ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[mvossman]

Very much this.

I keep staring at Charlotte and hoping they go into firesale mode because it feels like you can offer some cap relief and some seconds to get some folks who could round out our playoff rotation.

Keep thinking that Hardaway/Bertans/Powell and a second or two for Hayward/Rozier would save them some money this season as well as next season and it really wouldn't create too much of a burden for us financially moving forward either.  Rounds our the wing rotation and Rozier can play Hardaway's minutes.

I'm not sure we will have enough minutes for both of them if Hayward stays healthy (a big if).  I also think they can probably get a better package than that.  I would be more than happy to do Hayward for Timmy + Powell + second but that probably is not good enough either.

[F Gump]

Keep thinking that Hardaway/Bertans/Powell and a second or two for Hayward/Rozier would save them some money this season as well as next season and it really wouldn't create too much of a burden for us financially moving forward either.   .

Your definition of "not too much of a burden" involves Cuban spending about 75 MILLION in tax (!), and I suspect that Cuban draws the line MUCH differently than you do!

[ItsGoTime]

I'm not sure we will have enough minutes for both of them if Hayward stays healthy (a big if).

What an AMAZING problem to have!

[cow]

Very much this.

I keep staring at Charlotte and hoping they go into firesale mode because it feels like you can offer some cap relief and some seconds to get some folks who could round out our playoff rotation.

Keep thinking that Hardaway/Bertans/Powell and a second or two for Hayward/Rozier would save them some money this season as well as next season and it really wouldn't create too much of a burden for us financially moving forward either.  Rounds our the wing rotation and Rozier can play Hardaway's minutes.

My gut says Charlotte says no.  You are making that a really bad team for years to come.  CAP relief is one thing but that feels like a move that could damage the Ball relationship.  

If you want to add value to trades, you could tinker in the idea of subbing out Bullock for Powell and adding in Hardy.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Your definition of "not too much of a burden" involves Cuban spending about 75 MILLION in tax (!), and I suspect that Cuban draws the line MUCH differently than you do!

Is this just from the 30 mil on Hayward next year I assume?

The additional two years on Rozier should be negating from dropping the remaining years on Hardaway and Bertans I would think but wasn't paying attention to the full impact of Hayward.

[cow]

Hayward + Rozier

22-23:  ~$51.5
23-24:  $54.7
24-25 (Rozier only):  ~$25
25-26:  ~$26.6

THJ + Bertans + Powell:

22-23:  $46.6
23-24 (no Powell):  ~$34.9
24-25:  ~$32.2

Hayward has a 15% trade kicker that isn't factored in.  Rozier's final year can reduce slightly based on games played and team performance.  Bertans final years can drop to ~$5m guaranteed if he doesn't play in 75% of his games the previous year.  He can also terminate the last year of his deal.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Rozier's final year can reduce slightly based on games played and team performance.

Rozier's final year is a team option, no?

---

My gut says Charlotte says no.  You are making that a really bad team for years to come.  CAP relief is one thing but that feels like a move that could damage the Ball relationship.  

If you want to add value to trades, you could tinker in the idea of subbing out Bullock for Powell and adding in Hardy.

I also think the package feels light for the two names coming back (which @"mvossman" has also mentioned), but as you just broke down, those two have a huge financial commitment to them over the next handful of years.  They may be really screwed and get desperate enough to just be searching for SOME flexibility towards the deadline if they can't find more.  With Hayward's history I find it hard to think anyone is throwing picks at them to commit 30M next year but I could be (and am most likely) wrong.

[ItsGoTime]

Rozier's final year is a team option, no?

Nope, all but $2M is guaranteed.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Nope, all but $2M is guaranteed.

Oh weird, hoopshype has one listed but sportrac does not

[ItsGoTime]

Oh weird, hoopshype has one listed but sportrac does not

Ya, I've been told around here that Sportrac is the more reliable source.

[cow]

Rozier's final year is a team option, no?

I don't believe so.

• 2025-26: $24,924,126 guaranteed, fully guaranteed if CHA plays in 2nd round of playoffs AND Rozier plays 70 games in any of the 2022-23, 2023-24, 2024-25
  

Partially guaranteed but that partial is the vast majority of the contract.

[cow]

I also think the package feels light for the two names coming back (which @"mvossman" has also mentioned), but as you just broke down, those two have a huge financial commitment to them over the next handful of years.  They may be really screwed and get desperate enough to just be searching for SOME flexibility towards the deadline if they can't find more.  With Hayward's history I find it hard to think anyone is throwing picks at them to commit 30M next year but I could be (and am most likely) wrong.

