I am not a HOF coach but...

[StepBackJay]

I think this game deserves some reactionary 1-off threads as any embarrassing loss demands. So I will not get too worked up bc there are 82 of these but I will say this. This is the 2nd time Rick has decided to go small for a significant stretch of the 4th quarter during a furious comeback by the home team. It almost lost us the Bucks game but here we are again. Our bigs played great for most of the game, the interior defense was absolutely suffocating. I don't know if it was a fouls thing or what but not sure why we would go small.

The second thing is I know a full court press can be effective in short stretches but surely there's a better way to beat a full court press. Oh well, you win some you lose some. 

I think it goes without saying that if Doncic is in these games the home team doesn't even bother with a furious comeback down 20+. When you have a star that can get to the basket whenever he wants it dampens the enthusiasm of the other team.

[MrGoat]

Our wins over Milwaukee and Philly were against teams that had gotten too full of themselves. After that Philly one maybe we got too full of ourselves and didn't close out a short handed but scrappy Toronto team. It's only regular season games, likely not much more to it than that

[StepBackJay]

Our wins over Milwaukee and Philly were against teams that had gotten too full of themselves. After that Philly one maybe we got too full of ourselves and didn't close out a short handed but scrappy Toronto team. It's only regular season games, likely not much more to it than that

I don't think it was that. the Milwaukee game was our scrubs in a small-ball lineup couldn't score or defend. In this game the Mavs could not execute against the full court press which also sped up the game. The small lineup for a stretch also didn't help. I think not every team has the personnel to do a full court press this efficiently or score in 3 seconds like Giannis but it is a bit troubling to see Mavs not execute. All that being said when Doncic is out there its a different ball-game and he should be back soon. I still think we need another vet out there. I wish JJB was brought out in these late game situations. My guess is that Rick is letting Brunson take his lumps now to get better long-term.

[SportPsychMav]

Our wins over Milwaukee and Philly were against teams that had gotten too full of themselves. After that Philly one maybe we got too full of ourselves and didn't close out a short handed but scrappy Toronto team. It's only regular season games, likely not much more to it than that

I don't think it was that. the Milwaukee game was our scrubs in a small-ball lineup couldn't score or defend. In this game the Mavs could not execute against the full court press which also sped up the game. The small lineup for a stretch also didn't help. I think not every team has the personnel to do a full court press this efficiently or score in 3 seconds like Giannis but it is a bit troubling to see Mavs not execute. All that being said when Doncic is out there its a different ball-game and he should be back soon. I still think we need another vet out there. I wish JJB was brought out in these late game situations. My guess is that Rick is letting Brunson take his lumps now to get better long-term.

Looks like it in which case it is still on Rick.

Rick really played Wright + Brunson + Curry + Broekhoff + Finney Smith lineup. That's inexcusable. Maybe he got baited by Nurse emptying his bench.


Nurse definitely is an excellent coach.

[TXBamanut]

Hindsight obviously, but I did advocate for this in the middle of the run.

Normally, the wisdom is to take the air out of the ball when the team who's behind goes chaos press and tries to come back.  Slow down what they are trying to speed up.

Still, in this particular case, you have to wonder why we didn't press back on the few made baskets we had.  

Why?  Here's my reasons...

There were RHJ, Lowry and 3 G'Leaguers who have never played many meaningful minutes in the NBA.  They weren't really having to think, they just were playing frenetic, gaining momentum.

If you press them back, trap Lowry, get the ball out of his hands, make them think and have to avoid mistakes, I'm betting they crack.

Their whole momentum was built in playing loose and free, butt the last thing they would expect is pressure back, and making them think about things it's exactly what you need to do in that situation.

It's over, move on, but thought about that.

[SportPsychMav]

Rick gonna do Rick things, should have tried Boban + Porzingis + Kleber as Small Forward in the fourth. At least that's fun for fans if it doesn't work out.

[StepBackJay]

Maxi somehow only played 15 minutes.

[SkenfromLMF]

I think Porzingas as the Middle man vs the press would have been effective. 3 guards and KP with DFS up front vs the trap. How did we not get their shot blockers in the air and draw fouls... Instead of just throwing up shots and lobs to get stolen and blocked?

