A Few Thoughts on Mavs 107, Raptors 110

[mavsluvr]

Mavs Blow Thirty-Point Lead in Toronto


Ouch! The Luka-less Mavericks suffered a meltdown in the last 15 minutes. 


Game Analysis

Luka was still out. Toronto was missing Gasol, Siakam, and Powell.

With a 30-point lead at 2:32 in the third quarter, the Mavericks looked in control, and sure to walk away with another road victory. Instead, Toronto adjusted to incorporate an aggressive pressing game, and the young Mavs were discombobulated and never recovered. After battling an 8-1 run by Toronto to end the third period, Dallas went into the fourth with a 23-point advantage. 

Carlisle went with Brunson-Seth-Hardaway-DFS-Porzingis as his primary players in the final frame, with Broekhoff and Wright contributing 4-5 minutes each. The Mavericks became hesitant and passive, as Kyle Lowry and a bench unit pummeled them with pressure and physical play. Lowry alone had 20 points in the period, and Dallas had no answer for him. The defense crumbled, with Lowry and Co. knifing through the lane at will. At the end of the quarter, the Mavs had committed 7 turnovers, given up 3 offensive rebounds for six second-chance points, and shot 1-10 from three. Barf. 

For the game, the stats indicate that Dallas was undone by 17 turnovers, which Toronto capitalized on for 18 points. The Mavericks kept the game close with a 15-point advantage in made threes. 


Players

KP had 19 points and 11 rebounds, but had a poor shooting night (5-15) and failed to box out on several occasions in the fourth quarter. THJ had a 16-8-5 line, but turned the ball over 4 times and shot 6-19. Brunson looked pretty good in the box score with 21 points and 9 assists, but was not up to the battle with Lowry and his cohort at the end, and had his usual late-game struggles. The starters got the bulk of the playing time, with each player recording over 30 minutes. 

Rick went with super-small units in the fourth, with KP the only big to play more than one minute in the quarter. No Mav stepped up and took charge against the Raptors' show of force, or calmed the game down and got the flustered Mavericks back on track. 

Congrats to the Toronto players and their fans for never giving up. 


Remarks

Rick thought the performance was disappointing, and took responsibility for the loss. He said that his team was "passive," and did not respond appropriately to Toronto's adjustments. He also said that was on him, and that he had told his team that. When Ced was asked what Rick had meant by that, Ceballos opined that Rick thought, in retrospect, that he should have brought in some different guys to try to shut down the Raptors' run. Maybe some energy guys, since the guys on the floor were tiring, and Toronto was showing so much aggression. 

As the Mavs were melting down, I wondered about bringing in Barea, which seemed like a move that might at least get the team organized and focused again. Also, JJB has years of experience in dealing with NBA pressure. I also wondered about not using Maxi or Powell, who are both energy guys, when the Mavs seemed to be fading. Rick, however, elected to let the guys he had put on the floor fight through it. 

As much as anything, I think the way this game played out tells us that this team is prioritizing team development over winning now. I don't have a problem with that approach. I guess the real question is whether the young'uns are really learning anything when they are just all over the place, or whether they would learn more with a veteran out there to show them how to get out of a jam. Carlisle evidently thinks they will benefit from a throw-them-in-the-deep-end approach, and I am not in much of a position to quarrel, under the circumstances. FWIW, THJ said post-game that he disagrees that the loss was on Rick, and thinks that the game was "the best thing that could happen" in terms of stimulating the Mavs' "killer instinct."

I guess the good news is that the guys were able to build a 30-point lead against the champs, even without Luka. Disappointing that they couldn't hold on to it against this depleted Raptors team, but hopefully, the experience will benefit them. I think it's a good day for venting for Mavs fans. But also, no reason to think this is going to continue to happen. Mavs go 2-3 on their tough five-game stretch without Luka, and it could have been worse. 


Next. San Antonio, at home, on the day after Christmas. 

I am submitting a somewhat abbreviated recap, due to squeezing it in between family matters. Will put something together Thursday, if I can. Hope everyone has a merry Christmas!

