ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[DanSchwartzgan]

They kinda did. Mavs simply missed out.

#13 Donovan Mitchell
#14 Bam Adebayo
#19 John Collins
#22 Jarrett Allen
#23 OG Anunoby
#27 Kyle Kuzma
#29 Josh Hart
#30 Derrick White

Basically had a 50% chance to hit a starting quality or better player with their first.

Meanwhile, out of all the supposed studs taken in the top 10 of that draft, there are only three you would consider giving up this year’s number 10 for.

[dirkfansince1998]

Meanwhile, out of all the supposed studs taken in the top 10 of that draft, there are only three you would consider giving up this year’s number 10 for.

Those guys weren´t on the board when the Mavs picked. That´s why I focussed on the available players.


There is more than one way to look at this. For example. I wouldn´t give up 10 for the current version of John Collins. Different story when we look at his "career value". Production in his first six seasons in the league. Most of them on a cheap rookie deal. With great chances to resign him as a RFA.
Just really high on the chance to pick up a cheap asset with longterm team control. Even more under the new CBA.

[Jakeospikez]

Malik Monk is a decent enough player too imo. He is what he was expected to be, good player just undersized for a 2. OG was injured coming into the draft which is why he went a bit lower than he should have.

[Chicagojk]

They kinda did. Mavs simply missed out.

#13 Donovan Mitchell
#14 Bam Adebayo
#19 John Collins
#22 Jarrett Allen
#23 OG Anunoby
#27 Kyle Kuzma
#29 Josh Hart
#30 Derrick White

Basically had a 50% chance to hit a starting quality or better player with their first.

I must admit I looked at the draft pretty closely that year and was fully ok with DSJ.   I didn't even look at Adebayo and looking back I wonder why I just bypassed him.  I would never have thought of him being such a creator with the ball, I guess.   I discounted Mitchell because he looked like a two foot jumper and I thought that would really hurt him at his size.    Also Louisville guys had a spotty record under Pitino.  That was clearly a miss though.

[Jakeospikez]

I remember that time some as well. There were some good armchair scouts on the Mavs internet back then, a few people were really pushing for Donovan Mitchell.

[dirkfansince1998]

I must admit I looked at the draft pretty closely that year and was fully ok with DSJ.   I didn't even look at Adebayo and looking back I wonder why I just bypassed him.  I would never have thought of him being such a creator with the ball, I guess.   I discounted Mitchell because he looked like a two foot jumper and I thought that would really hurt him at his size.    Also Louisville guys had a spotty record under Pitino.  That was clearly a miss though.

I was really high on Adebayo´s defense. But I have to admit that I was just as high on other bigs with a similar build that never turned into anything. Him not producing on offense as probably more about Kentucky´s system. Bigs are rim runners and garbage man on offense. Guards handle the ball. In his case it was even worse. Next to Fox and Monk there simply wasn´t a role for another creator.

[Chicagojk]

I was really high on Adebayo´s defense. But I have to admit that I was just as high on other bigs with a similar build that never turned into anything. Him not producing on offense as probably more about Kentucky´s system. Bigs are rim runners and garbage man on offense. Guards handle the ball. In his case it was even worse. Next to Fox and Monk there simply wasn´t a role for another creator.

It is pretty crazy looking at past Kentucky rosters....most were freshman, but man how many titles did they win???


16-17
Mailk Much
De'aron Fox
Bam adebayo
Wenyen Gabriel
Plus a few other highly rated players who did not make the pros.  

2017-18
Kevin Knox 
SGA
PJ Washington
Hamidou Diallo
Nick Richards
Jarred Vanderbilt

14-15 probably takes the cake though
Harrison twins
Karl Anthony Towns
Devin Booker
Willie Caulie Stein
Trey Lyles
Tyler Ulis
Dakari Johnson
Alex Poythress

[dirkfansince1998]

It is pretty crazy looking at past Kentucky rosters....most were freshman, but man how many titles did they win???


16-17
Mailk Much
De'aron Fox
Bam adebayo
Wenyen Gabriel
Plus a few other highly rated players who did not make the pros.  

2017-18
Kevin Knox 
SGA
PJ Washington
Hamidou Diallo
Nick Richards
Jarred Vanderbilt

14-15 probably takes the cake though
Harrison twins
Karl Anthony Towns
Devin Booker
Willie Caulie Stein
Trey Lyles
Tyler Ulis
Dakari Johnson
Alex Poythress

Mentioned it when we discussed Cason Wallace. Bust rate for Kentucky guards in the first round is basically zero. SGA, Herro, Quickley, Maxey in the following seasons.

