Game 15: New Orleans Pelicans (4-10) vs. Dallas Mavericks (7-7) | 7:30pm CST

[SleepingHero]

Lively's post game is so nice.

[SleepingHero]

KLAY IS GETTING HOT

[SleepingHero]

KYRIE IRVING MY GOODNESS

[SleepingHero]

To put it in Luka terms, his defense tonight has been amazing man.

[SleepingHero]

LETS GO LUKA WOW

[KillerLeft]

Grimes might be the best on ball defender (at guard, at least) the Mavs have had since I’ve been watching them. More than 20 years.

[Scott41theMavs]

Quick, quick, let's get Grimes out of the game before his average annual salary goes up another million.

[Chicagojk]

Looking forward to seeing Hardy in this one, especially if Luka doesn’t play. He’s looked good the last few games and want to see if he can sustain it.

He’s had good stretches of games in the past, but that was usually when he was hot. These past few games have felt a bit different, like MAYBE things are starting to click for him and the game’s starting to slow down a bit.

Outside of a couple of boneheaded mistakes, I think he’s looked composed and his decision making has been a lot better.

I still think he is going to have trouble getting run when everyone is healthy.  Although he can certainly make it a tough omission.  There is no doubt he is stronger and more explosive this year.   

I still think there is a fine line when to attack and when not to attack.   If he picks the right time, he can be very good at it.  But against good defensive teams and ones with length he can attack into trouble.  We saw it last night.   Some really nice plays and then some where he either turned it over or made it a really tough finish.   It is a process.  He has gotten better making nice passes attacking.  I just think he gets into bad positions being too aggressive at times.  The paint jumper is a nice addition to his game.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs took care of business last night. Not much to be learned besides not hiring the Pelicans trainer.

[melonhead]

Everything is all good after a win, but tbh this game we didnt learn much. Well take the win.

I do enjoy seeing Grimes and Naji continue fitting in this team. I think its clear now for anyone on the fence that we've upgraded from djj although i loved him on the team.

Also, Kyrie. He's so good.

[KillerLeft]

Everything is all good after a win, but tbh this game we didnt learn much. Well take the win.

I do enjoy seeing Grimes and Naji continue fitting in this team. I think its clear now for anyone on the fence that we've upgraded from djj although i loved him on the team.

Also, Kyrie. He's so good.

Good stuff. They've absolutely upgraded DJJ, however...setting aside the skills they've added with the new guys, it's important to understand that they've essentially replaced DJJ with an aggregate of two players, or even three, when you consider that Thompson is the guy actually taking his rotation spot. 

It would be one thing if Marshall could do everything DJJ could do, but in reality they are very different players, as are Thompson and DJJ. 

Thompson adds shooting and general offensive skill that DJJ didn't have, yes, and he's not a bad defender. I'd put him just outside of the group of 5 "plus" defenders in the extended rotation during this early season stretch.

Marshall brings a ton of grit, and is a fine defender, but not as versatile, defensively, as DJJ was. He guards bigger players a little better, probably, but just isn't quick enough to get around screens and cut off dribble drives like DJJ was doing by the end of his year here. Like Thompson, he is an IMMENSE upgrade over DJJ, offensively, and we've already seen how that can manifest, as he's literally playing PG through portions of each game. Pretty well, most nights. He's a surprisingly good driver, he makes good reads, can pass accurately with either hand, doesn't play out of control and is shockingly dangerous as a downhill scorer, both inside and from the midrange. The only thing that's missing is his 3-ball, and I feel like that will come with time here in this offense. After all, it did for DJJ. I think that at some point this season Marshall will be AT LEAST as reliable from 3 as DJJ and PJW were in the playoffs last year, and hopefully more reliable than that. 

