GAME 6: ORL (1-6) @ DAL (3-3) | 114-105 win

[Kammrath]

But, is that really the question.  There are two versions of Wood thus far.  Solo-big Wood and Wood with Maxi.  Wood with Maxi seems to work.  D-Rating is 102 in 110 minutes.  I don’t have a good way to isolate the other Wood minutes, but that is really the question that needs to be answered.  My eye-test says they aren’t good.  Kidd’s actions and comments seem to indicate we won’t be seeing much of it no matter what, but if Wood solo-big is ever to evolve into something workable we need to see it in the brief glimpses those lineups are getting.

Here they are isolated:



1) They are worse defensively, but not as bad as the DFS minutes this year. Maybe Kidd should bench DFS and play Wood? (tongue in cheek)

2) They are still REALLY successful. +7.4 is GREAT. 

3) They are WAY better than Maxi-as-only-big minutes, which for the Luka/SD/DFS/RB/Maxi lineup are 132.6 DRtg (Net -32.6).

[KillerLeft]

Here they are isolated:



1) They are worse defensively, but not as bad as the DFS minutes this year. Maybe Kidd should bench DFS and play Wood? (tongue in cheek)

2) They are still REALLY successful. +7.4 is GREAT. 

3) They are WAY better than Maxi-as-only-big minutes, which for the Luka/SD/DFS/RB/Maxi lineup are 132.6 DRtg (Net -32.6).

I think that to @"DanSchwartzgan"'s point, if you dug deeper on those Wood solo minutes you'd find that that +7.4 came mostly against bench units, while Kleber's solo minutes are more in high pressure, closing situations against the other team's best lineups. 

BUT, that's fine! Wood CAN play center. By himself. It's a jumping off point, and nowhere near the terrible situation we were promised it would be. 

They should be trying to do it more, not less. I think @"mvossman"'s goal of 8 minutes per night is a good one, for starters.

[KillerLeft]

Is it an option to reverse the rotation and start with both Maxi + Wood? Something like...

1st quarter
6 min Maxi+Wood (most likely Bullock out of the starting five)
4 min Wood
2 min Powell

2nd quarter
3 min Powell
2 min Powell + Kleber
7 min Wood + Kleber

2nd half similar but with the option to go small and play some single big minutes to close the game. A lot easier to get the max amount of Wood+Kleber minutes without running into the problems we saw in the first few games. Wood racking up 10-12 minutes of play in the late 3rd and early 4th quarter. Making it almost impossible to include him in the closing lineup. 15 minutes without a breather aren´t an option in the regular season.

I would be all in favor of trying this. So in favor.

[Mavs2021]

How much longer until Wood's agent demands a trade behind closed doors? Kidd is clearly tanking his value in a contract year. I expect Wood will be professional due to the situation, but he can't be happy for this. He is clearly the 2nd best player on the team and be treated like a scrub.

If Wood´s agent demands a trade he´s a moron. A good agent knows that the Mavs never trade expiring contract. They are run down.

Best thing Wood can do is behave for 12 months, so his agent can sell this: He worked for 12 months for the dumbest franchise east of Sacramento and he behaved like a choir boy. He is a reformed man. 

The funniest part is that I wouldn´t be shocked, if Sweeney vouched for Wood, therefore Kidd plays mind games with him.

In the end Wood leaves in the summer, two weeks later Kidd is fired and Sweeney promoted to head coach.

[KillerLeft]

In the end Wood leaves in the summer, two weeks later Kidd is fired and Sweeney promoted to head coach.

Even if everything else you say comes to pass, there's no way Kidd will get fired that quickly without an arrest or some other nefarious thing. I bet he gets all of this season and all of next, no matter what.

Unless Luka wants him gone for some reason, of course.

[mvossman]

Maxi tends to only play about 24 a game.  So, if you stagger with 30 minute Wood, there just isn’t enough time for much overlap.  So far, it is the overlap minutes that have worked best.

I think mvossman is probably closer.  The team has shown zero inclination to play Wood as a solo big except in very brief spurts against bench units.  The one time they tried it, Kidd told the media “see, I knew it wouldn’t work”.  I’ve thought there could be some kind of adjustment as time went on and Wood got more comfortable in our system.  That may still happen, but the early evidence just isn’t good (if we are talking about what is happening vs. what some think should happen).

Thanks to Sefant and 1998 for adding to the discussion.  I really like the idea of Maxi/Wood/DFS/Bullock (or Green) and Luka starting and getting about 24 minutes as a unit.  That leaves about 6-8 minutes of Wood as the solo-big during transitions.  If you try to map out the full rotation, you run into an issue.  You kind of have to start DFS and you kind of have to play him at PF when Powell is in and Maxi and Wood are out and when Wood is in as the solo-big.  Dorian can’t play 48 minutes and we don’t really have another PF.  Short of trading for someone like Crowder, the solution is more Powell/McGee playing with Wood.  Short of that, it is hard to start Maxi/Wood and make sense of the rest of the rotation.

