ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[F Gump]

Just sign Schroder.

He'd probably make a reasonably good contribution on the court. Off the court? Would Kidd end up killing him if he was wrecking team chemistry? [FWIW he was on LAL when Kidd was there. Kidd would have a big say here. I bet Dirk too.]

Whether DS or someone else, if you're signing a real 15th player, you might as well get him inked and to camp on time, and ensure he is asap trade eligible if you need to.

[SleepingHero]

Just sign Schroder.

You don't think it's a little interesting how no team wants to touch him with a 10ft pole even though he's talented and not even 29 years old? 

Lakers didn't want to keep him. Celtics jettisoned him off as soon as they could and got better after. Rockets, ATL, and OKC all had him and moved on quick. 

There are PLENTY of teams that need Schroeder. Brooklyn and LA need literally anyone and they still aren't signing him. 

Schroeder isn't damaged goods, which speaks volumes on his attitude.

[Chicagojk]

As you know, this was sold as something just ahead, and that was all but certain and to wait and see what happens in August. The forum thread title has been maintained as if there has been something cooking all along. 

I don't believe there ever was such a trade looming. Just Mavs FO selling tix after a failed summer by peddling the concept that the Big Mystery Move is still coming (!!!!), and some passing along the propaganda (either willfully, or blindly). It's a Cuban go-to thing in such circumstances. Enjoy.

Rough part of the offseason for me.   I have spent too much time watching Dennis Smith summer play highlights, Kemba Walker Knicks highlights, Schroeder Rockets highlights, Jarrett Culver G-league highlights, and others who I should probably find more productive use of my time.  Although, it has sort of turned into my Mav offseason ritual of hoping for a trade and pairing it back until you are looking at guys at the bottom of the barrel.

[cow]

You don't think it's a little interesting how no team wants to touch him with a 10ft pole even though he's talented and not even 29 years old? 

Lakers didn't want to keep him. Celtics jettisoned him off as soon as they could and got better after. Rockets, ATL, and OKC all had him and moved on quick. 

There are PLENTY of teams that need Schroeder. Brooklyn and LA need literally anyone and they still aren't signing him. 

Schroeder isn't damaged goods, which speaks volumes on his attitude.

Fair points, but the Lakers landed PatBev.  Had they not, it sounds like DS was on the table.  And while there are plenty of teams that could use his services, it could easily be argued that the Mavs have the biggest need with no real way of acquiring talent.

-Maybe a year out of the league humbled him.
-You could give him a 1 year deal and send him home if he becomes a locker room problem.
-Because of our lack of recruiting ability, Mavs need to turn over every rock when it comes to improving the roster and one way to do that is take risks on fallen angels.  

We are a Luka injury (knock on Christian Wood's head) or a Dinwiddie injury (and I have major concerns with given him a massive workload given his injury history) from giving New York a really nice draft pick to play alongside Jalen.

I'm not in love with the idea of Schroder but given how terrible the offseason was, if he's cheap and on a one year deal, I see no reason to not sign him at this point.

[Kammrath]

RE: Dennis Schroder

I have always LOVED his game and talent and think he has the ability to bring it on both ends. Multiple times I have wanted him in DAL, going back to when he was in the draft to even a couple years ago when he was a free agent. 

But man, his attitude and the possible chemistry issues he presents scares the crap out of me.

[KillerLeft]

But man, his attitude and the possible chemistry issues he presents scares the crap out of me.

Right. And historically, people don't like to credit points like this, but here goes anyway:

You've just lost Brunson, widely recognized as one of the most important (if not THE most important) team leaders. There's some reason to believe Powell is on his way out, too, and regardless of what we think of his game, it's pretty clear he has been integral to the culture of the team for a while. Some might even consider Boban's exit worthy of inclusion on this list (though I am not among them). 

Meanwhile, you've added Christian Wood, who is most well known for being cut from multiple teams (including a Chinese team) for lack of work ethic and even after "figuring it all out" has apparently been late to practice fairly consistently and has been benched during games for his attitude. And, you've added documented knucklehead Javale McGee, who seems to have figured some things out in recent years but is probably still pretty far from being a team leader. 

I think we're officially approaching a situation wherein the locker room chemistry should be at the forefront of concerns for the next several moves, personally. The front office definitely has more info and insight on this than we do, so I'm not panicking, but this has been on my mind a little, tbh.

[Scott41theMavs]

Right. And historically, people don't like to credit points like this, but here goes anyway:

You've just lost Brunson, widely recognized as one of the most important (if not THE most important) team leaders. There's some reason to believe Powell is on his way out, too, and regardless of what we think of his game, it's pretty clear he has been integral to the culture of the team for a while. Some might even consider Boban's exit worthy of inclusion on this list (though I am not among them). 