Those players make a lot of money but they are good players.  Their cap situation doesn't seem crazy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CHO.html

Especially when you factor Bridges.

[SleepingHero]

I'm just waiting for the Pascal Siakam trade and the Mavs should be all over it.

TOR isn't a true contender. Masai knows this. He isn't one to bide his time and accept a 6th seed with no path to win. Siakam's timeline is a lot further along than Barnes.

With that said, I think they are going to be a sneaky team to tank for Victor W. They'll hover around .500 till December and then blow it up.

Give them Powell+THJ+Bertans+all the picks  for Siakam and insert one of the names listed (OG, Trent Jr., FVV). Siakam solves a lot of what we're looking for and gives the Mavs a lethal wing combo. Add in either FVV or another wing and the Mavs got even more depth. It's a final all in move, but I think 2 wing players is all Luka needs for the Mavs to get over the hump.

[Jason Terry]

I'm just waiting for the Pascal Siakam trade and the Mavs should be all over it.

TOR isn't a true contender. Masai knows this. He isn't one to bide his time and accept a 6th seed with no path to win. Siakam's timeline is a lot further along than Barnes.

With that said, I think they are going to be a sneaky team to tank for Victor W. They'll hover around .500 till December and then blow it up.

Give them Powell+THJ+Bertans+all the picks  for Siakam and insert one of the names listed (OG, Trent Jr., FVV). Siakam solves a lot of what we're looking for and gives the Mavs a lethal wing combo. Add in either FVV or another wing and the Mavs got even more depth. It's a final all in move, but I think 2 wing players is all Luka needs for the Mavs to get over the hump.

I think he fits the mold of the final piece. Needs to be a two way athletic wing that can get their own

[Kammrath]

Siakam

Been banging my pot for him for years.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Those players make a lot of money but they are good players.  Their cap situation doesn't seem crazy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CHO.html

Especially when you factor Bridges.

Ya honestly after going back through things and realizing Rozier doesn't have the team option that hoopshype had me believe I'm kind of out on this idea anyway now.  If there is a package out there that brings Hayward here without giving up firsts than I'd be down with that but obviously we don't have that kind of package.

Gotta be some sort of Hardaway/Powell/2nds trade out there that can help us round out the rotation though and still keep us in a position to make a big move next offseason.

[mvossman]

I'm just waiting for the Pascal Siakam trade and the Mavs should be all over it.

TOR isn't a true contender. Masai knows this. He isn't one to bide his time and accept a 6th seed with no path to win. Siakam's timeline is a lot further along than Barnes.

With that said, I think they are going to be a sneaky team to tank for Victor W. They'll hover around .500 till December and then blow it up.

Give them Powell+THJ+Bertans+all the picks  for Siakam and insert one of the names listed (OG, Trent Jr., FVV). Siakam solves a lot of what we're looking for and gives the Mavs a lethal wing combo. Add in either FVV or another wing and the Mavs got even more depth. It's a final all in move, but I think 2 wing players is all Luka needs for the Mavs to get over the hump.

If they are pulling this trigger during the season, we won't have a lot picks to send.  We have to wait until the draft to officially trade 24 and 26.  A THJ+Bertans package will cost at least a first to dump, probably more right now.  Siakam is going to be worth multiple first picks, probably more than we will have at the TDL, especially when you factor in the cost of dumping bad contracts.  

I'm skeptical Masai is going to blow that team up.  They have a lot of talent still.  I think it more likely he looks for another Kawhi move.  If he does blow it up, the timing would be better for us if he waits until the offseason, and even then I don't think we will have enough assets to get Siakam plus one of those guys (we would be lucky to get Siakam with everything we have).

[KillerLeft]

I'm skeptical Masai is going to blow that team up.  They have a lot of talent still.  I think it more likely he looks for another Kawhi move.

Unfortunately, I concur.

[Jommybone]

Interesting that it’s been a 9-man rotation thus far (obvious garbage minutes excepted). Preseason, I did not expect both Dwight and Frank to get zero minutes on a recurring basis. But it sure looks like that’s what’s in store. 

Also intrigued that the 10th spot appears (to me) to be a center rather than a backup PG. Our second unit, in reality, is Dinwidde, Hardaway, Green, Kleber, and out-of-the-rotation Powell, no?

[mvossman]

Ya honestly after going back through things and realizing Rozier doesn't have the team option that hoopshype had me believe I'm kind of out on this idea anyway now.  If there is a package out there that brings Hayward here without giving up firsts than I'd be down with that but obviously we don't have that kind of package.

Gotta be some sort of Hardaway/Powell/2nds trade out there that can help us round out the rotation though and still keep us in a position to make a big move next offseason.

Russ?  (joking)