One other note on the Powell numbers.  Not that I want to disrespect what he’s done the last two games, but it has come against Orlando and OKC.  I like Luka and DP running PnR against bench units.  I’m not ready to start him full time against good teams.  McGee isn’t working either and as illustrated above, it is hard to make Maxi/Wood starting a thing unless DFS goes to the bench or Powell/McGee and Maxi eat up all of the Center minutes.  The other logical possibility is Wood/DFS starting at C/PF, but as I’ve said several times, Kidd has shown zero inclination toward that.

I'm thinking you could give DFS a breather when Max/Wood/Luka are on the court.  He could play 6 with them to start the game and 6 with them to finish.  The rest of his time would be playing power forward.  Maybe Bertans can give him a few minutes breather from that?

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think that to @"DanSchwartzgan"'s point, if you dug deeper on those Wood solo minutes you'd find that that +7.4 came mostly against bench units, while Kleber's solo minutes are more in high pressure, closing situations against the other team's best lineups. 

BUT, that's fine! Wood CAN play center. By himself. It's a jumping off point, and nowhere near the terrible situation we were promised it would be. 

They should be trying to do it more, not less. I think @"mvossman"'s goal of 8 minutes per night is a good one, for starters.

Yes to all of that.  I’m not anti Wood at C in those transition minutes against bench units.  I don’t think Kidd is either.  I’ve been the one pointing out exactly how Kidd is giving Wood those minutes in several of the games so far.

When I speak of transitioning to something more than that I’m talking about Wood starting or Wood getting ‘starter’ minutes.  Just opinion, but I do not think we will ever see a Wood/DFS starting C/PF lineup on a consistent basis.  If you take that as a given, then the ways Wood starts for this team and how you design rotations around that begin to narrow considerably especially given the limitations McGee and Powell have.

[KillerLeft]

Just opinion, but I do not think we will ever see a Wood/DFS starting C/PF lineup on a consistent basis.  If you take that as a given, then the ways Wood starts for this team and how you design rotations around that begin to narrow considerably especially given the limitations McGee and Powell have.

Yes to everything, up to and except for the above...kind of. 

I refuse to take that as a given, and think Kidd and the Mavs writing that in stone would be a huge mistake. 

That's not to say that I don't share some of the reservations about whether or not it would work consistently, it's just that for me, acquiescing to a paradigm in which Wood can't play center solo basically means putting developmental points into him at all is a waste of time. I'm cool with bringing this concept along slowly, with caution, but if you tell me it will definitely "never" happen, then I'm so out on him as a fit here it's not funny, and my thoughts quickly converge on "why did they trade that pick for him in the first place?"

[KillerLeft]

If @"Kammrath"'s stat, 45 minutes of solo-big Wood over 6 games, is correct, then I believe that puts him averaging 7.5 minutes per already. I don't think getting that to 8, then 10, with an eye on making it a viable option come playoff time is too much to ask. If all goes well, maybe he extends and then you're up to 18-20 minutes of that next season.

THEN, you might actually have something on BOTH ends of the floor.

[cow]

"why did they trade that pick for him in the first place?"

To dump the contracts of four players who contributing almost noting to the rotation along with getting to kick the tires on Wood who would at the very least be part of the rotation.

We knew Kidd was going to be a problem from the start when he said the offensive game plan was "to get the ball to Luka".  Yes, we can find success in that manner but I'm not sure you can get to a championship.  A blueprint to success seems to be to play Luka straight up for three quarters, encouraging him to drive more and thus wearing him out.  Then switch up the defense and have an additional defender in fatigue.  I just wish we could get some creativity to the offense that burdens him less.  I'd guess that Luka's teammates dribble the ball far fewer times than any other unit in the league.

And while I appreciated that we wanted Kidd to help bolster our defense and that our defense certainly needed to be bolstered, at some point you need to look at the pieces on your roster and play to their strengths instead of making them square pegs you are trying to fit into the round holes of your basketball philopshy.  Carlisle, for his many faults, was really good at turning chicken shit into chicken salad.  

And for what it's worth, Wood's last two games have been far worse than how he started the season.  Is that due to lack of minutes or Kidd's coaching?   Or maybe it's just a slump.   Or maybe that's just who he is.  If he was a consistent performer like we saw to start the season, he would have never been on this team in the first place.

[dynamicalVoid]

Im a casual...but based on Sefants Green +/- stats...would switching Spence with THJ and Bullock for Green in the starting lineup work? 

THJ takes care of the scoring in Spence spot plus the couple of 3s Bullock might make...Green takes Bullocks defensive roll.  Seems like it would/could work.

I just feel Green with Luka is the only way you get the most out of Green and his flaws on offense.  Plus Luka needs the best defenders around him to make up for his slowness.

[KillerLeft]

To dump the contracts of four players who contributing almost noting to the rotation along with getting to kick the tires on Wood who would at the very least be part of the rotation.

All of those dudes were expiring (except for maybe Boban?) so I'm not sure there was much value in dumping them. 

If "Wood would be at the very least (temporarily) part of the rotation" was the goal, I struggle to believe they couldn't have been successful aiming a little higher. 

The good news is that the kid is obviously talented. I don't believe those limits actually exist. I think he could be a really GOOD fit here, given time and the right approach.