Meanwhile, you've added Christian Wood, who is most well known for being cut from multiple teams (including a Chinese team) for lack of work ethic and even after "figuring it all out" has apparently been late to practice fairly consistently and has been benched during games for his attitude. And, you've added documented knucklehead Javale McGee, who seems to have figured some things out in recent years but is probably still pretty far from being a team leader. 

I think we're officially approaching a situation wherein the locker room chemistry should be at the forefront of concerns for the next several moves, personally. The front office definitely has more info and insight on this than we do, so I'm not panicking, but this has been on my mind a little, tbh.

I want the Mavs to get Schroeder if they can, but I still think you make great points. We don't want to become the Jailblazers.

[F Gump]

-Maybe a year out of the league humbled him..

What??? Schroder?

[Mavs2021]

I want the Mavs to get Schroeder if they can, but I still think you make great points. We don't want to become the Jailblazers.

Mavs can either choose to be homeless (nobody) or in jail (Schroeder). That´s what happens, when you make a lot of bad decisions in life. Neither situation is very pleasant and hard to tell which is better.

For Luka neither wouldn´t be bad in the summer, cause he´s living the good life again. Can´t blame him. I´d eat and drink too if Cuban was my boss.

[cow]

What??? Schroder?

Had my wires crossed. He's close to being out of the league so maybe that humbles him?  Probably not, but on a one year, minimum deal, I don't really see the risk in kick that tire.  Just send him home after Pinson bitch slaps him if he causes issues.

And the MBT2.0's mindset should be that no matter how well he plays and fits in or not, this is a one year deal and don't even consider resigning him.

I don't worry about our locker room chemistry one bit.  Almost everyone on the team is a massive plus and the two questions marks (should you sign Shroder) are on expiring deals so there is no reason to keep them around if they act a fool.

As a board, we tend to poke holes in every player and I think we need to get over that mindset as most of the players that are picked apart have no chance of being here anyway.  We need talent upgrades and the Mavs are going to need to get creative to do that considering the state of our asset pool and poor track record in drafting/recruiting.  Money ball has its' risks, but I just don't see a realistic move we could make with as much upside and with as little risk.

[F Gump]

1 Had my wires crossed. He's close to being out of the league so maybe that humbles him? 

2 As a board, we tend to poke holes in every player and I think we need to get over that mindset as most of the players that are picked apart have no chance of being here anyway.   .

1 Got it. Thx for explanation.

2 Re DS, I think probably he is a convo about nothing, because it looks to me like Mavs roster (aka Cuban's willingness to spend) has been closed already. The league requires 14. He's paid for 14. He's done, it appears to me. So there's that.

But re the board's view, I don't think the board has been looking for excuses to pick apart Schroder. Instead, with the question being raised of "Why not Schroder" then the realities of his negatives -- that we can dismiss because we don't see, but may be more significant than we can understand -- are important parts of the conversation.

I do think Schroder also isn't quite as good as we imagine him to be, but rather he's being over praised because he's not signed. That's fair to mention, right? He's just a guy. PER 13 last season, below avg NBAer.

As for the off-court stuff, we don't know what that means in his case, but we do know there is some level of jerkiness in people that can be just not worth it. Life is too short to waste it constantly dealing with ass-holery. But I'd think Kidd/Dirk already know what Schroder is from experience, as to what his combo is of some talent plus some issues, and I would not question their call or whine about "why not Schroder" if they said he's just not worth it.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Count me in on Schroeder too. For a 1year minimum there is very little risk. We need a playmaker. Heck, we even need just sheer talent. Schroeder can get buckets; at the very least can be an innings eater and start when Luka and Din get dinged up and need to sit on a B2B. I still think I would’ve preferred Dragic, if only because it probably would’ve made Luka happy, and he’s a vet leader good culture guy and there is value in that.

---

Definitely agree with you FGump—in that if we don’t sign him, that speaks volumes. Kidd and Dirk have seen the guy up close enough to know.

[cow]

But re the board's view, I don't think the board has been looking for excuses to pick apart Schroder. 

I wasn't being specific to Schroder with that comment.  There is plenty to be concerned about in his case but you can also protect yourself from those concerns easily.  We pick apart every name that comes along and we have little room to be picky.  We've had people say they wouldn't want KD on this team.  Not trying to pick on that poster but we all need a dose of reality and to set our expectations accordingly.  It's why I set my sights on the likes of McGee and Tyreke Evans.  Maybe I've swung the door too far the other direction?

You are probably right about Cuban being done.  I think that's crazy and I fear we are going to make Dinwiddie's tires fall off, but it is what it is.  The offseason started off so promising too.

[KillerLeft]

The offseason started off so promising too.

