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GAME 21: DAL (10-11) @ DET (6-18) | 125-131 OT loss
(12-02-2022, 10:42 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Dallas really needs an offseason similar to Portland's this year.   

Young prospect in Sharpe,
trade for a ready to win now veteran in Grant,
Interesting second round prospect, & probably one additional move.   
I think that is the easiest way to get things back on track.  

Note that you didn’t say second star…Grant isn’t that.  I think if you keep the right guys and jettison the right guys and do something like this, you give Luka the opportunity to do the heavy lifting come playoff time.  You’ve got some young guys with upside and you never know what Luka will do when the spotlight is shining bright.

But, this requires being proactive.  You have to tank to get Sharpe.  You have to sell off some assets now with an eye toward being competitive quickly.  Dallas/Luka won’t survive a multi-year tank.  It is one and done and you better have a plan that gets you hosting a playoff series in the first round of 2024.
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(12-02-2022, 11:37 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Note that you didn’t say second star…Grant isn’t that.  I think if you keep the right guys and jettison the right guys and do something like this, you give Luka the opportunity to do the heavy lifting come playoff time.  You’ve got some young guys with upside and you never know what Luka will do when the spotlight is shining bright.

But, this requires being proactive.  You have to tank to get Sharpe.  You have to sell off some assets now with an eye toward being competitive quickly.  Dallas/Luka won’t survive a multi-year tank.  It is one and done and you better have a plan that gets you hosting a playoff series in the first round of 2024.

I will be very surprised if the Mavs even consider this direction.   It may not be the best route either.  But I am so bummed watching this team and how they can improve their outlook quicker.  Tick..tock. 

Maybe it is something like the John Collins trade you mentioned.  Collins is out with a ankle injury.  I don't think it is a long term thing though but he could be viewed as a Grant level talent.

Cam Whitmore has not played yet this year.   He is probably after the top 3, but just by his highlights he is the type of player we need.   I am sure there are several weak points of his game outside of the highlights.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQUOB6YFAI
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The one huge thing about the Blazers situation that yall are missing is Dame's injury.  This team cannot tank unless Luka goes down.  If that happens then this conversation makes a lot more sense.
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(12-02-2022, 12:10 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: The one huge thing about the Blazers situation that yall are missing is Dame's injury.  This team cannot tank unless Luka goes down.  If that happens then this conversation makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, you are right.   There is no way Cuban or Nico will have a discussion with Luka to sit.   Not going to happen.    

But I am really worried about his workload.   What is he going to look like in February.  I pray we don't see a serious issue to being over worked.   I think there is a high chance we get a ankle sprain that causes him to miss two weeks or so.  I hope that it is it though.
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(12-02-2022, 12:10 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: The one huge thing about the Blazers situation that yall are missing is Dame's injury.  This team cannot tank unless Luka goes down.  If that happens then this conversation makes a lot more sense.

Did you watch him play D last night?

Someone mentioned that the formula for tanking is win at home and lose on the road...even to terrible teams.  Then, when people start trying more late in the season sell off some assets and manage your wins/losses more closely.  We don't need to tank all the way to the #1 slot in the draft.  Top six or seven with a shot of lottery luck is good enough.

I like the Collins idea.  I would be in favor of taking on multi-year salary as we sell assets if it meant getting a prospect of pick.
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The problem of this team is they have zero guys to pick up if Luka doesn't have a best night (which is impossible every night due to the workload he has). Luka can't even take a day off on defensive end, there is just no one to pick up the effort. Its not that Luka was the defensive problem against Detroit - outside of a couple of minutes, there was no one with any kind of effort. It seems the whole team is just waiting for Luka on both ends. When he is in god mode on offense they follow and when he does his best on defense they follow. If he is not in god mode, they can't win even against worst teams in the league. Besides the Robin they desperately need an energy leader. Someone who will push the team even if Luka can't. Green is not that (yet). Guys like Smart or Beverly come to mind...
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(12-02-2022, 11:54 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: John Collins


He has been the answer for years. I have been trying to tell y'all! Smile
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(12-02-2022, 12:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Did you watch him play D last night?

Someone mentioned that the formula for tanking is win at home and lose on the road...even to terrible teams.  Then, when people start trying more late in the season sell off some assets and manage your wins/losses more closely.  We don't need to tank all the way to the #1 slot in the draft.  Top six or seven with a shot of lottery luck is good enough.

I like the Collins idea.  I would be in favor of taking on multi-year salary as we sell assets if it meant getting a prospect of pick.

Oh I watched and it was a problem.  He needs to be more consistent, he seems to only care when the spotlight is on.  I would assume he'd put on a better effort at the garden tomorrow but also kind of concerned he may look hungover for the early game so we'll see on that.

Having said that, I stand by my statement that Luka can drag this team to too many wins for that pick to convey.  All these bad losses have SUCKED but they've all also been within reach.  This team simply doesn't have any urgency yet which is really painful to watch but that urgency HAS to kick in for a group of vets like this at some point.  Will it lead to a play in spot and/or first round exit?  Feels like a good chance currently but I would bet a lot of money the Knicks are drafting for us come summer time.
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(12-02-2022, 01:25 PM)Kammrath Wrote: He has been the answer for years. I have been trying to tell y'all! Smile


Maybe. But I'm not really sold on him just yet, or is Atlanta even willing to move him?  All I hear is speculation.
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(12-02-2022, 11:37 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Note that you didn’t say second star…Grant isn’t that.  I think if you keep the right guys and jettison the right guys and do something like this, you give Luka the opportunity to do the heavy lifting come playoff time.  You’ve got some young guys with upside and you never know what Luka will do when the spotlight is shining bright.

