ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[dynamicalVoid]

Great post KL. Totally agree about running more plays to get THJ good looks. I think I said that after game 1 or 2 and they’ve only run less for him since! Not ready to give up on Timmy yet. If only, as others have said to boost his value. But we also need his scoring. He has been a little better defensively even lately.

This take isnt aging well

[ThisIStheYear]

We’re now about 50 games into this version of Hardaway. He’s been below replacement all the way through. I predicted last season when he was injured that it would help the Mavs immensely because those minutes could go to Brunson and other useful players. I was right then (most disagreed) and the same situation still holds. He has no on court value. He’s just a chunker, or really a clunker. All he does for 49 games now is fire up misses. Why wait for an injury this season?  Just bench him now and give his minutes to Green and Dorsey. It’s really simple. He nearly single handedly lost a game last night, and there will be more to come. Why suffer losses just because you stupidly gave a huge contract to a below replacement level player?  Cut your losses. Move on. Do a better job in the future when evaluating your own players. THJ has already cost Cuban an incredible chunk of money, and also truthfully the team’s second best player.  Why allow him to cost even more?

And all this talk about fit and roles is ridiculous. He just can’t shoot anymore.  He can’t do it. I don’t know why, but he’s has no stroke for 50 games. There is no role or fit for a one dimensional shooter who can’t freaking shoot.

[dynamicalVoid]

We’re now about 50 games into this version of Hardaway. He’s been below replacement all the way through. I predicted last season when he was injured that it would help the Mavs immensely because those minutes could go to Brunson and other useful players. I was right then (most disagreed) and the same situation still holds. He has no on court value. He’s just a chunker, or really a clunker. All he does for 49 games now is fire up misses. Why wait for an injury this season?  Just bench him now and give his minutes to Green and Dorsey. It’s really simple. He nearly single handedly lost a game last night, and there will be more to come. Why suffer losses just because you stupidly gave a huge contract to a below replacement level player?  Cut your losses. Move on. Do a better job in the future when evaluating your own players. THJ has already cost Cuban an incredible chunk of money, and also truthfully the team’s second best player.  Why allow him to cost even more?

And all this talk about fit and roles is ridiculous. He just can’t shoot anymore.  He can’t do it. I don’t know why, but he’s has no stroke for 50 games. There is no role or fit for a one dimensional shooter who can’t freaking shoot.

I agree with you.  There is no fooling other GM's into THJ.  Bench him and give those minutes to Green or another youngster(frank?).   We know what THJ is and there is no increasing his value.  Playing him is stunting Green's growth.   Green is timid on the offensive end...only way to possibly break that is to play him and hope he gets comfortable and eventually confident.  

My issue with THJ is that he refuses to pass the ball.  He actually did pass the rock last night.  If he would do that more and play within the offense instead of forcing up shots I would be ok with him as depth or as an option for quick offense(assuming he is on).

But yeah...the talk of increasing this guys value is comical.  Just play Green.

[dirkfansince1998]

This take isnt aging well

Eight games in after a severe injury it might be a little bit early. But the concept of THJ playing more within the flow of the offense if he gets touches and FGA in his spots instead still seems pretty reasonable. Might reduce the chucking.
Overall the important question is if his shooting touch returns. No matter what else he does on the floor he will have a role if he can get back to 38-40% from 3 on decent volume. But as others mentioned. It´s been two years. Nearly 50 games. One major injury. Since we last saw that guy.
Considering that shooters are streaky (see Bullock´s november splits over the years) it´s probably a little bit early to give up on THJ (and his contract, that´s the most important part) but if he cannot turn it around soon I would agree with the calls to bench him.

On the other hand. It´s not like Bullock is playing any better. Arguably worse. Actually think that THJ has been more active on defense and at least able to draw some FTs on offense.

Absolutely agree that Green is playing better than both. And if the trend continues some major rotation changes are needed.

Also would be happy about most trades that ship one out of Bullock/THJ out in return for another ballhandler. Prefer THJ to be traded but Bullock probably has more value.