None of the three new guys in this conversation are even remotely the athlete DJJ is, but Grimes is the one who actually "replaces" what DJJ's eventual, successful role was: perimeter, on-ball defender. He's not as long as DJJ, but he can do it very effectively because his instincts are preternatural and his feet are QUICK. The problem (and the reason I'm harping on this aggregate thing) is that he seems to be the third most likely of the new trio to be ensconced in the rotation. 

I feel very, very strongly that if Grimes can't get into the rotation consistently (and I mean high in it, like top 8, not just "when we need some defense"), this team is going to have a lower ceiling than last year's when the dust clears. I'm not saying that if he doesn't end up there, it will automatically be Kidd's fault. Grimes has agency and accountability in this situation, and I'm sure Kidd is hoping he works out just as much as we. 

That kind of means that Marshall has to play well on offense, ironically, because when you do the math and realize that the end result rotation when games matter is only going to have 8-9 guys in it (someone will suggest they'll play 10 in the playoffs, but I doubt it), you very quickly realize that Grimes' spot must come at the detriment to either Kleber, Gafford (this is an entirely different conversation I'll save for another day) or (more likely),  BOTH (not one of, but both) Hardy and Dinwiddie. If they need one of those guys to be in the playoff rotation to run the offense, Grimes' path to consistent burn is even harder.

There's a lot Kidd has to figure out.

[Scott41theMavs]

Good stuff. They've absolutely upgraded DJJ, however...setting aside the skills they've added with the new guys, it's important to understand that they've essentially replaced DJJ with an aggregate of two players, or even three, when you consider that Thompson is the guy actually taking his rotation spot. 

It would be one thing if Marshall could do everything DJJ could do, but in reality they are very different players, as are Thompson and DJJ. 

Thompson adds shooting and general offensive skill that DJJ didn't have, yes, and he's not a bad defender. I'd put him just outside of the group of 5 "plus" defenders in the extended rotation during this early season stretch.

Marshall brings a ton of grit, and is a fine defender, but not as versatile, defensively, as DJJ was. He guards bigger players a little better, probably, but just isn't quick enough to get around screens and cut off dribble drives like DJJ was doing by the end of his year here. Like Thompson, he is an IMMENSE upgrade over DJJ, offensively, and we've already seen how that can manifest, as he's literally playing PG through portions of each game. Pretty well, most nights. He's a surprisingly good driver, he makes good reads, can pass accurately with either hand, doesn't play out of control and is shockingly dangerous as a downhill scorer, both inside and from the midrange. The only thing that's missing is his 3-ball, and I feel like that will come with time here in this offense. After all, it did for DJJ. I think that at some point this season Marshall will be AT LEAST as reliable from 3 as DJJ and PJW were in the playoffs last year, and hopefully more reliable than that. 

None of the three new guys in this conversation are even remotely the athlete DJJ is, but Grimes is the one who actually "replaces" what DJJ's eventual, successful role was: perimeter, on-ball defender. He's not as long as DJJ, but he can do it very effectively because his instincts are preternatural and his feet are QUICK. The problem (and the reason I'm harping on this aggregate thing) is that he seems to be the third most likely of the new trio to be ensconced in the rotation. 

I feel very, very strongly that if Grimes can't get into the rotation consistently (and I mean high in it, like top 8, not just "when we need some defense"), this team is going to have a lower ceiling than last year's when the dust clears. I'm not saying that if he doesn't end up there, it will automatically be Kidd's fault. Grimes has agency and accountability in this situation, and I'm sure Kidd is hoping he works out just as much as we. 

That kind of means that Marshall has to play well on offense, ironically, because when you do the math and realize that the end result rotation when games matter is only going to have 8-9 guys in it (someone will suggest they'll play 10 in the playoffs, but I doubt it), you very quickly realize that Grimes' spot must come at the detriment to either Kleber, Gafford (this is an entirely different conversation I'll save for another day) or (more likely),  BOTH (not one of, but both) Hardy and Dinwiddie. If they need one of those guys to be in the playoff rotation to run the offense, Grimes' path to consistent burn is even harder.

There's a lot Kidd has to figure out.

