Game 18 Dirkie Thread: KYRIE!

[ballsrchr]

First quarter...maybe even the first half...the Mavs played like a tired team on a back to back. Lo and behold! They were discombobulated all the way around. But they kept plugging away at it, every once in awhile hitting on all cylinders, finally putting the game away.

When the tale is told I can actually see 5 players, Washington, Marshall, Kyrie, Hardy, and DINWIDDIE! who deserve at least honorable mention in the Dirkie Award sweepstakes. Kleber and Gafford at least played some important minutes as well.

But, when we get down to the nitty gritty I'm gonna give my Dirkie to Kyrie. He kept chugging away and finally broke it open. This guy--man--my hat's off to him. What a team mate, what a player...

[OBX Maverick]

Dinwiddie got hot for sure. I guess it made up for the 0/9 from three last night. However, Ky personally provided the late game separation when he went on the heater. Impressive game by him.

Just hope the whole team doesn’t come down with whatever bug is going through the team. I saw Kyrie taking a couple sniffles in the 4th

[Scott41theMavs]

I have to admit I had to eat a little bit of crow on Dinwiddie - as in, maybe he isn't *completely* cooked - but not enough to give him Kai's Dirkie.

[SleepingHero]

@MFollowill
In four seasons in New Orleans, Naji Marshall had 5 games with 20 or more points. He's had 3 in the last 4 days and 4 already this season. His three point shooting has come to life on this road trip too...hitting 8-of-12. Definitely a hooper!

[ThisIStheYear]

Sneaky good win considering the players missing games and the schedule. Many contributors tonight. My back of the envelope statistical model liked Gafford, but then there’s that negative plus/minus. Din was right there too, so I voted for him. Kyrie played a gutty game and rallied the troops. He gets consideration for leadership. Naji is worthy too with his efficient scoring. The Mavs were a bit turnover plagued, except Din, so that was my decider. Nice bounce back.

[JamesConway912]

Voted for Kyrie due to his 4th quarter heroics. He’s such an incredible player, I really hope he makes the allstar game this season. He’s very deserving of that Imo and has been as durable as it gets so far this season.

Marshall with his usual great two way play. Now he also knocks down his threes. You can’t rave enough about him. 

Gafford played very well Imo, so did Dinwiddie who took on the scoring load during some
important stretches.

Maxi Kleber also with the best game of his season. Hopefully there’s more to come of that.

One guy to knock: I’m sorry but Hardy REALLY needs to clean up his play. Game starts: he can’t get it to PJ on the postup then drives to the rim and just throws the ball into the standings. After that he had countless more horrendous mistakes and turnovers. He’s almost exclusively responsible for the terrible start to the game. He answered with some shotmaking but efficiency-wise he didn’t set the world on fire and the turnovers just continued to pile up throughout the game. He’s THE disappointment of the season so far Imo. If you look at his impact stats he’s hurting the team significantly out there and it fits the eye test. He’s still a terrible PnR player and not nearly a good enough iso player to get his style of play to work. We’re almost 20
games in, he needs to stop playing like crap.

On that front: good that they went with Gortman for a short stretch. Wasn’t involved a lot offensively but I’d continue to throw him in there every once in a while. None of the backup guards have done enough to be irreplaceable so far this year.

[JamesConway912]

BTW: what is the story on Bogdanovic this year? He’s been very productive off the bench the last years so far he only played im five games. Whenever I see him and I remember the flamethrower he always brings in FIBA competition I can’t help but get the Goran Dragic-syndrome and think „that dude can’t end his career without playing for the Mavs.“

Right now he’d be a exactly what we need off the bench. Skilled 13-15ppg guy who can play on and off the ball, shoot as well as create and just doesn’t trip over his owen feet all the time. He’d be a blessing here. Any reliable bench guard would.

I’d try hard to creat JAZMANIA until the trade deadline but if it doesn’t happen that’s the way I’m looking to make a move. He’d fit like a glove next to Marshall here off the bench.

[Mavs2021]

Voted for Kyrie due to his 4th quarter heroics. He’s such an incredible player, I really hope he makes the allstar game this season. He’s very deserving of that Imo and has been as durable as it gets so far this season.

Marshall with his usual great two way play. Now he also knocks down his threes. You can’t rave enough about him. 

Gafford played very well Imo, so did Dinwiddie who took on the scoring load during some
important stretches.