[Jommybone]

Love JG. But the kid is only shooting wide open 3s. Tim was 2/3 on those last night, the miss coming a good 4 feet behind the arc. It’s the contested 3s he is missing at an alarming rate. But the coach seems to want him to take those too. Not arguing that the misses are alarming. Just saying, as with Bertans, it seems to be a shot-selection problem. And it seems to be what the coaching staff has in mind. So I’m reluctant to blame Tim.

[dirkfansince1998]

Love JG. But the kid is only shooting wide open 3s. Tim was 2/3 on those last night, the miss coming a good 4 feet behind the arc. It’s the contested 3s he is missing at an alarming rate. But the coach seems to want him to take those too. Not arguing that the misses are alarming. Just saying, as with Bertans, it seems to be a shot-selection problem. And it seems to be what the coaching staff has in mind. So I’m reluctant to blame Tim.

Speaking of Bertans. Is he getting any minutes when he returns? I actually liked what I saw last season and if THJ and Bullock continue to shoot like this the Mavs could use another shooter.

[KillerLeft]

Speaking of Bertans. Is he getting any minutes when he returns? I actually liked what I saw last season and if THJ and Bullock continue to shoot like this the Mavs could use another shooter.

I sure hope so. 

The way the roster is constructed, I think they're going to need him. Especially if Wood has to be on the court with another big at all times.

[KillerLeft]

@"Kammrath", I was going through some box scores tonight, and it seems like your boy Ruchaun Holmes is the odd man out in Sac. He’s playing McGee minutes.

If the Mavs want him, seems like the right time.

[Kammrath]

@Kammrath, I was going through some box scores tonight, and it seems like your boy Ruchaun Holmes is the odd man out in Sac. He’s playing McGee minutes.

If the Mavs want him, seems like the right time.

I would take him. If Kidd insists on not playing Wood as the lone big, then he would work alongside Wood. Question is what that deal might look like.

[F Gump]

@"Kammrath", I was going through some box scores tonight, and it seems like your boy Ruchaun Holmes is the odd man out in Sac. He’s playing McGee minutes.

If the Mavs want him, seems like the right time.

I was one of those wishing for Holmes, when the Mavs were in dire need of a big (with him being very available). But now that they are overrun again, I've cooled on that.

That LONGGGGGGGG contract is just too ghastly for what he's able to bring to the table imo.

He's not going to offer what they wanted from McGee. (The fact that McGee isn't currently doing it very well doesn't mean you want another who doesn't do it well either, and he makes double what McGee makes.)
At his best, he offers efficient scoring close to the basket, like DP.
But he can't give much else. He doesn't get up many shots. He has no game at all beyond 10 feet. He's not a plus rim protector to be a defensive presence. He can't guard the perimeter. 

I think he'd be a less desirable version of DP, who also is an efficient scorer but does help in more areas. With DP already here, it's hard to see any real use for RH.

There's not a financial gain to have him either. RH's contract is the same size as DP's but runs 3 times as long. Ugh, no thanks on that.

[Branduil]

I would do McGee and Powell for Holmes and Len. Backup Cs for backup Cs. Mavs save a little bit of money this year, Kings save money long-term. I trust Holmes to recoup his value WAY more than I trust McGee, who has never been more than serviceable in his career.

[IamDougieFresh]

Can we get these gentlemen some more minutes!?

-Wood
-Green
-Hardy

Also, are Frank and Bertans dead?

[omahen]

Minnesota seems to need shooting and might have too much creators as it is. So how about reunion of Jersey boys and trade THJ+Bullock for Russell? If you can of course convince Minny those two are actually shooters

Russell has his warts but he would bring what Mavs need in additional ability to do something with the ball while still being a good enough shooter. I think he would fit better than THJ. The trade would also give us the ability for increased Green minutes. 

On the long term, next Russel contract will be probably lower than the current one, which would make it easier for Mavs to resign Wood and for future trades.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/statu...9906855936

[Kammrath]

It really feels to me that this roster is on the decline. 

I think DFS, Maxi, RB, THJ, SD, and DP are mostly great feel-good stories about guys who shouldn't have made it in the NBA, yet made a living from it. And it seems like they all have peaked in previous years and now we are on the descent for every single one of them. 

The outlook of this roster is REALLY, REALLY bleak. Luka and JG and Hardy are the possible areas for improvement, not sure anyone else has any glimmer of possibility of improving.

