Why does Jackson get inconsistent minutes

[bartlettbear]

I am not even that bothered by him not starting though I think he is the only true Sf on the team, but why does he not get 15-22 minutes every night.

 He does not take bad shots, he rebounds avg for his position, he plays good defense. 

 He moves better with out the ball better than anyone on the team and he runs the floor well as well.

[TXBamanut]

I am not even that bothered by him not starting though I think he is the only true Sf on the team, but why does he not get 15-22 minutes every night.

 He does not take bad shots, he rebounds avg for his position, he plays good defense. 

 He moves better with out the ball better than anyone on the team and he runs the floor well as well.

A lot of that consistent improvement is recent, to be honest.  He's historically, as early as the first games of this season, been below average in rebounding, and his defense has not been stellar.  That's improved over this season.  If you look at reviews of him in Sacramento, the defense was substandard.

Let's give Carlisle and our coaching staff some credit.  They are developing him into a solid piece in this rotation.  He's having to earn his minutes and I think he is.

I'd love to see what the rotation is at the end of the season.

Personally, behind Seth Curry and Delon Wright, I think there's a lot of players that I wish had more playing time.  Right now, the way the team is playing, I love just about every one of them...We all know that JJB should be getting more time, even though I know why he isn't.

DFS is playing outstanding...Kleber is doing great.  I don't know who you bench...there's more players on the team that I think need more minutes than those that I think need less...  That is really a good thing.

[bartlettbear]

His defense is good, he stays in front of his man and he plays good team defense, ( he needs to get stronger but so does DFS who gets abused by stronger players, he was ready at then end of last year and for team whose coach wants them to shoot 40 threes a game you would want to get your best three point shooter on a team.

Over the years it seems Rick does not play real SF, Marion is the closest thing to a legit SF the Mavs have had, and he is more of 3/4 hybrid.

I dont think the staff is doing wonders in developing him. He is the highest bball Iq on team outside of Luka and not really even close and he plays so much with in the team system.

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DFS does not shot well enough to be an NBA starter at the wing.

[BigDirk41]

I've wanted Jackson to get more minutes all season. I was hoping he would be a starter this year. I'd be happy if he could just get 20-25 minutes every game. He's a really good shooter and like said above, he doesn't take bad shots. He could obviously be better on defense, but it's not like we are defensive juggernauts. We are offensive juggernauts so why not embrace it and hope he gets better on defense through the season.

[Mavsfan12]

I think it comes down to having a ton of depth at the position and the team dynamic REQUIRING a defensive wing that happens to play his same position.  Was chatting earlier about acquiring Iggy and how that would further crunch minutes at the 2/3 where we already have a bunch of quality players needing minutes.  

I also think that TXBam nailed it that it is hard to look at the roster at that position and think of who really needs their minutes cut!  Mavs have a wealth of depth on the wing right now.  No one really outstanding, but all sort of have a good quality about them that we want to see!  I imagine we will need to cut into that depth a bit in a trade this season - or not.  We can ride out having a lot of different options at RC's disposal.  The good thing is that if we do end up trading a couple of them, no one is going to be sad to see any one of them pick up more minutes.  Again, that is a great position to be dealing from!  Another thing I imagine is that no one is looking to be moved.  I imagine not one of them would be excited about being the guy moved off of this team.  I think they all realize that this is a place to be and how good they have it.

[vfromlmf]

I think he is the only true Sf on the team

Jackson hasn't played wing all season. He's had great success as a small ball four but those minutes are limited.

[mavsluvr]

I think he is the only true Sf on the team

Jackson hasn't played wing all season. He's had great success as a small ball four but those minutes are limited.

In addition, shooting is pretty much the only thing JJ is above average at. There are much better rebounders and defenders at his position, so he is usually put in when a a scoring punch is needed. Love the guy, but unless he develops more of an all-around game, his role will probably remain situational. Which is okay, as long as he doesn't mind. Bench specialists matter!

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Because Carlisle is the worst coach in the league.

[embellisher]

When he starts defending and rebounding like DFS, he will take his playing time. Offense and shooting threes is important, but we're not having any trouble scoring points. We need at least one defensive wing in the starting lineup, and DFS is currently the best at that.

If Jackson can get either his rebounding or defense up you that level, he'll get more minutes. If he succeeds in doing both (possible but unlikely) he'll become #3.

[bartlettbear]

I am not sure DFs defense is better than Jackson at the SF at tbe 4 yes .

Per 36 rebounding is pretty similar with slight edge to DFS

But DFS is not a wing player he is a small ball 4 ,

That Mavs really only have four legit wings on the roster outside of Luka Wright , Hardaway and Jackson. The rest are combo guards.

