or just going through the same problems that the whole team is facing right now (bad shooting, less space in the paint...) but based on what I have seen from him he slower than last year. Just not able to get up and down the floor in a fast paced league.
The Mavs already play at a slow pace and right now that isn´t working. Slowing it down even more to give Boban touches is probably not the best option.

How's he supposed to get into a rhythm if he barely gets on the court?

He is the team's leader in net rating in his limited minutes so there's that

[Dahlsim]

The sample size is still small but it should be mentioned that Boban isn´t as dominant on offense this season. Career low TS. 55.6% is below league average.
Career low OBPM. Career low FTr. Same for the defensive numbers. Career low DBPM. Not a single block in over 100 minutes.

Not sure if he is rapidly declining or just going through the same problems that the whole team is facing right now (bad shooting, less space in the paint...) but based on what I have seen from him he is slower than last year. Just not able to get up and down the floor in a fast paced league. 
The Mavs already play at a slow pace and right now that isn´t working. Slowing it down even more to give Boban touches is probably not the best option.

I grant you that its possible at 32 he could decline. Any player could get age downturn at that point although with his style of game he could easily play well into his mid thirties playing in the paint, getting rebounds and hitting midrange shots and free throws. 
That's his game, however it looks far more likely that getting spotty unpredictable and tiny minutes creates a sample size that doesn't mean much.  
In the minutes he does play its not as  though he's getting offense run for him like a KP or any other Mav big really. 

The link I gave was efficiency based on a game from Jan. 2021.  Generally speaking it doesn't matter if he plays well or not, Carlisle has his own reasons to give out the DNP-CD no matter how well he might play in a previous game.

[Dahlsim]

How's he supposed to get into a rhythm if he barely gets on the court?

He is the team's leader in net rating in his limited minutes so there's that

Yeah, you might think that would matter to his minutes, but it never has.  I think its as Stan Van Gundy said, NBA coaches are geared to think defense first and Carlisle looks at game and would prefer to run out a defense 1st big, even though the Mavs are not exactly winning games on defense. 

Consider what NBA Coach Stan Van Gundy had to say on the subject.

Boban Marjanovic had a great night in Dallas’ win against New Orleans with 15 points and 16 rebounds which was his best performances this season.

After the game, his former coach Stan Van Gundy praised Boban and noted that one of his ‘lessons’ from being the Detroit Pistons coach was that he should’ve used the Serbian big man a lot more:
"Look, I feel like one of the things coming out of my time in Detroit – you always evaluate yourself – I should’ve played him more. I really should’ve. And I think there are other coaches that would say the same thing," Van Gundy said on NBA TV and explained further.
"As the coach, you tend to think about the defensive end of the floor all the time. And he can be a problem there but the man’s unstoppable and unselfish and the whole thing… I wish I would’ve played him more."

Comment on this topic.

[Dahlsim]

Boban watch:  

Looking at the upcoming Mavs free agent list.  2021 Bobi looks like the odd man out as a big on this roster in this system.  Looks relegated to token cameo minutes as he's barely even getting called on for any possible favorable matchup minutes which Carlisle is known for.  

Thinking Bobi at 32 years old may be staring at the end of his useful career as an actual player unless a team/coach is found that thinks they can make his unusual talent work in todays league.   If he and his agent are ok with a JJ Berea type locker room cheerleader contract then maybe he extends his playing career?  
He can also stay on Hollywood speed dial with Keanu Reeves, so there's that. 

Dallas Mavericks


       2021

• Tyler Bey (restricted) 
  
• Willie Cauley-Stein (team) 
  
• Tim Hardaway Jr 
  
• Nate Hinton (restricted) 
  
• James Johnson  
  
• Boban Marjanovic  
  
• Josh Richardson (player) 
  
  

       2022

• Jalen Brunson 
  
• Trey Burke (player) 
  
• Luka Doncic (restricted) 
  
• Dorian Finney-Smith
  

[Bayliss]

They should have kept Mejri.  He has the footspeed and defensive mobility to get spot minutes as a center.

[StepBackJay]

Boban needs to Go-ban.

[Dahlsim]

They should have kept Mejri.  He has the footspeed and defensive mobility to get spot minutes as a center.

I was a big fan of Mejri too.    

Salah isn't as talented offensively as Boban but defensively people forget how he contributed, when he could get minutes.  Mejri similar to Boban might have a big game and find himself getting little to no minutes the next game.  Centers suffer the matchup fate in the Dallas system, more than any other position. 

Mejri, Burke lead Mavericks past Grizzlies 129-127 in OT 

Trey Burke scored the most points for the Dallas Mavericks, but Salah Mejri’s were the most important.

Mejri made the final basket of regulation and scored the first seven points in overtime en route to a career-high 19 as the Dallas Mavericks defeated the Memphis Grizzlies 129-127 on Sunday night.
He delivered those nine crucial points in a 2:22 span. Mejri also finished with nine rebounds and a season-best four blocks. His scoring burst early in the extra period was enough that — despite a couple of late rallies — the Grizzlies were unable to overtake Dallas in overtime. Burke finished with 24 points, 14 in the fourth quarter and OT.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'm not sure WCS's spot on next year's roster is a sure thing either.  He wouldn't be here this year if Gasol had agreed to take out money.  The way the contract is structure, we have control of but no obligation to Willie.


