ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[ItsGoTime]

Don´t think the comparisation works. Both are still comfortably ahead of Brooks when it comes to key scoring efficiency numbers like TS% or PPP. Margin for Levert is smaller (~2% TS) but he is also a better playmaker. THJ is simply a way better shooter (with a similar chucker mentality). Even before he joined the Mavs he had 1 1/2 seasons with the Hawks that are levels above the best version of Brooks when it comes to shooting percentages.

Found an article that says it way better than I ever could. With a spot on prediction for the postseason.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/01/grizzli...tion-stats

There is a lot to like when it comes to his defense and hustle. But on offense he combines a "Kobe" mentality with Frank Nitilikina level shot making ability.
I am not completly out on the idea if he signs for the BAE and accepts a smaller role on offense. But that goes against everything Brooks stated in the last couple of month. He wants a bigger role and a big contract.

I think the comparison I made with Levert is still just fine (rechecked shooting stats on BB-Ref). The “comparison” with THJ was in who he was and his reputation coming here. He was an inefficient chucker that had the same “Kobe” mentality (that still isn’t fully out of him IMO). 

The recent quotes will further break Brooks down when he finds the contract he wants isn’t out there. More reason for him to work harder (already a hard worker) and work towards a solution to shut the critics mouths. Coming here in a Bullock starting type role, it’s pretty easy to see how he can turn the narrative around. If you can’t see that, I don’t know what else to say.

[Chicagojk]

I mean he is a free agent. He has earned the right to explore all his options. I am just a little bit bothered that he skipped the end of the year interview and has made no comments about the Mavs since the end of the season. Then showing up at Laker Playoff games. Now, playing the why is everyone talking about me routine. It is just tiring. Again, he has earned the right to explore options in FA.

I am much more interested if he really wants to be in Dallas or if they will just offer him the most money. I want people around Luka whose one goal is to win a championship. All the other stuff is secondary.

[DanSchwartzgan]

There is obviously a 'sky is falling' part to the Kyrie comments.  I suspect we'd all like to hear something well in advance of 6/30.  I've written before that I'm hopeful that the Kyrie re-signing announcement (whenever it happens) doesn't come with a specific number attached.  I'd kind of like him to allow Dallas to do whatever work it wants to do with a general understanding of the area he will start at.  Maybe it's $38mm if this and this happens, but $43mm if only this happens.  Dallas has a history of this type of negotiation.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Big YUCK at trading #10
for Turner. 

Games played by Turner over  the last four seasons:

62
47
42
62

Just not a good target at all due to that. Also nothing special on the court. The moment you dump a lottery pick an allstar or a player with that type of upside should come back. Turner isn’t close to that level.

The idea of the player Turner is is A LOT more inteigueing than the player himself. He barely ever manages to shoot better than 35% from three despite his reputation as a stretch big. 

Also just a shitty rebounder.

Turner should not be a Mavs target.  Incredibly overrated on D and can't rebound to save his life.  The Mavs were 30th in rebounding last year.  The Pacers were like 28th.

[F Gump]

One significant value of max players is being able to sign a player who is worth more than max, but be able to get a bargain at the max.

But when considering Kyrie, I don't think he is going to be worth 47M and I think 40M is maybe even a bit high. Age, outside issues, track record of team distractions, injury potential, size, lack of defense, the hard cap, all of those objectively limit his relative value. I'd really peg his worth as low-to-mid 30s, less than Luka but still worth a sizable salary.

Because of all that, I find it interesting how the calls to pay the max to Kyrie don't talk about his actual worth. They are just "Pay him as much as the league allows, because I'm scared he might leave [not "because he's certainly worth it"]." And I wonder which (if any) other teams would really actually pay him the max. Are we again eagerly cheering for the Mavs to do what they have always been so good (or bad) at, which is bidding against themselves?

And assuming that if you even converse with him about a number lower than 47M, he'll instantly bolt -- really? To a Lakers team that will offer him 30M or so? That makes no sense.

I think the conversation with him about a lower number is not only about the contract, but is also an opportunity to weigh his "buy in." I think the result would be positive, but you can't get him on board unless you have the conversation. And if he does gets miffed, just from the asking, because you're trying to build a winner and asking him to participate in a reasonable way, it's better to know that before you sign him than after.