[SwisherPrice]

A wheels off season where they miss the playoffs and get the Top-10 protected pick is not the worst thing to happen. It needs to be bad to where they will be forced to put some of the veterans on ice and play Green/Hardy big minutes where they can get shots and experience.

Historically this franchise has not done well in the season following a WCF appearance:

1989: missed playoffs
2004: lost in 1st round
2007: lost in 1st round
2012: lost in 1st round

Considering the weak roster and "Year 2 Kidd" - the formula is there for this to be a very underwhelming season

[F Gump]

This team really misses Brunson. IMO that's what we're seeing. Brunson had become the engine that was able to drive the team when Luka was slowed, or simply needed a break. Now, they are too Luka-centric, and when Luka isn't off the charts, they are rudderless.

[burekemde]

It really feels to me that this roster is on the decline. 

I think DFS, Maxi, RB, THJ, SD, and DP are mostly great feel-good stories about guys who shouldn't have made it in the NBA, yet made a living from it. And it seems like they all have peaked in previous years and now we are on the descent for every single one of them. 

The outlook of this roster is REALLY, REALLY bleak. Luka and JG and Hardy are the possible areas for improvement, not sure anyone else has any glimmer of possibility of improving.

I believe we will win the championship this season. The last two games, were all about Luka being tired and it was mismanagement from Kidd how much he played him, and in the particular way he carried the load. Before the last two games, I dont see another team in the league that can easy beat us, on contrary. We should and could have won all games by that point essentially.

I think if you look at Luka, DFS, Maxi, RB THJ. all of those guys can shoot way better than they started the season, and will with more minutes as history shows. Its absolutely the worst they can perform. So I expect us to do a lot better in the end of season than right now. The last two games will also become a lesson for Kidd not to overuse Luka, and hopefully will lead in tweaks in plays and design how Luka is used, for the better.

Either the team, and especially Kidd, learns from this and gets better. Or not, and becomes worse. I believe we get better from this knowledge.

Its incredible how bad we shoot as a team from 3 being so wide open. I feel at times I could make some of those open shots.

Also, we have seen that Wood is really important with Brunson not being here. Its no coincidence that Luka looked suddenly tired now than when Wood was on the team taking some load away.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/627zach/status/15904...54336?s=46&t=TAGnzE6mTypA-UNXB16x3g

[ballsrchr]

I believe we will win the championship this season. The last two games, were all about Luka being tired and it was mismanagement from Kidd how much he played him, and in the particular way he carried the load. Before the last two games, I dont see another team in the league that can easy beat us, on contrary. We should and could have won all games by that point essentially.

I think if you look at Luka, DFS, Maxi, RB THJ. all of those guys can shoot way better than they started the season, and will with more minutes as history shows. Its absolutely the worst they can perform. So I expect us to do a lot better in the end of season than right now. The last two games will also become a lesson for Kidd not to overuse Luka, and hopefully will lead in tweaks in plays and design how Luka is used, for the better.

Either the team, and especially Kidd, learns from this and gets better. Or not, and becomes worse. I believe we get better from this knowledge.

Its incredible how bad we shoot as a team from 3 being so wide open. I feel at times I could make some of those open shots.

Also, we have seen that Wood is really important with Brunson not being here. Its no coincidence that Luka looked suddenly tired now than when Wood was on the team taking some load away.

I can tell that you are an optimist.  And that's a good thing!  I sort of agree with you--especially about the load management for Luka.  But I'm also concerned about Kidd's management of the team during games.  The parallels to Avery seem warranted.  I thought Avery was a good gym coach, but a bad in-game coach.  Avery's ego seemed to get in the way sometimes.  

Kidd's personality always seemed to be that of a man who probed the edges of right or wrong, good or bad.  If he could do it...he would.  If he didn't get caught, it was ok.  I was hoping that his ego had been moderated over the years, but I fear not.

I do agree that Luka is tired.  Possibly hungover, or partied too much--as some (one) have postulated.  But, at the very least...tired.  I also agree that Wood is, or could be, very important.  Unfortunately it looks like the management of Wood by Kidd almost assures that he will be moving on at the end of the season.

Of course I don't know what goes on behind scenes.  But I have a long history of being stupidly wrong for most of my life...so I can recognize it when I see it...