ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[F Gump]

We'll carry Wright and Lawson as third stringers at the lower minimum saving a couple million.

If that's cash related, yes. But if apron related, it doesn't work - on that calculation, they would be charged the same as 2-year vet minimum. So use those slots to get someone who can truly contribute, or who might be developable.

[Chicagojk]

I was listening to the April 4th Cato podcast and he said something interesting.  After the 2011 championship the Cuban run organization stopped looking for good players and instead focused on the hope of finding a great player.  This needs to change now, if Kyrie returns.

Find/develop guys with grit.  Guys who are bulldogs.  Physically and mentally thought players.  Guys who impact winning.  Maybe one guy in the 15-20 million range via trade but also find some guys you can develop or uncover.  On a separate point they mentioned how this team would take somones trash like Brendan Wright or Brandon Bass and put them in a productive role.  This team needs to get back to that.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Good piece. I would like to address this full MLE. Who would be the targets in your opinion?

Staying under the first apron makes more sense if Mavs would be targeting a SnT for someone like Jerami Grant, imho

I've been on 'sabbatical', so I'm a little behind on free agency.  The MLE could be split.  Something more than the TP-MLE for one guy and something more than the Vet Min for another?  I agree, glancing at a list that I don't see a lot of obvious $11-$12mm candidates.  

Grant makes a lot of sense to me, but I see some issues.  He's a Klutch guy and we haven't done a ton of business with them.  If #10 is part of the compensation to Portland, the timing is wrong.  We'd be picking before we are allowed to approach Grant or Portland.  So, you'd be risking a tampering charge if the deal ends up as players and the person we took two weeks before at 10 for Grant.  That's part of why I like Turner.  He's under Indy's control.  You can easily draft for Indy and even announce the deal and not finish it until the new season.

I didn't mention Wood's free agency in my post as I don't expect him to do us any favors.  But, if there is a deal that's in his best interest, then he'd certainly jump on board.  He'd be useful in a S&T for Grant or for some of the Charlotte guys, but his salary is additive to what I posted above and makes it nearly impossible to stay below the first apron (so he might help the talent part of a S&T while making it financially impossible).  

I'm trying to not get to attached to specific players until we see who wins the lottery (and if we keep our pick).  Where Wemby ends up could open up some things we haven't talked about.

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If that's cash related, yes. But if apron related, it doesn't work - on that calculation, they would be charged the same as 2-year vet minimum. So use those slots to get someone who can truly contribute, or who might be developable.

Thanks.  How do second round picks count against the apron?

[Mavs2021]

I was listening to the April 4th Cato podcast and he said something interesting.  After the 2011 championship the Cuban run organization stopped looking for good players and instead focused on the hope of finding a great player.  This needs to change now, if Kyrie returns.

Find/develop guys with grit.  Guys who are bulldogs.  Physically and mentally thought players.  Guys who impact winning.  Maybe one guy in the 15-20 million range via trade but also find some guys you can develop or uncover.  On a separate point they mentioned how this team would take somones trash like Brendan Wright or Brandon Bass and put them in a productive role.  This team needs to get back to that.

All the "superstars" they targeted and missed were total trash within 24 months of their proposed contracts: Whiteside, Jordan, Howard, Williams, Lowry and so on. Yes they missed, but it would have been just as bad had they landed. They did get a lot of "good" players in Barnes, Ellis, Parsons or Matthews.

It´s a strategic failure that has been going on for 12 years now. Every off-season they do the same sh*t and expect different results. I can guarantee you they´ll trade the 10th pick, one of Hardy and Green, the 2027 first, plus THJ + Kleber for Myles Turner + Buddy Hield and Mitch McConnell.

Then sign a bunch of washed-up has beens that were not good enough anymore for the real contenders, so had to settle for the NBA retirement home. Guys like Patrick Beverley, Gorgui Dieng, Robin Lopez, Kevin Love, Monretzl Harrell or Blake Griffin, obviously for a salary above the minimum.

Meanwhile the smart teams will pick up Azubuike, McDaniels, Reed, Bitadze, Mo Wagner, Naz Reid, Jaxson Hayes, Chimezie Metu.....

[omahen]

Grant makes a lot of sense to me, but I see some issues.  If #10 is part of the compensation to Portland, the timing is wrong. 

Portland paid 1 future FRP (lightly protected Milwaukee pick) to get Grant from Detroit, without any salary going to Detroit. So I guess 2027 pick would be a fair compensation if Portland takes back the needed salary.

He's a Klutch guy and we haven't done a ton of business with them. 

There is no salavation, if Mavs don't end with crap like that. These are moves by emotionally too involved owners, not professionals. But I agree, nothing will change with Mavs, so this is a valid obstacle.

[omahen]

Meanwhile the smart teams will pick up Azubuike, McDaniels, Reed, Bitadze, Mo Wagner, Naz Reid, Jaxson Hayes, Chimezie Metu.....

You are neglecting gazillion of moves for young players that never turn it around. Mavs did try with Justin Jackson or FN in the past, but neither turned it around despite getting plenty of chance. Also, stats from tanking games have little to no value. 