---

We knew Kidd was going to be a problem from the start when he said the offensive game plan was "to get the ball to Luka".  Yes, we can find success in that manner but I'm not sure you can get to a championship.  A blueprint to success seems to be to play Luka straight up for three quarters, encouraging him to drive more and thus wearing him out.  Then switch up the defense and have an additional defender in fatigue.  I just wish we could get some creativity to the offense that burdens him less.  I'd guess that Luka's teammates dribble the ball far fewer times than any other unit in the league.

And while I appreciated that we wanted Kidd to help bolster our defense and that our defense certainly needed to be bolstered, at some point you need to look at the pieces on your roster and play to their strengths instead of making them square pegs you are trying to fit into the round holes of your basketball philopshy.  Carlisle, for his many faults, was really good at turning chicken shit into chicken salad.  

I'm aligned with all of this.

[cow]

Im a casual...but based on Sefants Green +/- stats...would switching Spence with THJ and Bullock for Green in the starting lineup work? 

THJ takes care of the scoring in Spence spot plus the couple of 3s Bullock might make...Green takes Bullocks defensive roll.  Seems like it would/could work.

I just feel Green with Luka is the only way you get the most out of Green and his flaws on offense.  Plus Luka needs the best defenders around him to make up for his slowness.

The problem with the starting lineup, in my view is that you have Luka, Dinwiddie and a very confused looking McGee which isn't a recipe for defensive success.  Swapping THJ for Spencer still leaves you with three poor defenders.  The immediate solution is to start Maxi or Powell.  

I'd like to see a larger sample size of Josh but I think we shouldn't tinker with that until after the TDL to see if we can move THJ.

[dynamicalVoid]

The problem with the starting lineup, in my view is that you have Luka, Dinwiddie and a very confused looking McGee which isn't a recipe for defensive success.  Swapping THJ for Spencer still leaves you with three poor defenders.  The immediate solution is to start Maxi or Powell.  

I'd like to see a larger sample size of Josh but I think we shouldn't tinker with that until after the TDL to see if we can move THJ.

I wasnt considering McGee a starter.  I should have placed my 5 in a list.  I was talking more of a Death lineup if Playoffs were starting tomorrow...my bad.

Luka
Green
THJ
DFS  or Maxi
Maxi or Wood

[cow]

All of those dudes were expiring (except for maybe Boban?) so I'm not sure there was much value in dumping them. 

If "Wood would be at the very least (temporarily) part of the rotation" was the goal, I struggle to believe they couldn't have been successful aiming a little higher. 

The good news is that the kid is obviously talented. I don't believe those limits actually exist. I think he could be a really GOOD fit here, given time and the right approach.

Moving off of 11.7 million in dead weight isn't free though.  We also needed the roster spots.  And combine those factors with returning Wood who is a rotational piece, they got AMAZING value for a late first round pick.  

I don't think Wood's talent has ever really been questioned.  It's always been consistency and his maturity.  I love how he works with Luka in the PNR, but I'm not sure his defense works with Luka's defense or if you can put enough defenders around them to achieve Kidd's philopshy.

[Smitty]

I don't think Wood's talent has ever really been questioned.  It's always been consistency and his maturity.  I love how he works with Luka in the PNR, but I'm not sure his defense works with Luka's defense or if you can put enough defenders around them to achieve Kidd's philopshy.

For all the talk of Wood's defensive deficiencies. Why don't we hold the lesser talented Dinwiddie to the same standard? Saying Wood can't do this or that - or doesn't fit here or there. Just swap Wood and Dinwiddie's name and that's how i see it. 

Spencer doesn't fit with Luka. Wood does. IMO

[cow]

For all the talk of Wood's defensive deficiencies. Why don't we hold the lesser talented Dinwiddie to the same standard? Saying Wood can't do this or that - or doesn't fit here or there. Just swap Wood and Dinwiddie's name and that's how i see it. 

Spencer doesn't fit with Luka. Wood does. IMO

I mentioned Dinwiddie above.  

Start:  Luka, Bullock, Green, DFS and Maxi/Powell.  Wood is the first off the bench, then Spencer, then THJ.  Use McGee to supplement Maxi/Powell.

[Smitty]

Start:  Luka, Bullock, Green, DFS and Maxi/Powell.  Wood is the first off the bench, then Spencer, then THJ.  Use McGee to supplement Maxi/Powell.

That's better than what they're doing now, so I'm in.

My preference is of course to start your second best player, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Chicagojk]

Before saying Green should start or potentially close, i would like to see him get above 20 minutes a night.   Maybe 25ish if he is playing well.   Lets see how he responds to 10-12 more minutes a night.   If he responds well, than that is good all the way around.

Question....if Bullock misses games do you think Kidd would start THJ or Green?

[Smitty]

Before saying Green should start or potentially close, i would like to see him get above 20 minutes a night.   Maybe 25ish if he is playing well.   Lets see how he responds to 10-12 more minutes a night.   If he responds well, than that is good all the way around.

Question....if Bullock misses games do you think Kidd would start THJ or Green?

I would be shocked if Green started a game this year with everyone healthy. THJ would be my guess.