Maxi Kleber also with the best game of his season. Hopefully there’s more to come of that.

One guy to knock: I’m sorry but Hardy REALLY needs to clean up his play. Game starts: he can’t get it to PJ on the postup then drives to the rim and just throws the ball into the standings. After that he had countless more horrendous mistakes and turnovers. He’s almost exclusively responsible for the terrible start to the game. He answered with some shotmaking but efficiency-wise he didn’t set the world on fire and the turnovers just continued to pile up throughout the game. He’s THE disappointment of the season so far Imo. If you look at his impact stats he’s hurting the team significantly out there and it fits the eye test. He’s still a terrible PnR player and not nearly a good enough iso player to get his style of play to work. We’re almost 20
games in, he needs to stop playing like crap.

On that front: good that they went with Gortman for a short stretch. Wasn’t involved a lot offensively but I’d continue to throw him in there every once in a while. None of the backup guards have done enough to be irreplaceable so far this year.

The heroics by Hardy in the 2nd quarter and Dinwiddie in the 3rd quarter were what enabled Kyrie to have a game to play for in the 4th quarter.

People are overcritical of Hardy, cause his mistakes look really ugly, but always overlook the good. He was 6-11 from 2pt range in this game. He had a team high seven FT attempts. Hardy also had a team high three steals.

I´d also like him to clean up some of his horrible mistakes, but you know how he can do that as a young player? He can become Josh Green. Stand in the corner and take two shots per game.

[KillerLeft]

On that front: good that they went with Gortman for a short stretch. Wasn’t involved a lot offensively but I’d continue to throw him in there every once in a while. None of the backup guards have done enough to be irreplaceable so far this year.

Agree, and if I'm Hardy, I'm legitimately seeing Gortman over my shoulder just a bit. He made almost no statistical impact on the game, but I thought he play engaged and energetically on both sides, made the right pass a couple of times and that move he made to get that almost buzzer-beating shot off looked pretty good to me. He's an intriguing player, for sure, and Hardy has just been so up and down. I'm pretty bummed about that because I was hoping this would be his breakout season. There's still time, but he has been a disappointment, so far.

[KillerLeft]

The heroics by Hardy in the 2nd quarter and Dinwiddie in the 3rd quarter were what enabled Kyrie to have a game to play for in the 4th quarter.

People are overcritical of Hardy, cause his mistakes look really ugly, but always overlook the good. He was 6-11 from 2pt range in this game. He had a team high seven FT attempts. Hardy also had a team high three steals.

I´d also like him to clean up some of his horrible mistakes, but you know how he can do that as a young player? He can become Josh Green. Stand in the corner and take two shots per game.

I understand your point, especially the part about Josh Green. I just don't know that it's fair to say Hardy deserves much more time, at this point. I agree that the flashes of talent are there to see, plainly, and I'm still pulling for him. Maybe it's a little too early to say this, even, but piggy-backing off of your point, maybe creeping juuuuust a little more into that Josh Green mentality might be a good thing for him. Nobody wants him to stand in the corner and take two shots, but limiting the moves he tries in games for a while, just until he masters them, might not be the end of the world. He's one of the more prone to over-driving players I've ever seen. He's got so many moves and counter moves, but it feels like he's guessing how deep into his bag he'll need to go BEFORE the play starts, rather than reacting to how the defense plays him. When he guesses right, it's magical, but when he doesn't he looks inept.

[Smitty]

"Poll: Who played above expectations?"

Dinwiddie, if we're to answer the poll question directly.

Kyrie did what Kyrie does in the 4th. Naji is starting to get too consistently good to be the answer to the Dirkie poll question.

Dinwiddie went from everyone wanting to cut him from the team 24 hours ago, to being one of the major reasons this team pulled off the upset on this B2B.

[SleepingHero]

This was one of the guttiest wins of the year. 2nd night of a back to back. Down basically everyone to sickness and injury, yet the Mavs found a way to win. Plus, if this game is any more confirmation of Kidd just not giving a shit in the regular season, he was still finding ways to experiment this game with Kyrie/Hardy/Dinwiddie lineups in the 4th quarter….