[Scott41theMavs]

One significant value of max players is being able to sign a player who is worth more than max, but be able to get a bargain at the max.

But when considering Kyrie, I don't think he is going to be worth 47M and I think 40M is maybe even a bit high. Age, outside issues, track record of team distractions, injury potential, size, lack of defense, the hard cap, all of those objectively limit his relative value. I'd really peg his worth as low-to-mid 30s, less than Luka but still worth a sizable salary.

Because of all that, I find it interesting how the calls to pay the max to Kyrie don't talk about his actual worth. They are just "Pay him as much as the league allows, because I'm scared he might leave [not "because he's certainly worth it"]."  And I wonder which (if any) other teams would really actually pay him the max. Are we again eagerly cheering for the Mavs to do what they have always been so good (or bad) at, which is bidding against themselves?

And assuming that if you even converse with him about a number lower than 47M, he'll instantly bolt -- really? To a Lakers team that will offer him 30M or so? That makes no sense.

I think the conversation with him about a lower number is not only about the contract, but is also an opportunity to weigh his "buy in." I think the result would be positive, but you can't get him on board unless you have the conversation. And if he does gets miffed, just from the asking, because you're trying to build a winner and asking him to participate in a reasonable way, it's better to know that before you sign him than after.

+41

[Mapka]

One significant value of max players is being able to sign a player who is worth more than max, but be able to get a bargain at the max.

But when considering Kyrie, I don't think he is going to be worth 47M and I think 40M is maybe even a bit high. Age, outside issues, track record of team distractions, injury potential, size, lack of defense, the hard cap, all of those objectively limit his relative value. I'd really peg his worth as low-to-mid 30s, less than Luka but still worth a sizable salary.

Because of all that, I find it interesting how the calls to pay the max to Kyrie don't talk about his actual worth. They are just "Pay him as much as the league allows, because I'm scared he might leave [not "because he's certainly worth it"]."  And I wonder which (if any) other teams would really actually pay him the max. Are we again eagerly cheering for the Mavs to do what they have always been so good (or bad) at, which is bidding against themselves?

And assuming that if you even converse with him about a number lower than 47M, he'll instantly bolt -- really? To a Lakers team that will offer him 30M or so? That makes no sense.

I think the conversation with him about a lower number is not only about the contract, but is also an opportunity to weigh his "buy in." I think the result would be positive, but you can't get him on board unless you have the conversation. And if he does gets miffed, just from the asking, because you're trying to build a winner and asking him to participate in a reasonable way, it's better to know that before you sign him than after.

It's even worse.
All this was true at the moment of the trade and a trade & extend would have been possible for that perfect salary.
He didn't want that.
So we shouldn't have traded for him ....

[SleepingHero]

And assuming that if you even converse with him about a number lower than 47M, he'll instantly bolt -- really? To a Lakers team that will offer him 30M or so? That makes no sense.

This is Kyrie Irving we are talking about here. He is the definition of nonsensical. 

He literally left a team that orchestrated one of the greatest playoff comebacks of all time and won, where he hit the biggest shot of the series. He blew up not one, not two, but three championship contenders in their prime because he felt like it. 

To think that he wouldn't bolt at perceived disrespect by not offering him a max contract (something he did in February of this year) is folly.

[DallasMaverick]

This is Kyrie Irving we are talking about here. He is the definition of nonsensical. 

He literally left a team that orchestrated one of the greatest playoff comebacks of all time and won, where he hit the biggest shot of the series. He blew up not one, not two, but three championship contenders in their prime because he felt like it. 

To think that he wouldn't bolt at perceived disrespect by not offering him a max contract (something he did in February of this year) is folly.

Most people learn something from their mistakes.

I suspect Kyrie has learned from his, as well.  He's gotten bitten by some of his unwise public statements, and it's cost him sponsorship money as well as fan support.

Many of his statements have come from genuine conviction. His anti-Covid-vax stance, for example.  Do I agree?  No.  Do I respect his right to believe that way?  Absolutely.

On the other hand, I don't get the feeling that his ego is outsized.  Not a sense of seeping entitlement that I see in a lot of other NBA players.  Not the quick rush to take offense when he perceives that he's being disrespected.

