ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[DanSchwartzgan]

Ah, I see. 

Well, basketball is and will always be a sport where size and length matters. You basically want your great basketball players to be longer and more physical than the opponent's great basketball players. I think we'd all agree about that. 

The disagreements come up, I believe, when we can't all agree on the qualifies for the "great" that I just typed before "basketball players." I believe that some only see the size ("only" might be a bit strong, but I don't mean it literally, I'm just not that great of a writer) and often miss the impact of the requisite skills that make that size advantageous in the first place. In other words, give me someone with the right skills for a position over someone with the right size for that position if I have to choose and can't have both. 

Hence my love affair for DFS. He has ideal size for the 3, but his skills seem to be more ideal for the 4. Those who are irked by undersized players at any position and seem to zero in on that (again, at any position) as a major roster-building error that must be fixed for the team to succeed have always had a problem with him here, only giving him praise reluctantly. Those who don't have that hangup to an extreme degree have always seemed more likely to accept him. 

But, even his biggest supporters (I might be his biggest) would admit that he's far from a perfect player. He is very limited, offensively, and is basically the ideal "glue guy" or "connector" to use a few terms we throw around regularly. 

Is my goal to upgrade DFS? No. But, a common complaint from those here who fall all over the opinion spectrum is about size up front. 

Some people think that size should come from the center position, particularly. I, myself, think that the way the game is changing, that extra couple of inches from one player is likely to come at the detriment to the kind of movement and fluidity you need from all 5 players in order to play competitive basketball at the highest level. So, to me, you want to increase your team size, not your center size. This explanation is lacking a bit of nuance, but it's basically how I feel. 

When I look at the roster, I see Wood as not only a center, but the type of center who I believe is the prototypical dream. What I don't see is a prototypical 4. DFS is good, and far from an area that needs to be upgraded, in a vacuum, but, it's just factual that the roster doesn't have a 6'9", 6'10" guy with the fluidity needed to play forward on a big-minute basis. Some view Kleber as that player, and to be fair, he's pretty close, but I have thought for several seasons now that he's even better as a 5, and his ideal role in this league is probably as as bench "connector" who can backfill both positions, giving you flexible options to attack/defend different ways. 

The Kawhi Leonard, LeBron, Jerami Grant, Aaron Gordon, Siakim, Obi Toppin, Kuzma, Hachimura, Vanderbilt, etc, etc, etc, guy just isn't here, imo. Talking about size/movement packages, not anything specific about skills (yet). 

There are a TON of different ways to add one of those. If, somehow, you're able to get LeBron, all of a sudden I'm not so protective of DFS's role so much, know what I mean? If the player you get is Rui, then I think he's another tool to throw into the mix but probably plays behind DFS at the 4 to start out. 

So it's not about looking at DFS and wanting to upgrade him - it's just a part of the equation that I, personally, don't think they have on the roster yet. What I'm saying is that more forward options seem to me that they'd be infinitely more likely to come in handy than another 3rd center. THOSE are the names we throw around that seem pointless to me, but the player I'm envisioning would likely assuage SOME of the valid concerns that people who are convinced that big dinosaur is what's needed bring up. Does that make sense? I hope so. Again, I'm not always articulate enough to get my thinking across accurately. 

The problem is if you're adding that 4, depending on how good they are right away, you run the risk of displacing DFS to the 3...to the bench...whatever. Maybe it works GREAT with him moving to the 3, but with the specific type of player Luka seems to need to guard, I'm not so sure such a move wouldn't bump DFS down TWO positions, defensively, which is real foot speed risk, imho. Maybe he becomes the perfect bench forward (PERFECT) but then we'd need to reconcile ourselves with a re-examination of his extension. I'd still be fine with it, I THINK, but it would be a little tougher to justify, especially if it cause roster building problems moving forward from that point. 

I could get in the weeds typing words about this all day (that like three people will actually read) but the bottom line is that upgrading DFS isn't really the motivation for me here, just an indirect consequence, potentially. 

You bring up Hardaway, so let me clarify my feelings there. I do defend him, but only in the context of him being here and being used in a way where he can contribute positively. I assume upgrading him is something they're looking at, and I hope they can do it. What I don't agree with is the idea that simply benching him in favor of players who are already here would in any way represent positive change. I think that's FAAAAAAR from true. But I'm in no way trying to suggest that they should make decisions with their front court that protect Hardaway's role, somehow. 

To me, this conversation has nothing to do with Hardaway whatsoever, as his role wouldn't change based on this nebulous incoming player and/or DFS. I think what you're saying is "why isn't that what we're talking about instead" and I can see where you're coming from with that, but...again, there currently isn't a player like what I'm describing on the roster to be upgraded, so that seems more glaring (to me) and honestly, much more realistic. Players who can upgrade the role they are asking Hardaway to play are really hard to get, imo. Conley is a name that we've discussed today who might do the trick. I'd be all over that Vanderbilt/Conley package. 

Is this coming anywhere near addressing your point? I hope so, but not sure.

This may be one of your best posts ever.

IF, repeating IF the coach/front office come around to seeing Wood like you do, then you next figure out what is missing in the equation beyond Wood/Luka.  I’m not convinced we are there yet and I’m not convinced Wood is an above average defender at the five.  But, he really is a great fit offensively.

The focus of where you go next has to be at the defensive end.  I like the idea that Maxi is a very good 5/4 off the bench and I see DFS as much the same in terms of being a 4/3 if we had someone good enough to move him to that spot.  What a luxury.  Somewhere there is room for a big who can come in and take some fouls against the few remaining beast centers.  But, that person doesn’t have to start.

I agree that Vanderbilt fits the type we are describing.  He needs to be able to guard a lot of those guys on the list you provided with length and mobility while also helping with the boards and protecting the paint when Wood is dragged into a PnR and gets beat.  It would be nice if this player could do more with the ball than DFS.  It doesn’t have to be Vanderbilt, but that is the type I’m envisioning and I agree we don’t have it yet (Vandy does set good picks and is hitting corner 3’s, but he has also had several big assist games that Dorian has never really dreamed of having).

I also think he would make the starting lineup better.  You can start games with Wood/Vand/THJ/SD/Luka, but any of Maxi/DFS/Green could sub in and finish a game as needed.  I mean, that’s essentially 8 starters and if Conley came in the deal, you now have recreated someone to play the role Dinwiddie played last season.  This is probably a better team than the one that went to the WCF’s last season.  Ultimately, it comes down to whether we can fill in gaps and play Luka and 8 guys who are 3rd-5th starters or whether we need to Marshall resources to get a true #2.  I personally think Luka can be #1 and #2 if the others are good enough.    So, if the right deal comes along and we can turn Reggie and someone into a couple of useful guys that fit the level of Vandy/Conley, I give up a pick and give Luka a fighting chance…especially if at least one of those guys is younger.