A Few Thoughts on Mavs 114, Lakers 100

[Sigma4Life]

It's not like Donnie can just pick players and force them to sign with the Mavs.

Not exactly in that way, but in every pitch made, there is a winner and quite a few losers. Sure, some of the destinations are favorable over others giving those places the advantage, but that is only 1 aspect of the pitch. I can't speak to specifics as I'm not in the room, all I can go on is track record and ours is not very good. We money whip people as our only go-to move, there were FAs that didn't get money whipped and went to lesser destination teams.

None of our top targets went to lesser teams. If you have any examples I've overlooked please let me know. Otherwise see my post above where I noted that top FAs go to playoff caliber teams, which the Mavs were were FAR from last season.

[ItsGoTime]

I'm just saying it's also possible that none of the FA targets wanted to tie the last few years of their prime to a lottery team banking on a semi-unknown 20 year old.

Then how do you say "It's time to give Donnie credit"? I don't think we should be praising Donnie for not being able to get what we need most.

[Sigma4Life]

I'm just saying it's also possible that none of the FA targets wanted to tie the last few years of their prime to a lottery team banking on a semi-unknown 20 year old.

Then how do you say "It's time to give Donnie credit"? I don't think we should be praising Donnie for not being able to get what we need most.

He can get credit if he made the most of a bad situation. Maybe we thought we were a destination team but quickly realized top players were not interested in playing with Luka 'yet'.

I don't know that it's true but you can't refute the hard evidence I supplied about the teams our top targets chose. ALL of them were either a playoff caliber team or a team with Lebron. Can you refute the objective evidence? Otherwise we can go back and forth all day with our opinions.

[ItsGoTime]

None of our top targets went to lesser teams. If you have any examples I've overlooked please let me know. Otherwise see my post above where I noted that top FAs go to playoff caliber teams, which the Mavs were were FAR from last season.

Another example of an advantage in the pitch process, but not insurmountable. Are we sure all those "targets" you mentioned were actual Mavs targets? I'd contend that there is a chance Bogdanovic, Brogdan maybe even Favors (which wasn't a FA, but gettable none-the-less) were possibly ruled out. All we needed was 2 starter level guys to say yes (there were a TON of them in this largest FA crop ever). Does getting Favors in trade change the mind of Green (where he decides to say yes before Kawhi makes his decision as he said he was really close to saying yes anyway) or any of the others? None of this is provable, so I could be wrong, that's why I don't give praise for less-than performance, just like I'll do with any player on the team.

[fifteenth]

There was a saying WAY back when Dirk played a long, long time ago, "Dirk saves all butts". Well, Luka saves all butts.

This roster would not be winning like this without Luka. But that doesn't mean that we can't give credit to the rest of the roster for the part they are playing in a season that is going better than any of us expected. And if the roster deserves some credit, then the architect of the roster deserves some credit.  

Let's see if star (or even good) players treat the Mavs like they have the plague now that we have someone they'll want to play with.

[ItsGoTime]

Let's see if star (or even good) players treat the Mavs like they have the plague now that we have someone they'll want to play with.

We had that with Dirk and it didn't work out too well for us. I don't want another star player on the team unless KP is determined to not be that by the end of next season. The team as currently constructed reminds me of the early LeBron Cavs teams. Did we praise the Cavs management for putting together those teams?

[mavsluvr]

A few highlights from the game --

https://twitter.com/PeasESPN/status/1201...61057?s=20

[ItsGoTime]

He can get credit if he made the most of a bad situation.

I actually did give him credit for that. I don't feel that type of credit was what was being asked for in the original post, if it was, then my bad.

[Sigma4Life]

He can get credit if he made the most of a bad situation.

I actually did give him credit for that. I don't feel that type of credit was what was being asked for in the original post, if it was, then my bad.