Luka spends most of time at the 1 on O but can guard 4 positions on D.

[Fuerza1]

Jackson hasn't played wing all season. He's had great success as a small ball four but those minutes are limited.

Actually, according to bball reference's position estimate, he plays small forward about 41% of the time. 

In addition, shooting is pretty much the only thing JJ is above average at. There are much better rebounders and defenders at his position, so he is usually put in when a a scoring punch is needed. Love the guy, but unless he develops more of an all-around game, his role will probably remain situational. Which is okay, as long as he doesn't mind. Bench specialists matter!

Shooting is the only thing he's above average at? I would agree but couldn't you say the same thing about Seth Curry? One is playing a consistent 21 mins per game and the other nearly half that, sometimes not even playing at all. 

Lets revisit the OP's question: why is Jackson getting inconsistent minutes? 

Jackson so far is severely outplaying Seth in the shooting department. He has more size and gives you more boards. Analytically, he's providing much more defense. What more does he have to do?

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I think we all know the answer to your question BB. 

Age and salary. That is why he isn't playing more minutes.

[Mavsfan12]

Jackson hasn't played wing all season. He's had great success as a small ball four but those minutes are limited.

Actually, according to bball reference's position estimate, he plays small forward about 41% of the time. 

In addition, shooting is pretty much the only thing JJ is above average at. There are much better rebounders and defenders at his position, so he is usually put in when a a scoring punch is needed. Love the guy, but unless he develops more of an all-around game, his role will probably remain situational. Which is okay, as long as he doesn't mind. Bench specialists matter!

Shooting is the only thing he's above average at? I would agree but couldn't you say the same thing about Seth Curry? One is playing a consistent 21 mins per game and the other nearly half that, sometimes not even playing at all. 

Lets revisit the OP's question: why is Jackson getting inconsistent minutes? 

Jackson so far is severely outplaying Seth in the shooting department. He has more size and gives you more boards. Analytically, he's providing much more defense. What more does he have to do?

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I think we all know the answer to your question BB. 

Age and salary. That is why he isn't playing more minutes.

In defense of Seth, he does a fair amount of playmaking/ball handling while he is out there as well.  JJax is pretty much a spot up shooter/opportunistic driver.  I am not knocking his game, just wasn't fair to say that their offensive roles were the same.  I actually have been surprised that he hasn't earned more minutes, but I still think it comes down to a group of 5 players (6 if you count DWarp's time on the floor with Luka) that all need minutes at the 2/3 and a coach's decision on how they get handed out based on team dynamics - on and off the floor.  If there were an injury or trade and minutes were freed up, I don't think many people would complain that he got more opportunity.  It is splitting hairs continuing to try to justify cutting someone else's minutes.  Generally, they have all played well and deserve minutes for a variety of reasons.  

DFS is the best defender of the group and his offense hasn't been terrible.  He is earning minutes.

THJ is a legit spot up shooter and plays good team defense and is a connecting player on offense.  The delta in his performance as a starter vs bench player is so significant that it is imperative that he starts.  And he has been good and earned his minutes.

DWarp has commanded minutes as Luka's backup at PG and his minutes that he shares the floor with him eat into the available time.  He has earned his minutes.

That leaves the group of Brunson/Curry/JJax.  RC tries to alleviate the logjam a little bit by playing JJax out of position at the 4 at times.  But those are all good players that need minutes and none of them are getting a ton of run - with Curry getting the most minutes. Barring an injury/trade situation or someone's play falling off, This isn't going to change much and hopefully, the Mavs can keep blowing people out and resting Luka. 

That is one of the least talked about things on this board actually.  The Mavs are playing this well and have their two stars playing in the low 30's in minutes and no one else really much over 25.  The Mavs are a fresh team with room to expand minutes if needed to win games or when the playoffs come.  So underrated!

[mavsluvr]

Jackson hasn't played wing all season. He's had great success as a small ball four but those minutes are limited.

Actually, according to bball reference's position estimate, he plays small forward about 41% of the time. 

In addition, shooting is pretty much the only thing JJ is above average at. There are much better rebounders and defenders at his position, so he is usually put in when a a scoring punch is needed. Love the guy, but unless he develops more of an all-around game, his role will probably remain situational. Which is okay, as long as he doesn't mind. Bench specialists matter!

Shooting is the only thing he's above average at? I would agree but couldn't you say the same thing about Seth Curry? One is playing a consistent 21 mins per game and the other nearly half that, sometimes not even playing at all. 