Azubuike might be an ok one on one defender against centers, but he is horrible against anyone else. Third stringer at best. Similar goes for Reed, Wagner and Bitadze. Hayes is an enigma both in terms of his salary as well as the upside. Reid is likely more than rMLE guy and is similar to Wood. Has offense, but weak defender. In any case, Mavs have more than enough of average centers. They need a good starter.

[SleepingHero]

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/fully-d...llas?sd=pf

[url=https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/status/1645081435642929156?s=20][/url]
https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/status/...omNzphalMw&s=19

https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...29156?s=20

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...43937?s=20

https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...15585?s=20

[DanSchwartzgan]

There is no salavation, if Mavs don't end with crap like that. These are moves by emotionally too involved owners, not professionals. But I agree, nothing will change with Mavs, so this is a valid obstacle.

Absolutely.  Mark is such a little bitch sometimes.  I have to wonder what damage he's done with CAA in the Brunson fiasco.  They represent a ton of players including our own Josh Green.

[SleepingHero]

Absolutely.  Mark is such a little bitch sometimes.  I have to wonder what damage he's done with CAA in the Brunson fiasco.  They represent a ton of players including our own Josh Green.

I'm starting to look back on the last 20 years or so of Mavs and I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Dirk won in spite of Cuban. Had Dirk been on an actual successful organization like the Spurs (vomit), he'd have come away with 3+rings. 

It all starts and ends with the dolt. Mavs won't be anything until Cuban gets run out of town.

[dirkfansince1998]

Maybe I am crazy but I if a sign&trade isn´t possible and Kyrie refuses to agree to a two year deal I would let him go. Mavs need to stop doubling down on mistakes. Kyrie on a 4-year max is an almost guaranteed disaster.

[omahen]

Maybe I am crazy but I if a sign&trade isn´t possible and Kyrie refuses to agree to a two year deal I would let him go. Mavs need to stop doubling down on mistakes. Kyrie on a 4-year max is an almost guaranteed disaster.

Agree on the last part. But Mavs made the gamble and will stick to it. If they would be so concerned about the long term, they wouldn't make the trade in the first place. Of course it is very likely, they just made another mistake.

[SleepingHero]

Maybe I am crazy but I if a sign&trade isn´t possible and Kyrie refuses to agree to a two year deal I would let him go. Mavs need to stop doubling down on mistakes. Kyrie on a 4-year max is an almost guaranteed disaster.

I think letting him walk for free is an even worse disaster.

Like omahen said, the Mavs made their choice when they made the trade. Like it or not we're hitched to the Kyrie wagon for a bit until he wears out his welcome like he has at all other stops.

[dirkfansince1998]

I think letting him walk for free is an even worse disaster.

Like omahen said, the Mavs made their choice when they made the trade. Like it or not we're hitched to the Kyrie wagon for a bit until he wears out his welcome like he has at all other stops.

Damage is already done. Pick is lost. No need to repeat the KP scenario where the Mavs hold onto a player because of the price they paid to get him. No need to fall for the sunken cost fallacy.

[omahen]

Damage is already done. Pick is lost. No need to repeat the KP scenario where the Mavs hold onto a player because of the price they paid to get him. No need to fall for the sunken cost fallacy.

What actions do you think could change the Mavs perspective they had a couple of months ago and not resign Kyrie? They don't share concerns you do.

[loki]

Damage is already done. Pick is lost. No need to repeat the KP scenario where the Mavs hold onto a player because of the price they paid to get him. No need to fall for the sunken cost fallacy.

There is no path to contention if Kyrie walks. At a minimum you have to re-sign him, try to get a solid half year of play (seems possible given how great he's been so far), and then move him at the next trade deadline.

[dirkfansince1998]

What actions do you think could change the Mavs perspective they had a couple of months ago and not resign Kyrie? They don't share concerns you do.

Of course they don´t share my concerns. Otherwise they wouldn´t be in a situation like this  

More seriously...So far we haven´t heard any details about Kyrie´s future. As far as I know he wants to focus on his shoe. Looking back at the negotations with the Nets he wants a 4-year full guaranteed max deal. Mavs stated that they want to keep him. But they made similar promises in the past and we all know how it ended.
I hope that for once Cuban being cheap could work in the Mavs favor.

[omahen]

Of course they don´t share my concerns. Otherwise they wouldn´t be in a situation like this  

More seriously...So far we haven´t heard any details about Kyrie´s future. As far as I know he wants to focus on his shoe. Looking back at the negotations with the Nets he wants a 4-year full guaranteed max deal. Mavs stated that they want to keep him. But they made similar promises in the past and we all know how it ended.
I hope that for once Cuban being cheap could work in the Mavs favor.

If Kyrie walks, they might as well find a best deal for Luka. No way to convince him they are not totally incompetent if KI walks.

[ItsGoTime]

If Kyrie walks, they might as well find a best deal for Luka. No way to convince him they are not totally incompetent if KI walks.

Is there a way they can convince him right now that they are not totally incompetent? Maybe he is dumber than he looks?

[omahen]

Is there a way they can convince him right now that they are not totally incompetent?

They have until Kyrie thing ultimately fails or they are unable to build around them. It might be soon