Go Mavs!

[Hypermav]

Merry Christmas to you and all MFFL

[fifteenth]

Thanks ML and Merry Christmas!

I tend to agree that this was player development that didn't work out. These guys have to learn to how to handle pressure if they want to make any noise in the playoffs.

I think JJB, Powell and Kleber could have saved the day with JJB's experience under pressure along with his chemistry with Powell and Kleber. But if JJB comes in any time the pressure becomes too great for JB and Delon then those guys won't grow.

[mavsluvr]

Thanks ML and Merry Christmas!

I tend to agree that this was player development that didn't work out. These guys have to learn to how to handle pressure if they want to make any noise in the playoffs.

I think JJB, Powell and Kleber could have saved the day with JJB's experience under pressure along with his chemistry with Powell and Kleber. But if JJB comes in any time the pressure becomes too great for JB and Delon then those guys won't grow.

I agree with that. Listening to Rick, I got the impression he felt that, in this particular case, he may have made a different choice if he had it to do over. Nevertheless, the point stands.

[fifteenth]

I got the impression he felt that, in this particular case, he may have made a different choice if he had it to do over.

No doubt. He might have, after the fact, that maybe he could have given the young guys some experience under pressure AND secured the win by sprinkling some JJB in or playing the bigs more. Maybe he thought of a way that would been less like hanging the young guys out to dry.

But of course, hindsight. None of us knew that they'd never settle the game down for a while quarter plus.

[mavsluvr]

I got the impression he felt that, in this particular case, he may have made a different choice if he had it to do over.

No doubt. He might have, after the fact, that maybe he could have given the young guys some experience under pressure AND secured the win by sprinkling some JJB in or playing the bigs more. Maybe he thought of a way that would been less like hanging the young guys out to dry.

But of course, hindsight. None of us knew that they'd never settle the game down for a while quarter plus.

Totally agree. Also, it occurred to me that they might not be learning much by such an extensive period of flailing around, and that part of the reason you have veterans on a young team is to show the young guys how it's done. But, as you say, that's all with the benefit of hindsight. I wonder if it will affect Rick's thinking for the future, in terms of how long it makes sense to watch the team drowning. Hopefully, it won't even come up very often, as this will pretty much be mooted once Luka comes back.

[fifteenth]

I mean, we have recent examples of the young guys closing games. But I don't think they've yet faced tonight's level of intensity before tonight.

Sink or swim vs floaties. Gotta be both, right? But how much of each. We may not be able to judge until they find themselves in the pressure cooker again.

[mavsluvr]

I mean, we have recent examples of the young guys closing games. But I don't think they've yet faced tonight's level of intensity before tonight.

Sink or swim vs floaties. Gotta be both, right? But how much of each. We may not be able to judge until they find themselves in the pressure cooker again.

Right. I am not so much second-guessing as trying to understand what Rick meant when he said the loss was on him, and Ced's interpretation of the remark. Rick could have been just taking one for the team. Or, there could have been something to it.

[fifteenth]

Right. I am not so much second-guessing as trying to understand what Rick meant when he said the loss was on him,

I already second guessed! LOL. I was done with the pressure when Tor closed it to 15! Give me JJB!! :-)

Rick does that "it's on me periodically." You ask a good question. Sometimes I think the players probably think "thanks coach, but we know it's on us." Not sure this time. I think Rick really could have influenced the outcome, but he may have REALLY wanted for JJB and Delon to figure it out. But then second guesses it when it didn't work.

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sorry for the typos! Too many to go back amd correct

[mtrot]

What JJB does so well is to force the issue and get fouls called on the defender.  He doesn't hesitate and is decisive when defenders are pressuring him.  That's what we needed tonight to avoid this loss, IMO.

[mavsluvr]

Right. I am not so much second-guessing as trying to understand what Rick meant when he said the loss was on him,

I already second guessed! LOL. I was done with the pressure when Tor closed it to 15! Give me JJB!! :-)

Rick does that "it's on me periodically." You ask a good question. Sometimes I think the players probably think "thanks coach, but we know it's on us." Not sure this time. I think Rick really could have influenced the outcome, but he may have REALLY wanted for JB and Delon to figure it out. But then second guesses it when it didn't work.