Lets revisit the OP's question: why is Jackson getting inconsistent minutes? 

Jackson so far is severely outplaying Seth in the shooting department. He has more size and gives you more boards. Analytically, he's providing much more defense. What more does he have to do?

Seth has somewhat underperformed this season, for reasons I don't entirely understand. Having said that, Jackson is not interchangeable with Seth. Jackson is a forward. Seth is a guard. Different expectations come with their different roles. You might as well say that Luka should take a slice of KP's minutes. Carlisle is on record as valuing Seth's playmaking highly, and that is something that Jackson doesn't offer. 

Also, guys deep in the rotation generally don't get consistent minutes. That's the NBA for you. Rick has to evaluate guys at the forward positions and determine who is likely to be the best choice, given the team's objectives, at any given time. Jackson hasn't played consistent minutes because Rick believes there are better options unless he particularly needs a shooting specialist at forward off the bench in any certain situation. We don't have to agree with him, but we don't have to be mystified by it, either. 

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I think we all know the answer to your question BB. 

Age and salary. That is why he isn't playing more minutes.

[Fuerza1]

In defense of Seth, he does a fair amount of playmaking/ball handling while he is out there as well.  JJax is pretty much a spot up shooter/opportunistic driver.  I am not knocking his game, just wasn't fair to say that their offensive roles were the same.  I actually have been surprised that he hasn't earned more minutes, but I still think it comes down to a group of 5 players (6 if you count DWarp's time on the floor with Luka) that all need minutes at the 2/3 and a coach's decision on how they get handed out based on team dynamics - on and off the floor.  If there were an injury or trade and minutes were freed up, I don't think many people would complain that he got more opportunity.  It is splitting hairs continuing to try to justify cutting someone else's minutes.  Generally, they have all played well and deserve minutes for a variety of reasons.  

That leaves the group of Brunson/Curry/JJax.  RC tries to alleviate the logjam a little bit by playing JJax out of position at the 4 at times.  But those are all good players that need minutes and none of them are getting a ton of run - with Curry getting the most minutes. Barring an injury/trade situation or someone's play falling off, This isn't going to change much and hopefully, the Mavs can keep blowing people out and resting Luka. 

That is one of the least talked about things on this board actually.  The Mavs are playing this well and have their two stars playing in the low 30's in minutes and no one else really much over 25.  The Mavs are a fresh team with room to expand minutes if needed to win games or when the playoffs come.  So underrated!

First off, thanks for an eloquent, well thought out response. It's hard to get that around here nowadays. You truly are a Mavs fan. 

Now, I have to counterpoint with Jackson and Seth's offensive role being a lot more similar than you think. Seth is coming off the bench with Delon and Brunson, both being far superior passers than Seth. His "playmaking" isn't all too noticeable now, and it's arguably not needed at all when he shares the court with those two.

As a result, Seth is very much a stand around the 3PT line guy with an occasional drive/pull-up. It was this way when he started too, Luka dominated the ball outside of a couple games. For both, 50% or more of their shots come from catch 'n shoot opportunities, primarily from 3PT range. Maybe you're seeing different things in games than me idk.

At least with JJax, you get more rebounding and size, which imo is always more needed on this team. Furthermore, Seth has the worst defensive rating on the team. He is also 6 years older than JJax, this is as good as he's gonna get.

The allure with JJax, as you and others probably already know, is that with youth comes upside. There's more room for improvement and the JJax pushers are curious to see if that gets tapped into with more playing time. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph, fantastic point!

[fifteenth]

It's hard to get that around here nowadays.

Seriously? I find lots of thoughtful posts and posters around here these days.

[mavsluvr]

It's hard to get that around here nowadays.

Seriously? I find lots of thoughtful posts and posters around here these days.

Definitely!

[Mavsfan12]

In defense of Seth, he does a fair amount of playmaking/ball handling while he is out there as well.  JJax is pretty much a spot up shooter/opportunistic driver.  I am not knocking his game, just wasn't fair to say that their offensive roles were the same.  I actually have been surprised that he hasn't earned more minutes, but I still think it comes down to a group of 5 players (6 if you count DWarp's time on the floor with Luka) that all need minutes at the 2/3 and a coach's decision on how they get handed out based on team dynamics - on and off the floor.  If there were an injury or trade and minutes were freed up, I don't think many people would complain that he got more opportunity.  It is splitting hairs continuing to try to justify cutting someone else's minutes.  Generally, they have all played well and deserve minutes for a variety of reasons.  

