EXTENSION: Maxi Kleber to DAL for 3 yrs/$33M (thru 2025-26, age 34)

[KillerLeft]

Guys, shooters go through slumps, but I'd put Kleber at about #2 or #3 on the "how our Mavs made Utah look inept" list. They put him in the corner and made Gobert live in actual hell trying to decide what to do. If we don't think every team in the league would want Kleber (to varying degrees, of course) then I'm not sure what to say. 

Bigs who can shoot are how you win now.

[cow]

Don't undersell his defense and versatility.

[cow]

Also, it's good to know the Würzburg Governance is still in place on the Mavs Charter.

[KillerLeft]

Don't undersell his defense and versatility.

Right, for sure. Those are the things that allow him to be on the floor for the stretches that matter. Otherwise, he'd just be Matt Bonner. He'd still be a valuable player, but it's the entire package that makes the shooting part work when you need it.

My last sentence should have read "playable bigs who can shoot are how you win now."

[IamDougieFresh]

Maxi Kleber is a championship player and I’m glad Nico sees it unlike some of you who un ironically thought Dwight was better

[ItsGoTime]

I wish Maxi didn’t have the back issues he has, but that is the reality. We’re playing Russian Roulette with our playoff run by using this much cap space to keep him. I hope there is no bullet in the chamber this time.

[cow]

Right, for sure. Those are the things that allow him to be on the floor for the stretches that matter. Otherwise, he'd just be Matt Bonner. He'd still be a valuable player, but it's the entire package that makes the shooting part work when you need it.

My last sentence should have read "playable bigs who can shoot are how you win now."

To be clear, I wasn't calling you out.  A lot of what Maxi brings to the court doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

[KillerLeft]

To be clear, I wasn't calling you out.  A lot of what Maxi brings to the court doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Yeah, I didn't think you were. I just agreed with you and saw an opportunity to nuance my point.

[mvossman]

I wish Maxi didn’t have the back issues he has, but that is the reality. We’re playing Russian Roulette with our playoff run by using this much cap space to keep him. I hope there is no bullet in the chamber this time.

This signing was a fairly strong signal that we have no intention of going plan powder any time soon.  We will be operating over the cap.  In fact, if we have any interest in being a true contender in the near future we should probably plan on being in the tax.  Under those conditions, the only possible negative of this contract is Cuban's checkbook.  I really don't see how it could impact a playoff run.

[ItsGoTime]

This signing was a fairly strong signal that we have no intention of going plan powder any time soon.  We will be operating over the cap.  In fact, if we have any interest in being a true contender in the near future we should probably plan on being in the tax.  Under those conditions, the only possible negative of this contract is Cuban's checkbook.  I really don't see how it could impact a playoff run.

We have talked about $1-2M here and there that could get us to this or that scenario. How can this be lost on you? If it comes out that there are incentives to get to the full number based on games or minutes played, I’m fully happy with the contract. Otherwise, just like Powell was an overpay, this is too. Over the cap is a great development, over the taxpayer threshold is not.

[mvossman]

We have talked about $1-2M here and there that could get us to this or that scenario. How can this be lost on you? If it comes out that there are incentives to get to the full number based on games or minutes played, I’m fully happy with the contract. Otherwise, just like Powell was an overpay, this is too. Over the cap is a great development, over the taxpayer threshold is not.

Those conversations have generally been when cap space was in play (like the Westbrook trade scenario) or salary matching.  They don't apply nearly as much now.  It's nice to be under the taxpayer threshold, but here are the payrolls of the contenders:

Clippers:   195 mil
Warriors:  194 mil
Bucks:      180 mil
Boston:     176 mil

Given this FOs ineptitude, I don't see any chance they are going to be able to seriously compete with these teams unless they are in the same neighborhood spending wise.  That means being a taxpayer.

Also, if you are comparing this contract with Powell's, then we are on different pages from a player evaluation standpoint.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, if you are comparing this contract with Powell's, then we are on different pages from a player evaluation standpoint.

Huh? Overpaying Powell at his last extension is comparing the players? Don’t know how you get to that conclusion, but at the time of Powell’s last extension I thought and said it was an overpay and that Maxi and Powell’s contracts should be at Maxi’s level of pay (this was before he got injured). People replied about why I was quibbling over a few million dollars then too.