---

sorry for the typos! Too many to go back amd correct

hahaha

I admit to feeling antsy and disappointed during that run, and think the coach may well have been able to change the outcome, but at this point, assigning blame doesn't interest me that much. It's more that if Rick feels like he has an insight now that he didn't have earlier, I would love to know what it is. I suppose we can only speculate among ourselves!

[donzingis38]

But if JJB comes in any time the pressure becomes too great for JB and Delon then those guys won't grow.

Man. That's so true. 

Maybe sometimes you just gotta let them make the mistakes and go through this. It sucks but it's the only way to learn and like you said, grow.

I mean, this Raps team also went through hell with Lebron demoralizing them three years in a row.

And look at them now..

[mavsluvr]

Just rewatched some of the fourth. Man. It was somehow even worse than I remembered. Not to pile on, but since this is Venting Day --

The Raps made up their 30-point deficit in 8 game minutes. Dallas had the last 5:30 to recover, but couldn't manage it. On the floor, the Mavericks didn't just look they were making some bad decisions. They looked like they had completely fallen apart. Wild passes to all the wrong places, repeatedly sending the Raps to the line, turning the ball over, missing free throws, terrible shots, hesitancy, indecisiveness, lack of aggression, lack of any sort of cohesion. Total meltdown. Gave up a 47-point quarter to Toronto. Yikes.


Thoughts. Here, I am imagining myself as the coach of the team and trying to figure out what can be learned from that. --

I'm not sure exactly why Dallas was so unsettled by the trap, which is a pretty time-honored type of defense. Nurse said he took the trapping technique "right out of the high school coaching handbook." But they're likely to see a lot more of it. Maybe they need a little coaching up on dealing with aggressive double teams. 

On reflection, maybe when the team has completely collapsed for a long period of time and isn't getting it together, it's time to put a veteran out there to provide some guidance, rather than just leaving the young guys out there to twist in the wind. Especially if you don't have your best players out there. I could see an inexperienced team (even a good one) losing it in the playoffs, when they are subject to a strategy they weren't expecting. Hopefully, they will come out more able to keep their composure and fight through it. 

Maxi and Powell are so critical to the Mavs' offense -- setting screens, rim-rolling, rebounding, cutting, diving, helping the team create the best shots. I understand that Dallas was playing their diminutive lineups to match up with what Toronto was doing. But without their big men, they were having trouble creating offense and mostly settling for a bunch of bad shots. I wonder whether tiny units should appear for any considerable amount of time without Luka on the floor. 

I'm a little puzzled as to why the Mavs weren't making some adjustments, at least to stop Lowry. They didn't institute a counter-press, double-team Lowry, or appear to make any changes in their scheme. Continued to go under the screen against Kyle for much of the run. Rick is generally one of the best in-game adjustments coaches in the game. Did he not make adjustments? Or were the players unable to execute them? I guess the solution to this depends to an extent on the reason for the problem. 


These thoughts are not intended to say Rick necessarily should have done something different. A lot has to go wrong to lose a 30-point lead in 8 minutes. Just to try to identify what can be learned about this team and its management for the future.

[iolide]

You pretty much summed up my thoughts, Mavsluvr.

[Dahlsim]

Mavs Blow Thirty-Point Lead in Toronto


Ouch! The Luka-less Mavericks suffered a meltdown in the last 15 minutes. 


Game Analysis

Luka was still out. Toronto was missing Gasol, Siakam, and Powell.

With a 30-point lead at 2:32 in the third quarter, the Mavericks looked in control, and sure to walk away with another road victory. Instead, Toronto adjusted to incorporate an aggressive pressing game, and the young Mavs were discombobulated and never recovered. After battling an 8-1 run by Toronto to end the third period, Dallas went into the fourth with a 23-point advantage. 