I knew we were in trouble when we did not finish the 1st half strong. I just couldn't believe we didn't adjust better after they showed trap before the half... Hopefully Brunson is learning quickly or there might be more of this type of defense.

[Dahlsim]

Rick gonna do Rick things, should have tried Boban + Porzingis + Kleber as Small Forward in the fourth. At least that's fun for fans if it doesn't work out.

JJB + the Bigs, that's all that was needed if Rick Carlisle really valued a 'W' here.  
Completely benching veterans that can clearly help you win a few games with just limited playing time, just seems like development overkill. 

I do admire Ricks willingness to develop the bench, Brunson in particular but giving away an almost guaranteed 'W' for a team that will be in position for home court advantage in the playoffs, is kind short sighted in a different way.

[vfromlmf]

Tough love lesson for a second year point guard making only his 45th start in the NBA. 

Can't play weak, lose confidence, toughness and edge against anyone. 

We've heard players have been asking JJB what the playoffs are like. Hopefully, Carlisle is telling them if they think the Raptors G-Leaguers fought this hard to win in mid-December, it's nothing compared to how hard teams' top guys will play in an elimination game.

The team will learn from it.

[audiosway]

Tough love lesson for a second year point guard making only his 45th start in the NBA. 

Can't play weak, lose confidence, toughness and edge against anyone. 

We've heard players have been asking JJB what the playoffs are like. Hopefully, Carlisle is telling them if they think the Raptors G-Leaguers fought this hard to win in mid-December, it's nothing compared to how hard teams' top guys will play in an elimination game.

The team will learn from it.

This is it. If guys like Brunson and Curry are having trouble scoring putting guys like Bobi out isn't going to help. These young guys have got to learn what it takes to win big games. The best way to do that is games like yesterday. I would rather see them lose some tough games in December that give them what they need to win tough games in May and June.

[SportPsychMav]

Tough love lesson for a second year point guard making only his 45th start in the NBA. 

Can't play weak, lose confidence, toughness and edge against anyone. 

We've heard players have been asking JJB what the playoffs are like. Hopefully, Carlisle is telling them if they think the Raptors G-Leaguers fought this hard to win in mid-December, it's nothing compared to how hard teams' top guys will play in an elimination game.

The team will learn from it.

This is it. If guys like Brunson and Curry are having trouble scoring putting guys like Bobi out isn't going to help. These young guys have got to learn what it takes to win big games. The best way to do that is games like yesterday. I would rather see them lose some tough games in December that give them what they need to win tough games in May and June.

Still puts the loss on Rick. He didn't prioritize winning over development in that case. Which isn't a bad decision but still puts the loss on him.

[ItsGoTime]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

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Still puts the loss on Rick.

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

[SportPsychMav]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

---

Still puts the loss on Rick.

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

He didn't really play rookies in the fourth.


Its clear as day that Brunson gets the spotlight by Rick while Luka is out because he has been a good teammate multiple games before and taking a backseat.

Letting Brunson play through the fourth wasn't the problem.

Lineups were.

[SkenfromLMF]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

---

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

I don't think that was experimental coaching as much as it was an attempt to offset the press with 5 + ball-handlers. I have said that the answer should have been 4+KP with KP understanding that he is a pass-only pivot in the middle. I was shocked the adjustment did not get made at half-time AND/OR the adjustments were not more effective.

[SportPsychMav]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

---

Still puts the loss on Rick.

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

I don't think that was experimental coaching as much as it was an attempt to offset the press with 5 + ball-handlers. I have said that the answer should have been 4+KP with KP understanding that he is a pass-only pivot in the middle. I was shocked the adjustment did not get made at half-time AND/OR the adjustments were not more effective.

Why would you do that though? I don't see how 5 ball handlers should be good against the trapping.

Finney Smith at center was just super weird. 3 guards is fine, but 5 small players is just apeshit if you want to get stops.

[SkenfromLMF]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

---

Still puts the loss on Rick.

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

I don't think that was experimental coaching as much as it was an attempt to offset the press with 5 + ball-handlers. I have said that the answer should have been 4+KP with KP understanding that he is a pass-only pivot in the middle. I was shocked the adjustment did not get made at half-time AND/OR the adjustments were not more effective.