But, this requires being proactive.  You have to tank to get Sharpe.  You have to sell off some assets now with an eye toward being competitive quickly.  Dallas/Luka won’t survive a multi-year tank.  It is one and done and you better have a plan that gets you hosting a playoff series in the first round of 2024.

You don´t need to host a play-off series in 2024. Luka will know it, when he sees it. He´ll need a day, maybe a week, to understand Wembanyama/Scoot/Thompson brothers/Whitmore is my GUY. Once we have that #2 guy it does not matter anymore what happens immediately. That is what extends your timeline, not hosting a play-off series with Wood/Dinwiddie/THJ as your next best players. Luka knows this sh*t ain´t going nowhere without another guy.

Also the anti-tank argument that we need ALL our future draft assets to make a #2 star trade is so bogus. A top 8 pick this year has more trade value than any two future 1st round picks. 

This is the year to tank. Get Green and Hardy on the f****** floor. Identify some buy low candidates that have no long-term deals, but you can still control. Isaac/Bamba are the perfect candidates as they are expiring/non-guaranteed, but you can control them until 2024/2025 respectively, if they work out.

I think you can pull this off by trading Dinwiddie or Wood to a contender for a late 1st round pick: Nets (Wood) or Pelicans (Dinwiddie) come to mind. Then you immediately flip that late 1st + THJ to Orlando for Isaac.

You start the tank process with

Doncic/Ntilikina
Graham/Hardy
Green/Bullock
DFS/Kleber
Isaac/Powell

I´m not even sure this team would be much worse replacing THJ/Wood/Dinwiddie with Graham/Isaac and heavier minutes for Green, but every team that wants to lose can do it. Otherwise match-fixing in sports would not exist.

Nobody in the world can tell me

Doncic
Scoot
Green
DFS
Isaac

isn´t a better long-term outlook than

Doncic
Dinwiddie
Bullock
DFS
Powell

It´s so obvious what they need to do at this point. The Spurs tanked for Duncan, when Robinson was 32. You think they regret it? Our Robinson is a Batmanson and he is 24.
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(12-02-2022, 12:25 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I like the Collins idea.  I would be in favor of taking on multi-year salary as we sell assets if it meant getting a prospect of pick.


I made some tentative proposals in the last few days but it´s not exactly the most popular idea to turn bad contracts like THJs into even worse ones. It really depends on the compensation. What are teams willing to give up to get out of contracts in the THJ range. What is a fair compensation for an extra year of bad salary. Trades like...

THJ --> Duncan Robinson
SD --> Terry Rozier

Or one of the most interestings names that we never mention because we tend to focus on Collins. What about Deandre Hunter. He is going to make 20m in the future and it looks like the Hawks have two rookies that can easily replace his production.
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(12-02-2022, 01:57 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I made some tentative proposals in the last few days but it´s not exactly the most popular idea to turn bad contracts like THJs into even worse ones. It really depends on the compensation. What are teams willing to give up to get out of contracts in the THJ range. What is a fair compensation for an extra year of bad salary. Trades like...

THJ --> Duncan Robinson
SD --> Terry Rozier

Or one of the most interestings names that we never mention because we tend to focus on Collins. What about Deandre Hunter. He is going to make 20m in the future and it looks like the Hawks have two rookies that can easily replace his production.

Imho the whole idea of trading Collins is based around the pending $120M extension of Hunter. I also think people severely underestimate the level of player Collins is on both ends of the floor. Much better than Wood and it´s not even close imho.

The reason the Hawks have not traded him is that they want #1) draft asset compensation + #2) a replacement player at a cost-effective long-term contract.

And that is simply not something they will get, therefore this drags on forever. I´m sure if we approached them, they´d ask for a future 1st and DFS. That is the return they have in mind.

Just pointed out a way to get a Isaac/Bamba without giving up future assets, but that requires to give up your 2nd/3rd/4th best offensive players in the process. That´s what a tank is, but do you honestly believe Cuban wants to give up THJ/Dinwiddie/THJ for Isaac/Graham. The funniest part is that it never ever occurs to Cuban that the players returning could actually make the team better like a Utah right now or the Pacers with Sabonis/Oladipo.

That is the essence of GMing. You need to see things that others don´t and by that I don´t mean some 37 year old defensive anchor Joel Shaqtin. Undecided
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Nobody in the world can tell me

Doncic
Scoot
Green
DFS
Isaac




Are you speaking of Johnathan Isaac?   He hasn't played steady in 5 years because of injuries.  I wouldn't trade for him. Injuries might be in his DNA.
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(12-02-2022, 05:05 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: Nobody in the world can tell me

Doncic
Scoot
Green
DFS
Isaac




Are you speaking of Johnathan Isaac?   He hasn't played steady in 5 years because of injuries.  I wouldn't trade for him. Injuries might be in his DNA.

Isaac makes Porzingis look like an ironman. No thanks, kind of wish we got in on Bol Bol though speaking of Orlando
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(12-02-2022, 01:50 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Also the anti-tank argument that we need ALL our future draft assets to make a #2 star trade is so bogus. A top 8 pick this year has more trade value than any two future 1st round picks. 

I'm all for pick 8, unless the Mavs can get Siakam for THJ+Bertans+2 FRPs+Jason Kidd
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