I said after the first two games or so that our 8-man was Luka, Kyrie, Klay, PJ, Lively, Gafford, Marshall, and Grimes.

There is no excuse for Grimes not to be above Hardy and Dinwiddie in the rotation, unless the owners have told Nico to tell Kidd to keep his minutes low for contract negotiation purposes. But that's the contrary of actually trying to win this year, as Grimes is pretty essential. It will be interesting to see the A/B between Grimes and Exum when the latter returns (wondering how much longer we have to wait for that).

[Knutsen]

Just rewatched the game - is it just wishful imagination from my side combined with abysmal Pelicans defense or did Luka move better than before?

Was able to get around his guy on the perimeter a lot of times and was also able to finish difficult shots in traffic.

[KillerLeft]

I said after the first two games or so that our 8-man was Luka, Kyrie, Klay, PJ, Lively, Gafford, Marshall, and Grimes.

There is no excuse for Grimes not to be above Hardy and Dinwiddie in the rotation, unless the owners have told Nico to tell Kidd to keep his minutes low for contract negotiation purposes. But that's the contrary of actually trying to win this year, as Grimes is pretty essential. It will be interesting to see the A/B between Grimes and Exum when the latter returns (wondering how much longer we have to wait for that).

I've been mulling the idea of a thread that deep dives into the rotation. Many people add up total minutes by position, which is a terrible approach. Pretty much everyone goes down to 9 players in the playoffs, and actually, most go to 8, as you suggest above. 

I think your 8 is one of the more likely of the good options, but I can't shake the feeling that if Kleber is healthy (huge if, obviously) he should be in there. He's one of those 5 "plus defenders" I keep talking about, after all, and he has looked pretty good this year, so far. Would he be your #9? Because if not, we reach a very difficult choice, indeed, and one for which my preference would not be popular, whatsoever.

And, setting that issue aside, the rotation you suggest above relies HEAVILY on Marshall to initiate offense. What would prevent Grimes from eating those minutes is either Dinwiddie or Hardy being needed to handle the ball. And, just in case you're not adequately scared by that, realize that there's already a growing number of Mavs fans who think the missing piece this year is ANOTHER ball-dominant bench guard to play backup PG.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Mavs have upgraded.

From THJ to Klay. Even if Klay's shot isn't falling, you can clearly see how Klay is better than THJ. From shot selection, to decision making, to defense. Klay is just superior. Klay moves with purpose as opposed to THJ's on court movements.

From Green to Grimes. Grimes is like a more composed Green, who clearly knows what to do with the ball, has better handles and is a willing shot taker. His D is better than Green's too.

From DJJ to Naji. Well, DJJ's athletic profile and defensive abilities fits well with a Luka-Kyrie led team. But Naji's role is developing into a swiss-army knife. DJJ has better rebounding numbers, but the trade-off is he can get bullied by bulkier guys in the post -- Naji has more muscle and toughness to him, it's harder to post him up. Naji's also thriving as the secondary ball handler. He has point guard instincts and the dribbling ability for a playmaker. You can see it, the Mavs trusts him to handle the ball and create. I know he isn't a PG but Naji's taking over the Exum role, only this time -- the Exum spot is on a bigger player who can give you 12 efficient points every night.

* Note -- when Exum comes back, it would be fun to see him and Naji sharing ballhandling duties specially in the open court. They're just relentless attackers in the open.

[KillerLeft]

Just rewatched the game - is it just wishful imagination from my side combined with abysmal Pelicans defense or did Luka move better than before?

Was able to get around his guy on the perimeter a lot of times and was also able to finish difficult shots in traffic.

No, I agree with you. Yes, the competition was less than scary, but he was moving better and noticeably more confident, engaged and on balance with his shots. It was his best game of the season, so far, and with Luka, I don't think we have to worry about the competition. The only one who can stop Luka is Luka, so seeing him start to creep back into form is promising, regardless of the competition.