Hardy had a not so stellar start to the game but found a way to score and carry the team through the 1st half. He really is a fantastic scorer. He has evolved into a pretty fantastic 3 level scorer. Yet I’m not so convinced he can work in a system where he has to pass the ball to anyone else. Some games he looks like the 2nd coming of Steve Nash, then this game where he had 3 first quarter turnovers and 6 total overall… yeeesh. That alone disqualifies him for the dirkie. Solid performance but nothing spectacular


Dinwiddie with the bounce backs of all bounce backs. 22pts on 6-11 shooting after shooting that putrid line in Miami the previous night. The Mavs looked DOA as every time they made a mini run the, the Hawks kept stacking a lead. That is, until Dinwiddie caught fire and had a scorching hot run of 3 straight 3s in the middle of the 3rd to put the Mavs within 1. That was all the Mavs needed to stick with the Hawks and put them in position to win. Kidd really had no choice but to run with Dinwiddie this game, unlike in Miami. Also unlike in Miami, Dinwiddie delivered big tonight. I actually disliked how much Dinwiddie was in the game, especially in the 4th where I thought Naji should’ve been in. But Dinwiddie had a solid game overall. I comment his ability to bounce back and I still maintain it’s a luxury to have him as our “break in case of emergency” guard. Still, Kidd is going to Kidd and overuse him.

Naji Marshall has blown my mind. That is all. I never thought he could be this good and versatile of a scorer. He only had 4 games of 20+pt games in his entire 4 years in New Orleans and he’s already matched that this year so far with Dallas. Now do I think he’s going to continue scoring like this? No. But he has shown he has the ability to score like this which is something we’ve desperately craved at that position for the last 20 years.

But in the end, my Dirkie has to go to none other than Kyrie. I mean my goodness. He continues to make me speechless. It’s obvious how great of a player he is. I mean heck, we’ve come to expect his inevitable 4th quarter heroics. 4 straight 3s to put the game away, incredibly, is something we’re supposed to be used to when it comes to Kyrie. So that isn’t the main reason why I am giving him the dirkie (although it is a part of it!). No, the reason why I am giving him the dirkie is that there was a moment in the 3rd quarter where PJ and Naji failed a switch. It led to a wide open 3 for Atlanta. At that moment you could hear Kyrie on the rim mics screaming, “WE GOT TO TALK” , over and over. After that moment, the Mavs never looked back. That is what leaders do. Kyrie freaking Irving what a deserved dirkie.

[Scott41theMavs]

SH, what has frog-in-a-pot blown me away about Kyrie is what we haven't seen - the off-the-court blow-ups and controversies we all expected when we traded for him. That guy GATA has a big stick up his bunghole about Kai, likely for some off-court thing he really hated (GATA can't be so abjectly stupid about basketball to believe the things he says in the game threads without looking at Kai with brown-colored glasses...). Kai has given him, and everyone else, zero to yak and complain about since getting here. He's matured, and he's a phenomenal leader. If only he could get Luka to play non-heliocentric (a labor of Hercules for the greatest of leaders), this team would win the next two rings for sure.

[SleepingHero]

SH, what has frog-in-a-pot blown me away about Kyrie is what we haven't seen - the off-the-court blow-ups and controversies we all expected when we traded for him. sure.

That’s the thing, I was sure Kyrie would have one or two antics while here. So far, nothing. And I think that’s because the Mavs management and Kidd have worked everyday to make sure there is open dialogue. If Kyrie feels heard, respected, and listened to, I think he has no reason to cause messes.

Plus our media is not out to get players like the NYK/BOS media. Our guys do everything they can to praise our Mavs relentlessly.


Also quick P.S. let’s try not to attack our fellow board members, even if they themselves haven’t really shown anything rational or nice themselves.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

BTW: what is the story on Bogdanovic this year? He’s been very productive off the bench the last years so far he only played im five games. Whenever I see him and I remember the flamethrower he always brings in FIBA competition I can’t help but get the Goran Dragic-syndrome and think „that dude can’t end his career without playing for the Mavs.“

Right now he’d be a exactly what we need off the bench. Skilled 13-15ppg guy who can play on and off the ball, shoot as well as create and just doesn’t trip over his owen feet all the time. He’d be a blessing here. Any reliable bench guard would.

I’d try hard to creat JAZMANIA until the trade deadline but if it doesn’t happen that’s the way I’m looking to make a move. He’d fit like a glove next to Marshall here off the bench.