Why would you do that though? I don't see how 5 ball handlers should be good against the trapping.

Finney Smith at center was just super weird. 3 guards is fine, but 5 small players is just apeshit if you want to get stops.

The thinking is that Toronto's offense during the press was transition breaks. IF you can break the press that limits what Toronto was using on offense. That approach worked until Lowery went into beast mode. Then the thinking becomes if they are getting our bigs into trouble switching the picks on Lowery using DFS as the 5 means your best defender is the one switching from the pick.

I didn't like it, but I knew that Rick was scrambling trying to get the team's bearings back. Ultimately the last 2-3 minutes of the 1st half were the difference when they trimmed 8 points off the lead. The 4th was bad, but ultimately they were in a position to extend the game in the last minute...

[SportPsychMav]

RC making his best attempt at shedding the "veteran's coach" title.

---

I'd say the biggest percentage of the fault lies at his feet, but not wholly his fault. The players still have to play the game too.

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

I don't think that was experimental coaching as much as it was an attempt to offset the press with 5 + ball-handlers. I have said that the answer should have been 4+KP with KP understanding that he is a pass-only pivot in the middle. I was shocked the adjustment did not get made at half-time AND/OR the adjustments were not more effective.

Why would you do that though? I don't see how 5 ball handlers should be good against the trapping.

Finney Smith at center was just super weird. 3 guards is fine, but 5 small players is just apeshit if you want to get stops.

The thinking is that Toronto's offense during the press was transition breaks. IF you can break the press that limits what Toronto was using on offense. That approach worked until Lowery went into beast mode. Then the thinking becomes if they are getting our bigs into trouble switching the picks on Lowery using DFS as the 5 means your best defender is the one switching from the pick.

I didn't like it, but I knew that Rick was scrambling trying to get the team's bearings back. Ultimately the last 2-3 minutes of the 1st half were the difference when they trimmed 8 points off the lead. The 4th was bad, but ultimately they were in a position to extend the game in the last minute...

Still a super super weird idea for me.

What's wrong with playing Boban and Maxi

[Sigma4Life]

He didn't really put them in a position to succeed in the fourth. That ultra small ball experiment just screamed cocky experimenting to me.

Players have to execute, but that was still majorly influenced by coaching.

Nurse is an excellent coach. Rick is too

---

I don't think that was experimental coaching as much as it was an attempt to offset the press with 5 + ball-handlers. I have said that the answer should have been 4+KP with KP understanding that he is a pass-only pivot in the middle. I was shocked the adjustment did not get made at half-time AND/OR the adjustments were not more effective.

Why would you do that though? I don't see how 5 ball handlers should be good against the trapping.

Finney Smith at center was just super weird. 3 guards is fine, but 5 small players is just apeshit if you want to get stops.

The thinking is that Toronto's offense during the press was transition breaks. IF you can break the press that limits what Toronto was using on offense. That approach worked until Lowery went into beast mode. Then the thinking becomes if they are getting our bigs into trouble switching the picks on Lowery using DFS as the 5 means your best defender is the one switching from the pick.

I didn't like it, but I knew that Rick was scrambling trying to get the team's bearings back. Ultimately the last 2-3 minutes of the 1st half were the difference when they trimmed 8 points off the lead. The 4th was bad, but ultimately they were in a position to extend the game in the last minute...

Still a super super weird idea for me.

What's wrong with playing Boban and Maxi

I don't understand the confusion. Against the press you need more people that can dribble out of it. More bigs makes the press more effective since their dribble would get picked more easily.

[dmavs4life03]

two things we did wrong imo, actually three. 

1) was not putting any size on the floor to grab boards and set screens to free up the ball handlers (maxi,powell,boban though not necessarily in that order) 

2) not defending the 3 point line better (which was really the only way they could chop the lead up so fast
and finally
3) the icing on the cake to me was when we called timeout after having the ball in transition with like 35secs to go only down 1. If we missed the shot, maybe we could have done intentional fouling and then advance the ball for a chance at a game tying 3. Once we called TO, someone in the game chat called a brunson shot attempt which I figured would happen and the rest is history. wow man that was just the worst end to a game and choke I ever saw live.