That leaves the group of Brunson/Curry/JJax.  RC tries to alleviate the logjam a little bit by playing JJax out of position at the 4 at times.  But those are all good players that need minutes and none of them are getting a ton of run - with Curry getting the most minutes. Barring an injury/trade situation or someone's play falling off, This isn't going to change much and hopefully, the Mavs can keep blowing people out and resting Luka. 

That is one of the least talked about things on this board actually.  The Mavs are playing this well and have their two stars playing in the low 30's in minutes and no one else really much over 25.  The Mavs are a fresh team with room to expand minutes if needed to win games or when the playoffs come.  So underrated!

First off, thanks for an eloquent, well thought out response. It's hard to get that around here nowadays. You truly are a Mavs fan. 

Now, I have to counterpoint with Jackson and Seth's offensive role being a lot more similar than you think. Seth is coming off the bench with Delon and Brunson, both being far superior passers than Seth. His "playmaking" isn't all too noticeable now, and it's arguably not needed at all when he shares the court with those two.

As a result, Seth is very much a stand around the 3PT line guy with an occasional drive/pull-up. It was this way when he started too, Luka dominated the ball outside of a couple games. For both, 50% or more of their shots come from catch 'n shoot opportunities, primarily from 3PT range. Maybe you're seeing different things in games than me idk.

At least with JJax, you get more rebounding and size, which imo is always more needed on this team. Furthermore, Seth has the worst defensive rating on the team. He is also 6 years older than JJax, this is as good as he's gonna get.

The allure with JJax, as you and others probably already know, is that with youth comes upside. There's more room for improvement and the JJax pushers are curious to see if that gets tapped into with more playing time. 

Completely agree with your last paragraph, fantastic point!

Yeah, I see Seth's game differently.  While not functioning as the primary ballhandler, he is part of what RC has praised as being a connecting player.  While he certainly gets more assists than JJax, he also has a lot of hockey assists too.  It is a part of Seth's game that I have always appreciated.  While their primary function (and the source of most of their shots) is to be a spacer and knock down outlet, what they do when they are not shooting is somewhat different.   

That said, I actually agree with your other points.  1and2) with Brunson/DWarp out there, is that a bigger need than, say height/rebounding/defense that maybe JJax is better at?  3) youth is an asset.  no doubt.  So is finding out what you have in the player and developing him to his full potential.

I would add that so far this season, JJax has performed the primary role at a more efficient clip than Seth.  It is early, and Seth's track record certainly gives him the benefit here, but that would be the case I would make for JJax.  He has been pretty elite so far this season - ranking in the top 10 for 3pt% in the league.

Lastly, while this post has compared Seth/JJax, I would actually think it was Brunson who's play has not been up to par this season out of the 3.  His 3pt shot has really fallen off, but even he has found his niche by being an attacker into the paint.  Haha.  It goes round and round.  Lots of pretty good options to choose from here!!!  Also, since they are really all playing together for most of their time on the court, there isn't a substantial amount of time that can really be reallocated between the 3 of those players any way.  It makes for an interesting discussion though!

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It's hard to get that around here nowadays.

Seriously? I find lots of thoughtful posts and posters around here these days.

I do too.  Thanks for the kudos, but this place rocks.

[Fuerza1]

Yeah, I see Seth's game differently.  While not functioning as the primary ballhandler, he is part of what RC has praised as being a connecting player.  While he certainly gets more assists than JJax, he also has a lot of hockey assists too.  It is a part of Seth's game that I have always appreciated.  While their primary function (and the source of most of their shots) is to be a spacer and knock down outlet, what they do when they are not shooting is somewhat different.   

That said, I actually agree with your other points.  1and2) with Brunson/DWarp out there, is that a bigger need than, say height/rebounding/defense that maybe JJax is better at?  3) youth is an asset.  no doubt.  So is finding out what you have in the player and developing him to his full potential.

I would add that so far this season, JJax has performed the primary role at a more efficient clip than Seth.  It is early, and Seth's track record certainly gives him the benefit here, but that would be the case I would make for JJax.  He has been pretty elite so far this season - ranking in the top 10 for 3pt% in the league.

Lastly, while this post has compared Seth/JJax, I would actually think it was Brunson who's play has not been up to par this season out of the 3.  His 3pt shot has really fallen off, but even he has found his niche by being an attacker into the paint.  Haha.  It goes round and round.  Lots of pretty good options to choose from here!!!  Also, since they are really all playing together for most of their time on the court, there isn't a substantial amount of time that can really be reallocated between the 3 of those players any way.  It makes for an interesting discussion though!