It all depends on perspective I suppose. I'm not saying I think Donnie did a great job in a vacuum, but given the way FAs make their team decisions given the evidence we have, I think our expectations were much higher than anything that was realistic. I'm making that judgement based solely on the facts we know vs the assumptions we don't know are true. It's entirely possible all the top FAs wanted to play for the Mavs but Donnie screwed it up, there just isn't any evidence to support the perspective.

Given that the team is performing at a much higher level than any of us expected, we have to assume Donnie knew what he was doing.

[ItsGoTime]

It's entirely possible all the top FAs wanted to play for the Mavs but Donnie screwed it up, there just isn't any evidence to support the perspective.

Given that the team is performing at a much higher level than any of us expected, we have to assume Donnie knew what he was doing.

The track record is the only tangible evidence, and it speaks poorly to Donnie's (and in all honesty anyone that is a part of the recruiting process including Mark and RC and anyone else in the room) performance. 

(edit) All the excuses for under-performance do not make it a creditable/praise type thing. If I'm a salesman and I'm not bringing in any big accounts when I'm having meetings with them, at some point my manager is gonna wonder why, not give or accept excuses as to why not. If I bring in smaller accounts that outperform their contracts he'll work with me to figure out how to land the bigger ones for a period of time. At some point he'll have to make the decision on whether or not that is enough.

[fifteenth]

We had that with Dirk and it didn't work out too well for us. I don't want another star player on the team unless KP is determined to not be that by the end of next season. The team as currently constructed reminds me of the early LeBron Cavs teams. Did we praise the Cavs management for putting together those teams?

Now you're talking in circles. Mavs can't sign a star, but you don't want one anyway, but let's say management deserves not credit just for fun?

And I've never dreamed for giving the Cavs credit for anything.

But, in general, I think team management (any team) deserves credit when it puts together a team that performs well.

[Sigma4Life]

It's entirely possible all the top FAs wanted to play for the Mavs but Donnie screwed it up, there just isn't any evidence to support the perspective.

Given that the team is performing at a much higher level than any of us expected, we have to assume Donnie knew what he was doing.

The track record is the only tangible evidence, and it speaks poorly to Donnie's (and in all honesty anyone that is a part of the recruiting process including Mark and RC and anyone else in the room) performance.

I agree they did poorly in their team building after 2011, trying to rush a rebuild around Dirk. However, that doesn't mean they are automatically doing a bad job today.

If the goal is winning and making the playoffs then what is there to complain about? Especially since we are looking like a top tier playoff team, just below the elite teams.

What more do we want for a team that wasn't realistically expected to compete for a championship this year? The only team I don't think we could beat in a playoff series this year is the Clippers, but that could change as the team improves or if we make a big trade.

[ItsGoTime]

Now you're talking in circles. Mavs can't sign a star, but you don't want one anyway, but let's say management deserves not credit just for fun?

From the beginning of the talks in FA, I was out on Kemba. I wanted to split the $30M on a big like Morris or Favors or any of that ilk and a two way wing that were starter quality. Regardless of what I wanted, there were very few that thought if we hadn't landed Kemba we should go after proven bench players. I don't think it's talking in circles to believe we had the money for the guys we needed and didn't get them.

[fifteenth]

Regardless of what I wanted, there were very few that thought if we hadn't landed Kemba we should go after proven bench players. I don't think it's talking in circles to believe we had the money for the guys we needed and didn't get them.

At this point I'm past judging them based on what I wanted. They failed if my desires are the criteria. You and I are in the same boat in that they didn't even appear to be interested in one of my top targets. 

Right now I'm just saying that they put together a team that's playing really well together, and the offseason additions are contributing to that. 

At some point, doesn't the "offseason on paper" grade have to give way to the "offseason on the court" grade?

[embellisher]

None of our top targets went to lesser teams. If you have any examples I've overlooked please let me know. Otherwise see my post above where I noted that top FAs go to playoff caliber teams, which the Mavs were were FAR from last season.

+77

[Mavsfan12]

It's not like Donnie can just pick players and force them to sign with the Mavs.