[Jason Terry]

I think another part to this is teams are probably asking about Maxi in trade talks(to get us to include him instead of DP). This ends that. Now when we talk to teams he’s automatically one of the unavailable players. To me this says we are trying to make another move using THJ and/or DP in a dump to bring in a better fitting piece

[Jym]

Hopefully Wood and Maxi mesh really well together then can we go ahead and extend him in-season. His number would be $17.5 mil or lower?
Very reasonable if his impact can match his numbers

[mvossman]

Huh? Overpaying Powell at his last extension is comparing the players? Don’t know how you get to that conclusion, but at the time of Powell’s last extension I thought and said it was an overpay and that Maxi and Powell’s contracts should be at Maxi’s level of pay (this was before he got injured). People replied about why I was quibbling over a few million dollars then too.

Well the contracts are just about identical (actually Maxi is less because its years later and the cap is higher).  My point was that while I thought the Powell extension was an overpay, I value Maxi quite a bit more than Powell, so I don't consider this an overpay (I doubt the market does either).

They are also different situations.  The Powell extension was done at a time when we were on Luka rookie contract and potential to operate under the cap.  Every last dollar was crucial from a cap perspective.  That is no longer the case.  I'm not saying I want to overpay every contract, but a few mil here or there means less now than it did a couple of years ago.

[Scott41theMavs]

Huh? Overpaying Powell at his last extension is comparing the players? Don’t know how you get to that conclusion, but at the time of Powell’s last extension I thought and said it was an overpay and that Maxi and Powell’s contracts should be at Maxi’s level of pay (this was before he got injured). People replied about why I was quibbling over a few million dollars then too.

What do Powell and Maxi have in common? Answer - injury problems make each of their most recent extensions baffling and frustrating. Powell's more than Maxi's, though.

[mvossman]

Hopefully Wood and Maxi mesh really well together then can we go ahead and extend him in-season. His number would be $17.5 mil or lower?
Very reasonable if his impact can match his numbers

Yep.  I think the biggest issue is if he can avoid being a negative on defense, and probably our best chance at that is to pair him with Maxi.

---

What do Powell and Maxi have in common? Answer - injury problems make each of their most recent extensions baffling and frustrating. Powell's more than Maxi's, though.

Actually Powell's injury came after his extension.  He was healthy as a horse when he signed that extension.  Things might have played out differently if he never had that injury, but I never understood why we extended him over the MLE (I think back then it was 9).  That same contract now that Maxi signed makes more sense at roughly the current MLE.

[cow]

What do Powell and Maxi have in common? Answer - injury problems make each of their most recent extensions baffling and frustrating. Powell's more than Maxi's, though.

To be fair, Powell's injury happened after his most recent contract.  He probably wasn't worth the price even prior to that but I understand the MBT's thinking in that Powell was Dirk's torture bearer from a culture standpoint.

I'm not sure if that makes the Maxi extension better or worse in the eyes of those questioning it.

[ItsGoTime]

It's nice to be under the taxpayer threshold, but here are the payrolls of the contenders:

Clippers:   195 mil
Warriors:  194 mil
Bucks:      180 mil
Boston:     176 mil

Please don’t tell me the quality of the players on our team are on par with the players on those teams. I have no problem spending Cuban’s money when we have the right players in the most important places. We’re building the team backwards and the bench overflows to the starting unit. 


Being over the taxpayer threshold limits our use of the picks we’re about to have access to because we don’t have the ability to bring in more salary than is outgoing and we don’t have the other assets to make up the difference. This is the reason we constantly have to say, other teams can beat that offer.

I’m almost to the point that I wish they would just get off every contract except Luka and DFS’s and start from scratch.

[mvossman]

Please don’t tell me the quality of the players on our team are on par with the players on those teams. I have no problem spending Cuban’s money when we have the right players in the most important places. We’re building the team backwards and the bench overflows to the starting unit. 


Being over the taxpayer threshold limits our use of the picks we’re about to have access to because we don’t have the ability to bring in more salary than is outgoing and we don’t have the other assets to make up the difference. This is the reason we constantly have to say, other teams can beat that offer.

I’m almost to the point that I wish they would just get off every contract except Luka and DFS’s and start from scratch.

Personally I think if you add a SGA or Siakam or somebody like that and keep our top 6 or 7 players we are at those teams level because of Luka.  

As for trade matching, you can do 125% trade matching while over the tax.  The value of having a lot of salary when making that big trade is that you can send out filler and picks and still keep your core (who a rebuilding team probably does not want anyways).  Its a very similar path the Bucks took.  We don't have a Middleton, but we do have more quality role players.  I think we just need that number 2.

I see no path to contention or holding onto Luka by stripping it down to the bolts and starting over.  With all of the extensions getting handed out these days, there is very little available in free agency.  You are also bringing your payroll down to the cap level plus exceptions.  That process would take years to do right and we don't have that kind of time regarding Luka.  The only option I see is big spending plus a big trade with picks.  It would be different if this FO was better since the Luka draft, but it hasn't been.