[Jakeospikez]

Wallace looks like a great prospect, not sure if there's enough room for playtime for all the young players unless either Kyrie is S&T'd for some front court help or Hardy is traded I guess. Big risk at 2nd playmaker if Kyrie is moved but if Kyrie is S&T'd then he should probably be the pick if he's available. Not really interested in trading Hardy, his shot form and quick release already looks really great and you can see how valuable high quality shooters are with the Heat right now.

[F Gump]

1.  What am I missing?  $19.6 + $5.4 = $25.  $25 x 125% + $100k = $31.35.  Ayton is $30.9.

2. I can understand the sentiment surrounding keeping #10.  The potential of some of the players there is enticing.  We also have the Giannis history arguing against a trade down (especially if it is strictly a financial move).  The Hardy draft gives me hope that maybe Nico is better at this than we give him credit for (or maybe it is just that I watched 'Air' over the weekend).  But, there are some high upside (low floor) guys in the mid-first who might be better than the worst of the guys projected to go 5-10.

1 THJ trade TPE would be 2023-24 salary. June trades use "lesser guaranteed salary of..."

2 What you are saying is you like the quality of players in mid-1st rather than at around 10. But if that's who you like, obviously you can take any of those guys you see as mid-1st at 10; it's not like they aren't there until later (see Mitchell, D. Adebayo, B. Collins, J. etc).

I'm okay with trading down if you can be CERTAIN to get the player you like better, but you also have to be aware someone else may grab your guy if you trade down, even just a few slots. (Like MIL did with Giannis.)

The value in return is going to be better when the other teams comes to you chasing 10, rather than you trying to move down and looking for a partner. Unfortunately, the Mavs already messed that up. Of course.

I do trust that whatever the Mavs do, and how they do it, in regards to the draft, it's more likely than not to be the wrong choice. Trade down too far and miss their guy. Don't negotiate enough value for moving out of 10. Pick the wrong guy where they land. Get some player for the pick who isn't that helpful. Just saying.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/mavsfilmroom/status/...74410?s=46&t=Fmdr94oXagcEyy75KJqaFg

Hopefully no one hires Vogel.

[DanSchwartzgan]

1 THJ trade TPE would be 2023-24 salary. June trades use "lesser guaranteed salary of..."

Thanks.  You’ve mentioned that before and I can’t seem to make it stick in my brain.

[audiosway]

I must admit I looked at the draft pretty closely that year and was fully ok with DSJ.   I didn't even look at Adebayo and looking back I wonder why I just bypassed him.  I would never have thought of him being such a creator with the ball, I guess.   I discounted Mitchell because he looked like a two foot jumper and I thought that would really hurt him at his size.    Also Louisville guys had a spotty record under Pitino.  That was clearly a miss though.

I fully agree. I was all on board with DSJ.

[Mapka]

I fully agree. I was all on board with DSJ.

I still like DSJ. It just didn't work out.

[DallasMaverick]

I still like DSJ. It just didn't work out.

I like his athleticism.

Was he worth the #9 pick?

[SkenfromLMF]

IMO one of the problems with DSJ is that he was marginalized by 2 better players at his position his 2nd year. this limited his ability to learn on the floor, and no one had delusions about maturity in comparison to Brunson. The biggest compliment Brunson can receive is that he was able to come into this team and be patient enough to create a role complimentary and not competitive to Luka. DSJ simply was not capable to do so on a couple of levels, and Brunson closed the door on that ability.

[Scott41theMavs]

IMO one of the problems with DSJ is that he was marginalized by 2 better players at his position his 2nd year. this limited his ability to learn on the floor, and no one had delusions about maturity in comparison to Brunson. The biggest compliment Brunson can receive is that he was able to come into this team and be patient enough to create a role complimentary and not competitive to Luka. DSJ simply was not capable to do so on a couple of levels, and Brunson closed the door on that ability.

You just re-opened my Fred Sanford wound.

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/16...66861?s=46&t=iwQP5yZoJF3Ulzfb9MH7Cg

[khaled1987]

I must admit I looked at the draft pretty closely that year and was fully ok with DSJ.   I didn't even look at Adebayo and looking back I wonder why I just bypassed him.  I would never have thought of him being such a creator with the ball, I guess.   I discounted Mitchell because he looked like a two foot jumper and I thought that would really hurt him at his size.    Also Louisville guys had a spotty record under Pitino.  That was clearly a miss though.

I followed that draft very closely and had one rule: Anyone but DSJ. 
It looked clear at the end who is the top 8, and that he was falling to us 

But OTOH, I wanted Monk. So it wasn't like I knew who is great player we can get

[Chicagojk]

Sort of interesting Dinwiddie conversation. At 13 minute mark they talk Luka. At 19 minute mark they talk Luka and Kyrie

https://www.youtube.com/live/x0sbXjgLdkE?feature=share