haveitall > 08-13-2020, 08:31 PM
Dahlsim > 08-13-2020, 09:50 PM
(08-13-2020, 08:31 PM)haveitall Wrote: Previously I have made a statement as to why I will not watch the nba this season and why I do not support BLM. Here are a few articles that show how problematic these protests have been. Do ethics matter to sports fans? They do for me because I am against injustice and mistreatment of people which right now is aimed at people who chose police as their occupation.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/chicago-lo...ds-inside/
https://nypost.com/article/chicago-cop-r...pe-report/
haveitall > 08-14-2020, 12:45 AM
(08-13-2020, 09:50 PM)Dahlsim Wrote:(08-13-2020, 08:31 PM)haveitall Wrote: Previously I have made a statement as to why I will not watch the nba this season and why I do not support BLM. Here are a few articles that show how problematic these protests have been. Do ethics matter to sports fans? They do for me because I am against injustice and mistreatment of people which right now is aimed at people who chose police as their occupation.
https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/chicago-lo...ds-inside/
https://nypost.com/article/chicago-cop-r...pe-report/
As a "black life" myself, I feel you. The support many express for BLM is more for the slogan and what it directly implies i.e. a cry against blatant race based discrimination such as seen in some particularly visible cases.
Most sane people don't appear to really support or even pay attention to these moves to defund and attack police officers. It's very unfortunate that these things are being conflated and even more tragic that whole segments of the media simply don't cover it. The result is entire portions of american population don't really see the same news stories at other segments.
Much of the country couldn't accurately recognize the extent of what is happening to police departments and officers because its not being covered on news outlets they watch and follow.
Dahlsim > 08-14-2020, 11:41 AM
Quote:I actually see and hear plenty of black people who are horrified by the violence and looting.
haveitall > 08-14-2020, 07:59 PM
(08-14-2020, 11:41 AM)Dahlsim Wrote:100% agree.Quote:I actually see and hear plenty of black people who are horrified by the violence and looting.
Right, which is why most of the news media makes sure they don't see it much if they see it at all for the ones that only watch the left biased channels and media outlets. Those are the majority of outlets, including the entertainment complex of which the NBA is very much a part. The NBA is carrying the anti racism message front and center.
Do you see much or any NBA campaign against related looting of business owners and their violence against citizens (including black citizens) and police officers and their families?
Many millions of people just don't see it much, so they think clearly it must not be that big of a problem.![]()
Those in the public that don't see the looting and horrific violence much, don't know the extent of the problem (unless it gets to them personally :-0 ) and they don't really connect it to BLM.
Dahlsim > 08-19-2020, 02:47 PM
Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”
“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory.
fifteenth > 08-20-2020, 05:50 PM
(08-19-2020, 02:47 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: On this topic, in case anyone missed this ...
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac Only Player to Not Kneel with BLM, Sites Gospel
Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”
“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory.
Dahlsim > 08-20-2020, 10:11 PM
(08-20-2020, 05:50 PM)fifteenth Wrote:(08-19-2020, 02:47 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: On this topic, in case anyone missed this ...
NBA Player Jonathan Isaac Only Player to Not Kneel with BLM, Sites Gospel
Quote:“For me,” Isaac explained, “black lives are supported through the Gospel, all lives are supported through the Gospel.”
“My life has been supported by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is made in the image of God and we all share in His glory.
Wow, wow. This is complicated to comment on!
Isaac is a stud. It's not easy stand out like that. Well done Jonathan Isaac. I support your message.
The complicated thing is that I absolutely support the phrase "Black Lives Matter". Of course all lives matter, but sometimes there is a need to heal a wound or right a wrong.
So I'm going to take the possibly odd position of supporting the guys kneeling and the guy standing!
fifteenth > 08-21-2020, 10:14 AM
(08-20-2020, 10:11 PM)Dahlsim Wrote: I see the rub coming between the general message that is so well represented by the phrase vs. a closer examination of the organization going by that name and the entirety of what they stand for.
mtrot > 08-26-2020, 06:28 PM
haveitall > 08-26-2020, 11:12 PM
(08-26-2020, 06:28 PM)mtrot Wrote: My biggest concern is that the most famous and outspoken player in the league, who seems to have a wide swath of our population believing his comments, seems to be either be not very bright, or just deliberately disingenuous. Lebron is just continually inflaming things and making things worse and worse. He comments on situations immediately after they occur and before all the facts come out. And he pretends that the few horrible incidents that have occurred, and yes there have been such incidents, represent an epidemic of such events in the US, while in reality they are extremely rare.
In comparison to the number of these travesties, how many black lives have been saved by having the police presence in the US? It could be argued that hundreds of innocent black lives in Chicago would have been saved if they had MORE police on the ground. I just wish Lebron would be more circumspect and look at the actual facts before making unfounded and presumptuous pronouncements about specific incidents and police in general in the US.
ThunderMav > 08-27-2020, 08:22 PM
Dahlsim > 08-28-2020, 06:55 AM
(08-26-2020, 11:12 PM)haveitall Wrote: You can have any political view or be of any color but how can you not be outrage over this? No one not one person in the nba except Jonathan Isaac has denounced this.
https://mynorthwest.com/2114190/rantz-ri...aled-door/
(08-26-2020, 06:28 PM)mtrot Wrote: My biggest concern is that the most famous and outspoken player in the league, who seems to have a wide swath of our population believing his comments, seems to be either be not very bright, or just deliberately disingenuous. Lebron is just continually inflaming things and making things worse and worse. He comments on situations immediately after they occur and before all the facts come out. And he pretends that the few horrible incidents that have occurred, and yes there have been such incidents, represent an epidemic of such events in the US, while in reality they are extremely rare.