He has been on my radar too to fill the role of bench scorer/distributor. He is coming back from a hamstring injury and has only played in 5 or so games. We’d probably have to include Maxi in any deal and I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Hardy makes 6m, Bogdanovic 16m this season and next. I’d rather just give Hardy the role consistently and see what he’s got. This team is going to need(relatively)cheap, useable players going forward.

They’d probably ask for Maxi (re-routed to a 3rd team?) Hardy and a protected pick or maybe a second round pick.

For me, any deal that involves Omax would necessitate a player a tier above Bogdanovic coming back in return.

[ballsrchr]

"Poll: Who played above expectations?"

Dinwiddie, if we're to answer the poll question directly.

Kyrie did what Kyrie does in the 4th. Naji is starting to get too consistently good to be the answer to the Dirkie poll question.

Dinwiddie went from everyone wanting to cut him from the team 24 hours ago, to being one of the major reasons this team pulled off the upset on this B2B.

I've tried different questions and/or combinations of ratings for the player who just knocks our pants off and helps with the win.  But...none of them really work.  I've also asked for opinions on what the question should be.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we have Luka and Kyrie on the team and each, or either, of them can carry a rotten game to a win all by themselves--almost.  So, yes, Dinwiddie did play above expectations and for that reason I almost voted for him.  We have a good team and if they start hitting on all cylinders then I think we'll have a lot of choices every night.

[Scott41theMavs]

I've tried different questions and/or combinations of ratings for the player who just knocks our pants off and helps with the win.  But...none of them really work.  I've also asked for opinions on what the question should be.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we have Luka and Kyrie on the team and each, or either, of them can carry a rotten game to a win all by themselves--almost.  So, yes, Dinwiddie did play above expectations and for that reason I almost voted for him.  We have a good team and if they start hitting on all cylinders then I think we'll have a lot of choices every night.

The main reason I hesitate to give Dinwiddie a Dirkie is that this is the only kind of game he should get leash on - one where all of the other alternatives is out.

Our top 9 rotation when everyone is healthy should be:
Kyrie 35 Luka 18
Luka 17 Grimes 15 Exum 14
Klay 28 Grimes 10 Naji 10
PJ 30 Naji 18
Lively 28 Gafford 20

Luka 35
Kyrie 35
PJ 30
Klay 28
Lively 28
Naji 28
Grimes 25
Gafford 20
Exum 14

No room for Din or Hardy if everyone's healthy. Din is absolutely an insurance/injury player, whereas Hardy is a developmental prospect. Maxi is situational.

[Scott41theMavs]

That’s the thing, I was sure Kyrie would have one or two antics while here. So far, nothing. And I think that’s because the Mavs management and Kidd have worked everyday to make sure there is open dialogue. If Kyrie feels heard, respected, and listened to, I think he has no reason to cause messes.

Plus our media is not out to get players like the NYK/BOS media. Our guys do everything they can to praise our Mavs relentlessly.


Also quick P.S. let’s try not to attack our fellow board members, even if they themselves haven’t really shown anything rational or nice themselves.

OK. GATA gets to me because his takes on Kyrie are so off-the-wall and, really, de facto anti-Mavs by virtue of hating what helps us win. I was just venting a little. If you remove the abusive language (which I agree was uncalled-for) then perhaps it becomes clearer that I was trying to understand the guy and not resent him as much. Sorry if I offended.

[mvossman]

OK. GATA gets to me because his takes on Kyrie are so off-the-wall and, really, de facto anti-Mavs by virtue of hating what helps us win. I was just venting a little. If you remove the abusive language (which I agree was uncalled-for) then perhaps it becomes clearer that I was trying to understand the guy and not resent him as much. Sorry if I offended.

The easy answer is to set him to ignore.

[SleepingHero]

OK. GATA gets to me because his takes on Kyrie are so off-the-wall and, really, de facto anti-Mavs by virtue of hating what helps us win. I was just venting a little. If you remove the abusive language (which I agree was uncalled-for) then perhaps it becomes clearer that I was trying to understand the guy and not resent him as much. Sorry if I offended.

You are totally fine and it’s ok. Just trying to keep the peace and make everyone feel welcome, even if the person you are talking about usually just spouts nonsense to himself. 

I agree with mvossman and setting him on ignore might be the best. GATA says stuff I vehemently disagree with but nothing he says is ban worthy. He just disagrees with 99% of people who watch the Mavs. That’s okay. 

Don’t let his opinion get you down !