Quote:
Dallas Mavericks


       2021

• Tyler Bey (restricted) 
  
  
• Willie Cauley-Stein (team) 
  
  
• Tim Hardaway Jr 
  
  
• Nate Hinton (restricted) 
  
  
• James Johnson  
  
  
• Boban Marjanovic  
  
  
• Josh Richardson (player) 
  
  

       2022

• Jalen Brunson 
  
  
• Trey Burke (player) 
  
  
• Luka Doncic (restricted) 
  
  
• Dorian Finney-Smith
  

[Dahlsim]

I'm not sure WCS's spot on next year's roster is a sure thing either.  He wouldn't be here this year if Gasol had agreed to take out money.  The way the contract is structure, we have control of but no obligation to Willie.


Quote:
Dallas Mavericks


       2021

• Tyler Bey (restricted) 
  
  
• Willie Cauley-Stein (team) 
  
  
• Tim Hardaway Jr 
  
  
• Nate Hinton (restricted) 
  
  
• James Johnson  
  
  
• Boban Marjanovic  
  
  
• Josh Richardson (player) 
  
  

       2022

• Jalen Brunson 
  
  
• Trey Burke (player) 
  
  
• Luka Doncic (restricted) 
  
  
• Dorian Finney-Smith
  

Hmm, that's an interesting point, thanks Dan.  I've got a few extended thoughts on this subject that Willie Cauley-Stein brings to the surface for me.  I had thought RC might have found his man in WCS but looks like maybe not. 

I'm not sure WCS's spot on next year's roster is a sure thing either.  He wouldn't be here this year if Gasol had agreed to take out money. 

If the older versions of this forum were all still up people could see that I've been most interested in the way Rick Carlisle and the NBA in general handle the 5 position during the 3 point and "small ball" revolution.  I say small ball because the NBA players in general remain anything but small.  
Its really been the front line and especially center position that has been changed most drastically in terms of its usage and impact on teams.  

I have commented heavily on what Rick Carlisle, an otherwise brilliant coach, does at the 5 position and front line every since Tyson Chandler left post Mavs 2011 championship.  I think's its been the primary weak spot in the Mav's system as it can differentiate your team in a league where everyone is playing the same pace and space 3 point game.   

If everyone's playing the same and you know your shooters are not as good as the opponents outside the arc, then why would try and beat them at the same game?   Its a systemic Mavs problem imo.  If they are hot that day shooting they can win, if they cold they can't even hold on to a big lead with time running out.   

I said all that because if Carlisle has a center than can play his ideal role for a center then his offense is fantastic and his defense is passable.  The Mavs in his system can be great.  When the center can provide just the right mix of offensive threat, rebounding and be acceptable to RC on defense, then his Mavs can shine. 

Problem is, very few centers can do that to RC satisfaction. 
Tyson Chandler with a strong center trio of Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi was the perfect storm for the Dirk/Kidd led Mavs in a RC system. 

Recent seasons we saw that a healthy Dwight Powell was really hitting that ideal mix of scorer and versatile defender that is ideal for RC.  Then came the injury.    So now one might think WCS would fit the profile or that KP at 5 might be great or that Maxi Kleber is ideal.  
So far, we're not seeing that front line production to support Luka and his wings and it looks like they are not sure which center can fill the role well enough to counter the competition.  

Just look at the West competition by comparision and what they do at the center positions.  2 teams have won championships using centers that struggled to even get minutes in Rick Carlisle's Dallas system! 

Looking the Western Conference the rosters and the coaching staffs seem to be getting the better of Carlisle Mavs consistently unless his 5 man is hitting jackpot from 3-point land and playing good in general. IMO RC is not creative enough to use a talent like Boban who is limited but elite in specific areas.  Boban could without question in my mind have added a few W's to this Mavs roster just by helping to hold on to a few big leads but Carlisle just doesn't think that way. 

WCS is inconsistent and hasn't become the next Dwight Powell yet let alone Tyson Chandler. The Mavs have to get a center playing to fit Carlisle's ideal and I think Luka is great enough to use any type of talented 5 you give him.

[Dahlsim]

in 13 minutes, end result is +13 highest for the team.  What's wrong with this picture?   Criminal failure to utilize this talent continues ...   

[color=var(--yt-spec-text-primary)]Hypatia TV[/color]
I do not undesrtand. Stein for 24 minuts: 4pt 4rb 1blck, Boban for 13minuts: 10pts 8rb 1asist. And this happends again again and again. Stein is nice guy and good player but Boban should play mutch more?.

Hm, Boban do not looks like somone who can not play 10 or 15 minuts per game and it is it. I am 100% sure, he can play 20 minutes per game without any problems. In Europe he played whole games without any problems. Yep, he has been younger but he is 30 now, not 40 or 45?

[dirkfansince1998]

Reality check for all Boban fans (including me). Difficult to identify the worst big of the game because all three played terrible but it was obvious that Boban was completly outmatched on both ends.

