12-11-2023, 10:31 AM
KillerLeft:
Not to mention that I disagree with the idea that Collins fits better here than THJ.
I guess I'm the only one who's in love with Hardaway's fit as 6th man.
Man, if O-Max can become even just the 10th-11th guy by the end of this season, this whole thing changes significantly for the better.
THERE'S your Williams replacement. Just have to be patient.
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I've been meaning to get back to this for a while. BTW, thanks for removing the children from the board. This place is shrinking, but I don't think it helps to keep people around who ruin the experience for everyone else.
I actually look at OMax as the DJJ replacement. I get that OMax is bigger than a lot of 4's, but as we know from the DFS/GWill experiences, not all 4's (big wings if you prefer) can guard multiple positions. DJJ and OMax seem to be able to. GWill can't guard down but OMax probably can. Also, I'm not sure I love the Lively/OMax combo as a 5/4 combo.
When I proposed a higher dollar center to compliment Lively, many said 'No, the need is at the 4. But, when names come up, there isn't this universally accepted guy. Here's a sampling of what gets said around here (not by you particularly):
Siakam - He's a freaking multi-time All-NBA player and people complain about his 3 point shot
Grant - He's too small
Markkanen - Not enough D (and no chance anyway)
Olynyk - slow old white dude who doesn't rebound
PJ Washington - Not really good
Isaac - Too injury prone
Kuzma - Plays absolutely no D
Patrick Williams - Too passive (a Josh Green clone)
As pertains to Hardaway. THJ currently has a D-EPM of FOUR. Yes, 4. No number in front of it and no number behind it. Just a 4 (Hell, Kyle Kuzma is a 7 and he SUCKS at D). THJ's D-Rating is a career worst and team worst 120. His DBPM is also a career worst and team worst -3.1. So, it isn't like THJ is some stud we can't live without. When Dallas has a D-Rating in a game better than 120 (when we are better for a game than the worst D in the league), we are 11-0. So, I disagree with Omahen that small incremental improvements aren't valuable. I think a few more boards with some more size and some D make us kind of scary in a wide open west. If that can be accomplished without giving up 3 point shooting, all the better.
I don't have any super strong feelings about John Collins (other than I believe Ainge will flip him). But, he's shooting very similarly to THJ from 3 at .383 (vs 384 for THJ) and .442 from the corner (THJ is .366 from the corner). Collins is creating 40% of his made 2's this season and is .714 at the rim. THJ creates 35% of his 2's and is .506 at the rim. I don't agree the offense would suffer from a THJ/Collins swap.
But, what about Collins vs. the other choices at the four. We have to bear in mind that there is reporting out there that we had interest in Naz Reid this summer. We don't know if that was in addition to or instead of GWill, but Dallas was pursuing non-stars for this position (and got one in GWill). It isn't like Naz Reid is some fantastic rebounder. He doesn't shoot 3's as well as Collins and he's never been a plus player in On/Off. Yet, he was more universally endorsed than almost all of the names above.
I'll exempt Siakam and Markkanen as they aren't attainable in an in-season deal. But, when you compare Collins to PJ, Olynyk, Grant, Isaac, Kuzma and PWill, which of them has a better combination of rebounding and 3 point shooting and block rate? I kind of like the theoretical skill set of a mobile four who hits 3's, but can also post up and drive some and can help in the paint a little when Lively is drawn to the perimeter. Theoretically, that might be Maxi, except Maxi is a statue on offense and is rarely available. The other thing I kind of like is Utah may be more interested in draft capital than our young players. I like the depth chart that remains if it is just THJ and draft capital. In fact, this is what I mean when I talk about pushing GWill to the bench:
Lively/(Maxi/Powell/Holmes)
Collins/GWill
DJJ/OMax (GWill/Green in the playoffs)
Kyrie/Green
Luka/Exum
Sorry, I think that fixes some things. It isn't perfect (and we will never be satisfied that we have every spot adequately covered), but I wouldn't dismiss it either. Are we sure we are getting better than this by waiting until this summer?