You're in luck. There's actually a "hockey assist" statistic NBA tracks called the secondary assist: https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?C...TION*E*dal&sort=SECONDARY_AST&dir=1

Seth averages 0.2 per game; JJax averages 0.1 per game. Considering one plays 8 more mins than the other, it's a wash from a statistical standpoint. 

I think both are high bball IQ guys than know how to move the ball around. I just prefer JJax's potential, size, and slight rebounding/defensive advantage over Seth. 

As for Brunson, his 3PT shot has been surprisingly abysmal. But yes he is killing it inside the paint with his rim attacking (54% from 2PT) and playmaking (second highest AST% on team). He is also quietly a plus defender (best defensive rating on the team), and rebounds well for his size. According to advanced analytics, Brunson is outplaying Seth by a good margin despite getting less opportunity. And I'll leave it at that.

Great discussion Mavs fan!! Number 12 on here but number 1 in our hearts.

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@"mavsluvr" check out my previous post, I touched on some of your points. But I will add that it seems like you're under the impression Carlisle has him buried on the bench because he's the inferior player even though all the data thus far proves otherwise. I think it has more to do with optics or politics, and we'll leave it at that.

[Mavsfan12]

I was more going with what RC said about him - not specifically a vague stat on hockey assists.  lol.  He connects the offense.  He has said that about THJ as well.  Look, he likes those guys.  They haven't been sucking.  I  have said that I don't think anyone would complain if JJax got more time.  I have tried to think of some basis of why it is what it has been.  I will throw out a final conspiracy theory that they are trying to keep him a secret since they know they are making a trade and want the other team to take someone else.  haha.  After that, I guess I will point at the Coach and leave it at that.     

[mavsluvr]

Yeah, I see Seth's game differently.  While not functioning as the primary ballhandler, he is part of what RC has praised as being a connecting player.  While he certainly gets more assists than JJax, he also has a lot of hockey assists too.  It is a part of Seth's game that I have always appreciated.  While their primary function (and the source of most of their shots) is to be a spacer and knock down outlet, what they do when they are not shooting is somewhat different.   

That said, I actually agree with your other points.  1and2) with Brunson/DWarp out there, is that a bigger need than, say height/rebounding/defense that maybe JJax is better at?  3) youth is an asset.  no doubt.  So is finding out what you have in the player and developing him to his full potential.

I would add that so far this season, JJax has performed the primary role at a more efficient clip than Seth.  It is early, and Seth's track record certainly gives him the benefit here, but that would be the case I would make for JJax.  He has been pretty elite so far this season - ranking in the top 10 for 3pt% in the league.

Lastly, while this post has compared Seth/JJax, I would actually think it was Brunson who's play has not been up to par this season out of the 3.  His 3pt shot has really fallen off, but even he has found his niche by being an attacker into the paint.  Haha.  It goes round and round.  Lots of pretty good options to choose from here!!!  Also, since they are really all playing together for most of their time on the court, there isn't a substantial amount of time that can really be reallocated between the 3 of those players any way.  It makes for an interesting discussion though!

You're in luck. There's actually a "hockey assist" statistic NBA tracks called the secondary assist: https://stats.nba.com/players/passing/?C...TION*E*dal&sort=SECONDARY_AST&dir=1

Seth averages 0.2 per game; JJax averages 0.1 per game. Considering one plays 8 more mins than the other, it's a wash from a statistical standpoint. 

I think both are high bball IQ guys than know how to move the ball around. I just prefer JJax's potential, size, and slight rebounding/defensive advantage over Seth. 

As for Brunson, his 3PT shot has been surprisingly abysmal. But yes he is killing it inside the paint with his rim attacking (54% from 2PT) and playmaking (second highest AST% on team). He is also quietly a plus defender (best defensive rating on the team), and rebounds well for his size. According to advanced analytics, Brunson is outplaying Seth by a good margin despite getting less opportunity. And I'll leave it at that.

Great discussion Mavs fan!! Number 12 on here but number 1 in our hearts.

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@"mavsluvr" check out my previous post, I touched on some of your points. But I will add that it seems like you're under the impression Carlisle has him buried on the bench because he's the inferior player even though all the data thus far proves otherwise. I think it has more to do with optics or politics, and we'll leave it at that.

I don't necessarily think Carlisle believes either player is inferior to the other. I do think he doesn't consider them as fungible. Just like he doesn't think Seth and Maxi or Powell are interchangeable. They have different jobs. I don't think RC cares about optics or politics, except of course to whatever degree is necessary to please his boss. Interesting to go through the thought exercise, though!