[cow]

Washed

[Dahlsim]

Reality check for all Boban fans (including me). Difficult to identify the worst big of the game because all three played terrible but it was obvious that Boban was completely outmatched on both ends.

Didn't get to watch the Dallas/Philly game much last night beyond the first 5 minutes or so.  I recorded it and will have to go back and watch it. 

As a Boban fan  like yourself my thought from the beginning was that this was going to be a tough game Boban. 

1) Embiid.  This was a start against a beast of a center and a bad matchup. Having a legit MVP season, Joel is one of very few men big enough to play some real defense on Marjanovic.  

2) Embiid.  Unlike a great center such as Jokic or other centers, Joel Embiid is also big and extremely mobile and he's a centerpiece of the team whereas by comparision Boban has been barely playing and is suddenly thrust into the starting role. 

As far as the little I saw so far, I thought Boban looked like he came into the game very focused on playing better defense.  He actually did a good job there in his minutes it appears.  Offensively, I want to go back and see what happened.   3-11 is a small sample size in one game and not even that unusual for elite offensive players on small attempts, however we're used to seeing much better numbers consistently from Boban. 

Not sure how much of it was the really strong defense the Mavs faced last night including Joel and how much might be some fading skills of Boban? 

Here's what Mavsluvr wrote: 

Boban had 17 minutes, grabbed 12 rebounds, and made an impact defensively with his big body clogging the paint. However, he was surprisingly ineffective offensively, going 3-11 from the court and scoring only 7 points. James Johnson filled in for 15 minutes, and had 3 points on 1-5 shooting. Powell played 10 minutes and had 6 points (all at the line), 1 rebound, and 2 turnovers. He was just unable to stand up to Embiid and Howard — not nearly strong enough, and besides, he inexplicably blew a couple of dunks.

[dirkfansince1998]

I don´t want to single out Boban because WCS and Powell looked just as bad. Boban at least made some impact on the defensive board. Big problem is that non of the bigs is of any use in the pick and roll. WCS combines bad timing and "Dampier" hands. He also is a terrible screener. Powell has no lift and lost his finishing ability. Boban has no mobility and cannot beat the opposing big to the rim or at least get a deep position. They just clog the lane and basically act like an additional defender for the opponent.
Problem with the matchup was that Boban (despite his size) is more of a skill player. Embiid and Howard bullied him. He couldn´t take advantage of his post game because he wasn´t getting a deep position. Both 76ers bigs boxed him out or bumped him of his spot.
Against the 76ers with Howard and Embiid he simply has no matchup advantage on offense but is still a liablity on defense.

Might just be me but the numbers actually confirm it. Feels like Boban isn´t as good as he was last season (same is obviously true for most Mavs). Not as efficient on offense. Missing some easy shots around the rim. Fumbling away easy paint catches or rebounds.

Good example: Boban with 3 off rebounds because he isn´t able to finish a uncontested layup.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=31&GameID=0022000498&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Marjanovic%20%20Putback%20Layup%20(2%20PTS)&sct=plot

[Dahlsim]

I don´t want to single out Boban because WCS and Powell looked just as bad. Boban at least made some impact on the defensive board. Big problem is that non of the bigs is of any use in the pick and roll. WCS combines bad timing and "Dampier" hands. He also is a terrible screener. Powell has no lift and lost his finishing ability. Boban has no mobility and cannot beat the opposing big to the rim or at least get a deep position. They just clog the lane and basically act like an additional defender for the opponent.
Problem with the matchup was that Boban (despite his size) is more of a skill player. Embiid and Howard bullied him. He couldn´t take advantage of his post game because he wasn´t getting a deep position. Both 76ers bigs boxed him out or bumped him of his spot.
Against the 76ers with Howard and Embiid he simply has no matchup advantage on offense but is still a liablity on defense.

Might just be me but the numbers actually confirm it. Feels like Boban isn´t as good as he was last season (same is obviously true for most Mavs). Not as efficient on offense. Missing some easy shots around the rim. Fumbling away easy paint catches or rebounds.

Good example: Boban with 3 off rebounds because he isn´t able to finish a uncontested layup.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=31&GameID=0022000498&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Marjanovic%20%20Putback%20Layup%20(2%20PTS)&sct=plot

Good stuff.   I'm still planning to go watch my recording so will be interesting to see. 

I can see that Bobi may be falling off but at the same time, I also find it hard to draw any conclusions off the inconsistent minutes, tiny sample size and after thought usage that he's getting in Dallas. 

In this case, throw him in the starting role against the best 2-way center in the game. As I said it looked to me like the coach told him they needed him to play strong defense and rebound.  He kind of did that really.   I mean in 17 minutes he had more rebounds than all the other centers. 

They don't use him as an offensive force to play off of so speak.  Missing dunks though, makes me think mentally he was pressing.  
I mean let's be honest, Boban shouldn't miss dunks when he's 50 let alone 32, so that has to be mental. 
This is why I've said if he and his agent actually care about his basketball career anymore other than cheerleading, they should be looking for a team that might want him to really play.