Carlisle went with Brunson-Seth-Hardaway-DFS-Porzingis as his primary players in the final frame, with Broekhoff and Wright contributing 4-5 minutes each. The Mavericks became hesitant and passive, as Kyle Lowry and a bench unit pummeled them with pressure and physical play. Lowry alone had 20 points in the period, and Dallas had no answer for him. The defense crumbled, with Lowry and Co. knifing through the lane at will. At the end of the quarter, the Mavs had committed 7 turnovers, given up 3 offensive rebounds for six second-chance points, and shot 1-10 from three. Barf. 

For the game, the stats indicate that Dallas was undone by 17 turnovers, which Toronto capitalized on for 18 points. The Mavericks kept the game close with a 15-point advantage in made threes. 


Players

KP had 19 points and 11 rebounds, but had a poor shooting night (5-15) and failed to box out on several occasions in the fourth quarter. THJ had a 16-8-5 line, but turned the ball over 4 times and shot 6-19. Brunson looked pretty good in the box score with 21 points and 9 assists, but was not up to the battle with Lowry and his cohort at the end, and had his usual late-game struggles. The starters got the bulk of the playing time, with each player recording over 30 minutes. 

Rick went with super-small units in the fourth, with KP the only big to play more than one minute in the quarter. No Mav stepped up and took charge against the Raptors' show of force, or calmed the game down and got the flustered Mavericks back on track. 

Congrats to the Toronto players and their fans for never giving up. 


Remarks

Rick thought the performance was disappointing, and took responsibility for the loss. He said that his team was "passive," and did not respond appropriately to Toronto's adjustments. He also said that was on him, and that he had told his team that. When Ced was asked what Rick had meant by that, Ceballos opined that Rick thought, in retrospect, that he should have brought in some different guys to try to shut down the Raptors' run. Maybe some energy guys, since the guys on the floor were tiring, and Toronto was showing so much aggression. 

As the Mavs were melting down, I wondered about bringing in Barea, which seemed like a move that might at least get the team organized and focused again. Also, JJB has years of experience in dealing with NBA pressure. I also wondered about not using Maxi or Powell, who are both energy guys, when the Mavs seemed to be fading. Rick, however, elected to let the guys he had put on the floor fight through it. 

As much as anything, I think the way this game played out tells us that this team is prioritizing team development over winning now. I don't have a problem with that approach. I guess the real question is whether the young'uns are really learning anything when they are just all over the place, or whether they would learn more with a veteran out there to show them how to get out of a jam. Carlisle evidently thinks they will benefit from a throw-them-in-the-deep-end approach, and I am not in much of a position to quarrel, under the circumstances. FWIW, THJ said post-game that he disagrees that the loss was on Rick, and thinks that the game was "the best thing that could happen" in terms of stimulating the Mavs' "killer instinct."

I guess the good news is that the guys were able to build a 30-point lead against the champs, even without Luka. Disappointing that they couldn't hold on to it against this depleted Raptors team, but hopefully, the experience will benefit them. I think it's a good day for venting for Mavs fans. But also, no reason to think this is going to continue to happen. Mavs go 2-3 on their tough five-game stretch without Luka, and it could have been worse. 


Next. San Antonio, at home, on the day after Christmas. 

I am submitting a somewhat abbreviated recap, due to squeezing it in between family matters. Will put something together Thursday, if I can. Hope everyone has a merry Christmas!

Go Mavs!

Not sure about anyone else but this font is dark on the OP is unreadable on the dark theme.  Had to switch to light theme. 

As for the game, we just discussed this the last few games.  I've said that both JJB and Boban are factually and statistically very efficient offensively, historically.  Yeah, Powell and Kleber could have helped as well but seriously JJB would be extremely unlikely to yield all of those turnovers and its almost impossible, esp. with Raptors personnel  to stop Boban from scoring enough points to keep Dallas in front when you're up 30 points in the late 3rd.  

Rick Carlisle took his genius to point of idiocy here. 
So smart he outsmarted himself and yes, no matter what his reputation is, he's absolutely right that this loss, and probably a couple of others this season have been on him.  He literally didn't care enough about actually winning the game which can still be done while developing your younger players. 