Not exactly in that way, but in every pitch made, there is a winner and quite a few losers. Sure, some of the destinations are favorable over others giving those places the advantage, but that is only 1 aspect of the pitch. I can't speak to specifics as I'm not in the room, all I can go on is track record and ours is not very good. We money whip people as our only go-to move, there were FAs that didn't get money whipped and went to lesser destination teams.

None of our top targets went to lesser teams. If you have any examples I've overlooked please let me know. Otherwise see my post above where I noted that top FAs go to playoff caliber teams, which the Mavs were were FAR from last season.

This is the #1 reason why we stay available in the market for '21.  This will be the year that the Mavs are THE destination - the moment when opportunity and desirability meet and we can finally take advantage of the FA market.  It has been proven that Dallas is not a market that you can simply clear the roster and expect to attract people.  But in '21, the Mavs will be coming off 2 playoff runs with the best young duo in the league. if not the best, period.  What the Mavs FO can do to increase those odds are to make the right moves in the next two years to show the big guys that we WILL spend to win, and do so in a way that also shows them that we can plan for the future - to ensure that their future is bright and that they window doesn't close during their contract.  And maintain future assets so that the cupboard is not completely bare if we need something to acquire him with and for when after the team is capped out.

[ItsGoTime]

At this point I'm past judging them based on what I wanted. They failed if my desires are the criteria.

I guess that's the difference between our thought processes, I would not judge them (or him) on getting any specific player I wanted, but 2 players of a certain skill set/ability to play a starter role was the "want", and I believe that is realistic enough given the FA crop being as huge as it was. 

At some point, doesn't the "offseason on paper" grade have to give way to the "offseason on the court" grade?

Another difference in thought processes. The offseason is the time to grade the FO for the work they did (well, trades during the season). The season is the time to grade the players and coach. Some of that is the vision to get guys that work well, but most of it is on the players and coach to get on the right page.

[omahen]

What the Mavs FO can do to increase those odds are to make the right moves in the next two years to show the big guys that we WILL spend to win

And they started by not spending all the available cap space. Good start! :-)

[Mavsfan12]

What the Mavs FO can do to increase those odds are to make the right moves in the next two years to show the big guys that we WILL spend to win

And they started by not spending all the available cap space. Good start! :-)

Are you referring to FA?  Yeah, I was referring to "spending" in the Trade market.  Taking on salary to improve the team now, yet for short term contracts that still allow flexibility for '21.  I wouldn't mind seeing trades that made the Mavs taxpayers the next 2 seasons while ducking down to get into capspace in '21.  That is what I was talking about.

I think by the time the Mavs missed out on difference makers, their decision to NOT spend every penny was wise and provides flexibility for what hopefully comes next.

[Fuerza1]

I won't pretend that I've spent any time evaluating their methodology, but found it interesting.  Jackson looks like an offensive specialist off the bench.  He's got the 3rd best offensive rating and is tied with Curry with BY FAR the worst defensive rating.  Meanwhile Brunson is showing up nicely on the defensive front (largely on the strength of good on/off number), but is about average offensively.

It is hard to argue with what Carlisle is doing right now, but is seems to me that at some point we need to settle on a four man bench who will mostly play with some member of the starting lineup.  Wright and Maxi are givens.  Seems like right now Jackson, Seth and Brunson are splitting two spots.  With DFS and THJ in the starting lineup, I like Jackson getting regular forward minutes off the bench.  That leaves Curry and Brunson (O and D) battling for the other spot (again, assuming we ever settle into a 9 man regular season rotation).   Neither has come close to wrapping up a spot, but right now Brunson's on court data is much better than Curry's.

Brunson quietly has the best defensive rating on the team. So much for him being "trash" on that end as many concluded this past summer. I think a big reason for this improvement is his rebounding ability at his size; he snatched 2 reb's from Dwight Howard yesterday. He also does a nice job on switches versus big's sometimes. 

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Delon Wright was the star last night. If he could ever be a consistent 3PT shooter, he'd be a much better scorer. But it's really not his style, he is a swiss army knife; our own mini Iguodala (Golden State version).