In comparison to the number of these travesties, how many black lives have been saved by having the police presence in the US? It could be argued that hundreds of innocent black lives in Chicago would have been saved if they had MORE police on the ground. I just wish Lebron would be more circumspect and look at the actual facts before making unfounded and presumptuous pronouncements about specific incidents and police in general in the US.
To me there are two things going on:
1. Problems with the police and their bias/corruption. This is an important issue and should be addressed otherwise you turn into Russia where people prepare money when stopped by the police. Defunding them will actually make things worse as honest cops will be squeezed out.
2. Socialism and civil unrest, aka angry burning mob. Here is basically a group of people who don't have much don't have jobs and are angry and ready to take it out on anyone.
The country is a powder keg and the corporations (such as the nba) are selling out to the socialists.
mtrot > 08-30-2020, 09:49 PM
fifteenth > 08-30-2020, 11:49 PM
(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging. It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better. If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated.
What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law? And to stop resisting arrest? And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs? What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard? The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't. It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks.
The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.
Dahlsim > 08-31-2020, 06:37 PM
(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging. It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better. If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated.
What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law? And to stop resisting arrest? And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs? What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard? The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't. It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks.
The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.
Quote:So it's a mistake to say they don't do the things you ask for.
haveitall > 09-01-2020, 03:56 PM
(08-30-2020, 11:49 PM)fifteenth Wrote:I disagree. I don't think athletes do enough. Nor do the CEO's. For the most part the amount donated is paltry. Its all publicity stunts. As far as blame we can start with the idolization of athletes that the NBA sells. Athletes, especially basketball are sold as the dream job to urban youth, a very tiny portion of which will be successful enough to make money as professionals. Regular jobs which bring a lot more wealth to the community such as doctors, lawyers, accountants are looked down upon, or just no popular. Which brings to mind an interview with Derozan where he said that hed be in jail or dead if it wasn't for basketball. Well for each Derozan there are 1000's of people just like him, in jail or dead. If the NBA truly thinks black lives matter, than find a way to make life better for kids in the hood. What they do is perpetuate athlete worship while giving away a few breadcrumbs.(08-30-2020, 09:49 PM)mtrot Wrote: Here is part of my problem with Lebron and the NBA and media BLM messaging. It's directed at the very people(the police) who can do the least about making things better. If young black men continue to widely engage in illegal activity, and then resist and fight the police when they are confronted, I don't see how police shootings of young black men can be eliminated.
What would it hurt Lebron to, perhaps just one time, urge young black men to stop breaking the law? And to stop resisting arrest? And to stay off of fentanyl and other illegal and dangerous drugs? What would it hurt to encourage them to stay in school, study hard, and work hard? The league could release all sorts of positive public messaging around this, but they don't. It's as if the NBA is of the opinion that the only solution to this situation is basically for the police to not enforce the laws against blacks.
The NBA is in a very strong position to be able to encourage young men in a very positive direction, but they show zero interest in doing so.
mtrot, if you'd like to say that the NBA should do more to help black communities deal with problems that plague them, then I don't think that's unreasonable. But I have two comments about that.
1. NBA players and black athletes in other sports are in the fight and trying to help black communities with problems other than police violence against black Americans. They fund schools, they build gyms and activity centers that will house after school programs, they speak at schools, they fund scholarships, they mentor. So it's a mistake to say they don't do the things you ask for.
2. I believe it's also a mistake to blame violence towards black folks on other social challenges that exist in the black community. Those two things shouldn't be conflated.
I have more thoughts before it's too late. Maybe tomorrow.
ItsGoTime > 09-01-2020, 09:58 PM
Dahlsim > 09-02-2020, 01:44 AM
(09-01-2020, 09:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: ....
We need accountability in this nation. Our police force has run for way too long without enough accountability. Our politicians have gone far too far without any accountability. After watching that video Dahlsim posted, BLM seems like they haven't been given enough accountability to stop the snowball that is rolling. NRA has no accountability.
We need to get people into office that will boil all these grievances down to specifics so we can get to a state of accountability.
....
Accountability and specifics.
ItsGoTime > 09-02-2020, 10:26 AM
(09-02-2020, 01:44 AM)Dahlsim Wrote:I'm so against both parties right now cause all both sides are doing is causing confusion. I don't like the way any of this is going. (Edit: I need to lump the media into this rant who is doing us absolutely no favors and needs to be held accountable too!!!)(09-01-2020, 09:58 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: ....
We need accountability in this nation. Our police force has run for way too long without enough accountability. Our politicians have gone far too far without any accountability. After watching that video Dahlsim posted, BLM seems like they haven't been given enough accountability to stop the snowball that is rolling. NRA has no accountability.
We need to get people into office that will boil all these grievances down to specifics so we can get to a state of accountability.
....
Accountability and specifics.
Agree 100%. That's actually what election time is supposed to be for accountability. The system only gives us a binary choice in the end but people do have the ability to hold leaders responsible.
Those elected leaders are the ones that get hired to spend full time hours working on the specifics of solutions.
Everyday Americans realistically aren't going to have that time or take out that much time to figure out specific solutions even if they have the time. Its not going to happen.
So we the people are responsible for holding the right people accountable. That's why there's so much noise right now in the news about who is actually responsible for the carnage happening in so many US cities. If we hold the wrong political leaders accountable then there won't be solutions.