There's almost no way that Toronto comes back to win that game with JJB and with Boban as well.  They're just not going to get shut down offensively over a long stretch that way.

[omahen]

Rick does that "it's on me periodically." You ask a good question. Sometimes I think the players probably think "thanks coach, but we know it's on us." Not sure this time. I think Rick really could have influenced the outcome, but he may have REALLY wanted for JJB and Delon to figure it out. But then second guesses it when it didn't work.

Rick does this because he doesn't coach through media. And it is correct thing to say. Other than that - despite it might be better to play JJB, I hope he yelled a lot at his guys behind closed doors. There are just no excuses to receive 50 points in 14 minutes and play like 5-year olds when opponent applies a little pressure. No matter who was on the field or who should have been.

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it's time to put a veteran out there to provide some guidance

Yes, JJB is experienced. However, Seth is almost 30 years old, Wright 27 and JB a college player of the decade. They should know how to handle full court press.

[mavsluvr]

it's time to put a veteran out there to provide some guidance

Yes, JJB is experienced. However, Seth is almost 30 years old, Wright 27 and JB a college player of the decade. They should know how to handle full court press.

That is saying that they "shouldn't" have fallen apart. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. 


The question is, once they did, what, if anything, should Rick have done about it. Being a veteran is measured by experience in the NBA, not age or college pedigree. 

It sounds like your position might be similar to Rick's in-game -- they should have known how to fix it, so he was right not to rescue guys who should have been able to swim to shore.

[SportPsychMav]

it's time to put a veteran out there to provide some guidance

Yes, JJB is experienced. However, Seth is almost 30 years old, Wright 27 and JB a college player of the decade. They should know how to handle full court press.

That is saying that they "shouldn't" have fallen apart. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. 


The question is, once they did, what, if anything, should Rick have done about it. Being a veteran is measured by experience in the NBA, not age or college pedigree. 

It sounds like your position might be similar to Rick's in-game -- they should have known how to fix it, so he was right not to rescue guys who should have been able to swim to shore.

If there is a meltdown it should be disrupted.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I don't think Carlisle ever dreamed they would blow a 30 point lead.  You could see in the way he didn't use time-outs and encouraged the team to play on that he wanted to give players the opportunity to right the ship themselves.  They eventually started breaking the press.  The part I couldn't understand is the guy who first touched the ball in the front court would then hold the ball to run a half court set instead of attacking the defense as it scrambled to get back.  You have to punish the press once it is broken.  Otherwise, there is no incentive to stop pressing.

My biggest concern here is psychological.  In the big picture, it doesn't really matter if this teams wins or loses by 30 or 2.  We entered this 5 game stretch thinking two wins would be a nice outcome WITH Luka.  We went 2-3 without him, came back to force OT in the game he got hurt and had a 30 point lead with 14 minutes to go in Toronto.  I think most of us would have taken that two weeks ago.

Brunson got some valuable experience running the show.  Until Sunday, KP was taking more offensive weight onto his shoulders and showed glimpses of what might be (I still say he never was a dominant offensive player and to expect that here is a bit much to ask).  We learned something about the ability of our other guards to create for themselves and others.  This great Offense of ours is a delicate balance that works well with Luka.  But, Brunson, Wright, Curry and Hardaway get a bit exposed when asked to do too much.

Blowing a 30 point lead is a shame and an embarrassment.  But we've also won games by huge margins.  At the end of the season we will have something in the range of 50-56 wins and be the 4th-6th seed.  None of this will matter because no team will successfully press Luka.  What matters is getting everyone ready for the first round of the playoffs as best we can and that means learning experiences have great value...even painful ones.

[mavsluvr]

I don't think Carlisle ever dreamed they would blow a 30 point lead.

Probably not. But the interesting part of this is that by 5:30 in the fourth quarter, he KNEW that they had blown a 30-point lead. So, he had plenty of time to intervene if he had felt it warranted.