I wish I could live forever during those two weeks after Wood was acquired but before we knew Brunson was going to peace out.

[chaparral]

Are there any 3rd team PG's still out there that would except a non-guaranteed deal?

[cow]

I wish I could live forever during those two weeks after Wood was acquired but before we knew Brunson was going to peace out.

I don't hate the MBT2.0 for having a number they weren't willing to go to for Jalen, but it seems like him walking has left them rather flat footed.

I also get the angst from the board.  Everyone waiting for the other Luka shoe to drop.  This offseason certainly doing nothing to maintain or bolster his loyalty to the organization.

[KillerLeft]

I also get the angst from the board.  Everyone waiting for the other Luka shoe to drop.  This offseason certainly doing nothing to maintain or bolster his loyalty to the organization.

I mean, sure, there's that. 

But for me, it's bigger than "will he stay or won't he?" It's like...if he stays, we're about to watch a kid waste his whole career and not get to reach his full potential. It feels like it's going to be Dirk all over again.

[cow]

It feels like it's going to be Dirk all over again.

I'm not worried about that as I don't expect he'll have anywhere near the loyalty that Dirk had.  And that's not a knock on Luka.

[Chicagojk]

Tim Cato had a Q&A this morning on the Athletic.  Here is a portion of his answer on what is needed most:  A guard or a 3 and D wing.


He gets into a discussion with Hardaway and it is where I keep landing.   I expect Hardaway to be a Mavs this year (at least) and get a lot of playing time.  But what I think this roster really needs is to replace his minutes with a really good wing who can handle and create.   Fill that spot....maybe putting Bullock to the bench and I think this team is really close.  Those players are tough to find though.  


***********************
Basically, I’m arguing that the path to long-term championship improvement involves replacing someone like Hardaway — a difficult shot taker and maker — with a creative wing who takes Hardaway’s volume and creates better looks from it. An offense that relies on Hardaway’s contested jumpers, even if he makes them at an impressive volume given the difficulty, won’t be as good as an offense that relies on a player who creates better looks for himself and his teammates. Finney-Smith and Bullock won’t magically turn into secondary or tertiary playmakers any more than they have, and their on-court impact makes up for that. Hardaway’s role, however, could be replaced with someone who amplifies his teammates more than him, even if he returns to the same efficiency levels he had in the seasons prior to the last one.

This isn’t really an argument against Hardaway as a player, but one about how championship ceilings are created through role definition and roster construction. Hardaway, in the role he’s projected to have next year, adds to the reason the Mavericks won’t have one that reaches real levels of contention. Even him executing his role to the extent of his abilities next season might not justify that role existing on a team striving for the upper echelon of winning.

[mvossman]

Tim Cato had a Q&A this morning on the Athletic.  Here is a portion of his answer on what is needed most:  A guard or a 3 and D wing.


He gets into a discussion with Hardaway and it is where I keep landing.   I expect Hardaway to be a Mavs this year (at least) and get a lot of playing time.  But what I think this roster really needs is to replace his minutes with a really good wing who can handle and create.   Fill that spot....maybe putting Bullock to the bench and I think this team is really close.  Those players are tough to find though.  


***********************
Basically, I’m arguing that the path to long-term championship improvement involves replacing someone like Hardaway — a difficult shot taker and maker — with a creative wing who takes Hardaway’s volume and creates better looks from it. An offense that relies on Hardaway’s contested jumpers, even if he makes them at an impressive volume given the difficulty, won’t be as good as an offense that relies on a player who creates better looks for himself and his teammates. Finney-Smith and Bullock won’t magically turn into secondary or tertiary playmakers any more than they have, and their on-court impact makes up for that. Hardaway’s role, however, could be replaced with someone who amplifies his teammates more than him, even if he returns to the same efficiency levels he had in the seasons prior to the last one.

This isn’t really an argument against Hardaway as a player, but one about how championship ceilings are created through role definition and roster construction. Hardaway, in the role he’s projected to have next year, adds to the reason the Mavericks won’t have one that reaches real levels of contention. Even him executing his role to the extent of his abilities next season might not justify that role existing on a team striving for the upper echelon of winning.

Yep.  As mentioned on the other thread, the goal for next offseason should be to replace Timmy with a two way player that can create for themselves and others.  We do not have that player on this team.  With access to all of our picks and salary filler like Timmy and an expiring Bertans we should be able to land that player.  At a minimum we should be able to get somebody like Wiggins or Anunoby.  We could also probably get somebody like Siakam.  Its possible we might even be able to get somebody like Jaylen Brown if the perfect circumstances present themselves.  There will be options, and a few new ones might presents themselves through the course of next season.  After the KP failure, we basically have one more shot at this.