Not to mention that I disagree with the idea that Collins fits better here than THJ.
I guess I'm the only one who's in love with Hardaway's fit as 6th man.
Man, if O-Max can become even just the 10th-11th guy by the end of this season, this whole thing changes significantly for the better.
THERE'S your Williams replacement. Just have to be patient.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I've been meaning to get back to this for a while. BTW, thanks for removing the children from the board. This place is shrinking, but I don't think it helps to keep people around who ruin the experience for everyone else.
I actually look at OMax as the DJJ replacement. I get that OMax is bigger than a lot of 4's, but as we know from the DFS/GWill experiences, not all 4's (big wings if you prefer) can guard multiple positions. DJJ and OMax seem to be able to. GWill can't guard down but OMax probably can. Also, I'm not sure I love the Lively/OMax combo as a 5/4 combo.
When I proposed a higher dollar center to compliment Lively, many said 'No, the need is at the 4. But, when names come up, there isn't this universally accepted guy. Here's a sampling of what gets said around here (not by you particularly):
Siakam - He's a freaking multi-time All-NBA player and people complain about his 3 point shot
Grant - He's too small
Markkanen - Not enough D (and no chance anyway)
Olynyk - slow old white dude who doesn't rebound
PJ Washington - Not really good
Isaac - Too injury prone
Kuzma - Plays absolutely no D
Patrick Williams - Too passive (a Josh Green clone)
As pertains to Hardaway. THJ currently has a D-EPM of FOUR. Yes, 4. No number in front of it and no number behind it. Just a 4 (Hell, Kyle Kuzma is a 7 and he SUCKS at D). THJ's D-Rating is a career worst and team worst 120. His DBPM is also a career worst and team worst -3.1. So, it isn't like THJ is some stud we can't live without. When Dallas has a D-Rating in a game better than 120 (when we are better for a game than the worst D in the league), we are 11-0. So, I disagree with Omahen that small incremental improvements aren't valuable. I think a few more boards with some more size and some D make us kind of scary in a wide open west. If that can be accomplished without giving up 3 point shooting, all the better.
I don't have any super strong feelings about John Collins (other than I believe Ainge will flip him). But, he's shooting very similarly to THJ from 3 at .383 (vs 384 for THJ) and .442 from the corner (THJ is .366 from the corner). Collins is creating 40% of his made 2's this season and is .714 at the rim. THJ creates 35% of his 2's and is .506 at the rim. I don't agree the offense would suffer from a THJ/Collins swap.
But, what about Collins vs. the other choices at the four. We have to bear in mind that there is reporting out there that we had interest in Naz Reid this summer. We don't know if that was in addition to or instead of GWill, but Dallas was pursuing non-stars for this position (and got one in GWill). It isn't like Naz Reid is some fantastic rebounder. He doesn't shoot 3's as well as Collins and he's never been a plus player in On/Off. Yet, he was more universally endorsed than almost all of the names above.
I'll exempt Siakam and Markkanen as they aren't attainable in an in-season deal. But, when you compare Collins to PJ, Olynyk, Grant, Isaac, Kuzma and PWill, which of them has a better combination of rebounding and 3 point shooting and block rate? I kind of like the theoretical skill set of a mobile four who hits 3's, but can also post up and drive some and can help in the paint a little when Lively is drawn to the perimeter. Theoretically, that might be Maxi, except Maxi is a statue on offense and is rarely available. The other thing I kind of like is Utah may be more interested in draft capital than our young players. I like the depth chart that remains if it is just THJ and draft capital. In fact, this is what I mean when I talk about pushing GWill to the bench:
Lively/(Maxi/Powell/Holmes)
Collins/GWill
DJJ/OMax (GWill/Green in the playoffs)
Kyrie/Green
Luka/Exum
Sorry, I think that fixes some things. It isn't perfect (and we will never be satisfied that we have every spot adequately covered), but I wouldn't dismiss it either. Are we sure we are getting better than this by waiting until this summer?
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