Maybe I'm reading him wrong.   Time will tell.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://theathletic.com/4522964/2023/05/...urce=nbatw






Good synopsis of the challenges facing them this summer.

[StepBackJay]

One significant value of max players is being able to sign a player who is worth more than max, but be able to get a bargain at the max.

But when considering Kyrie, I don't think he is going to be worth 47M and I think 40M is maybe even a bit high. Age, outside issues, track record of team distractions, injury potential, size, lack of defense, the hard cap, all of those objectively limit his relative value. I'd really peg his worth as low-to-mid 30s, less than Luka but still worth a sizable salary.

Because of all that, I find it interesting how the calls to pay the max to Kyrie don't talk about his actual worth. They are just "Pay him as much as the league allows, because I'm scared he might leave [not "because he's certainly worth it"]."  And I wonder which (if any) other teams would really actually pay him the max. Are we again eagerly cheering for the Mavs to do what they have always been so good (or bad) at, which is bidding against themselves?

And assuming that if you even converse with him about a number lower than 47M, he'll instantly bolt -- really? To a Lakers team that will offer him 30M or so? That makes no sense.

I think the conversation with him about a lower number is not only about the contract, but is also an opportunity to weigh his "buy in." I think the result would be positive, but you can't get him on board unless you have the conversation. And if he does gets miffed, just from the asking, because you're trying to build a winner and asking him to participate in a reasonable way, it's better to know that before you sign him than after.

Kai made almost 39 mil this year so I think starting at 40 is reasonable for his ability. I think they will give him a big deal that lines up with Luka's and if he wants to take a huge pay cut to go to the Lakers so be it. I don't think he will, this is probably his last best chance to get one more huge contract.

There are other guards making huge money that aren't as good as Kai so its not unreasonable.

[Chicagojk]

On a separate note, if Kyrie really wants to go to LAL it is really a POS move to attend the Lakers elimination game and sit at courtside level. A giant FU to the Mavs front office, Mavs fans, Lakers players, etc.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

On a separate note, if Kyrie really wants to go to LAL it is really a POS move to attend the Lakers elimination game and sit at courtside level.  A giant FU to the Mavs front office, Mavs fans, Lakers players, etc.

This.
The vibe I get from him is that he really wants to be a Laker (to be with Lebron of for whatever reason).
But he is willing to stay with the Mavs -- for an absurd amount of money.

[DallasMaverick]

This.
The vibe I get from him is that he really wants to be a Laker (to be with Lebron of for whatever reason).
But he is willing to stay with the Mavs -- for an absurd amount of money.

Maybe he just likes to watch basketball.  And LeBron is his friend, and he wanted to support him.

Can't read too much into it.

[audiosway]

Maybe he just likes to watch basketball.  And LeBron is his friend, and he wanted to support him.

Can't read too much into it.

That's what I got out of it. Just because a guy can go to a game doesn't mean he's going there. There is no rule saying players can't just enjoy the game.

[SleepingHero]

I mean Lillard went to multiple Knick/BRK playoff games. Why aren't we discussing at length how Dame is going to force a trade to those teams?

[Chicagojk]

So who is the player who might have several teams interested in moving up to 10 to create a mini bidding war if the mavs want to move down a few. I was thinking Ausar Thompson as he could possibly fit the prototype that both OKC and Toronto like. So maybe it is him. But it appears several fanbases in the early teens are high on Bufkin. Is he the surprise move up guy come drafttime?

https://youtu.be/Sw0mikZILXw

[DallasMaverick]

So who is the player who might have several teams interested in moving up to 10 to create a mini bidding war if the mavs want to move down a few.  I was thinking Ausar Thompson as he could possibly fit the prototype that both OKC and Toronto like.  So maybe it is him.  But it appears several fanbases in the early teens are high on Bufkin. Is he the surprise move up guy come drafttime?

https://youtu.be/Sw0mikZILXw

Reminds me just a bit of Hardy.

[JCB]

Whether we resign Kyrie or not will not matter unless there is a complete organizational overhaul of the team that includes Mark Cuban going on permanent vacation.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I mean Lillard went to multiple Knick/BRK playoff games. Why aren't we discussing at length how Dame is going to force a trade to those teams?

Because Dame hasn't forced a trade. Kyrie has. TWICE. There's no correlation between the two.