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[F Gump]

I looked up his stats with the Aussies. Mediocre at best. Not getting lots of minutes. His plus/minus is awful (the worst on the team, I think). None of that is what we should expect if he was making a real impact. And it's vs an even lower level of competition than NBA.

My point about searching for shots is not about hoisting shots wildly, or in mass quantities, but rather about ALWAYS being in attack mode, so that the other team has to play you honest. And making plays for yourself too, and taking the shots when you have them. His passive mode, waiting for only the most perfect shot, and then declining some of those, makes it harder for everyone else, and makes it easier on the other team who only have to worry about defending 4.

"Player X is a good defender" is easy to assume and claim, but how true it is can be fuzzy to validate. With Green I see energy, he stays with the offensive player, but I don't see a superior number of plays being made that end possessions. And I don't think that any player is really special defensively without that. 

The comparisons to Bullock, I find those meaningless. Bullock is not on the team. If that's a money comparison, we paid Bullock MLE for his best, we liked Bullock at his best, he made plays, and he was good value with that play. We hated him at his worst, and sent him down the road when we didn't keep getting his best. I'm hoping to see them apply that same standard to Green, who could provide a reasonable replacement for 'Bullock at his best' if we're lucky. That's an MLE guy. But I'm saying let's not pretend Green's shown himself to be more than that, because he hasn't.

[Jym]

I looked up his stats with the Aussies. Mediocre at best. Not getting lots of minutes. His plus/minus is awful (the worst on the team, I think). None of that is what we should expect if he was making a real impact. And it's vs an even lower level of competition than NBA.

My point about searching for shots is not about hoisting shots wildly, or in mass quantities, but rather about ALWAYS being in attack mode, so that the other team has to play you honest. And making plays for yourself too, and taking the shots when you have them. His passive mode, waiting for only the most perfect shot, and then declining some of those, makes it harder for everyone else, and makes it easier on the other team who only have to worry about defending 4.

"Player X is a good defender" is easy to assume and claim, but how true it is can be fuzzy to validate. With Green I see energy, he stays with the offensive player, but I don't see a superior number of plays being made that end possessions. And I don't think that any player is really special defensively without that. 

The comparisons to Bullock, I find those meaningless. Bullock is not on the team. If that's a money comparison, we paid Bullock MLE for his best, we liked Bullock at his best, he made plays, and he was good value with that play. We hated him at his worst, and sent him down the road when we didn't keep getting his best. I'm hoping to see them apply that same standard to Green, who could provide a reasonable replacement for 'Bullock at his best' if we're lucky. That's an MLE guy. But I'm saying let's not pretend Green's shown himself to be more than that, because he hasn't.

I don't even know who you're arguing against 
Was thinking you were saying he wasn't an MLE guy til I got to the end

[F Gump]

I don't even know who you're arguing against 
Was thinking you were saying he wasn't an MLE guy til I got to the end

I'm arguing with those who see Green as a key player, as the 3rd most valuable on the team, as one who can't be traded, as one who we need to pay "whatever it takes" to keep. That feels like what I'm hearing from many, and I just don't buy into any of it.

At the MLE, I think he's a slight overpay. But not a bad one. But as you start sliding higher, I think it's not justified by what we've seen.

[Jym]

I'm arguing with those who see Green as a key player, as the 3rd most valuable on the team, as one who can't be traded, as one who we need to pay "whatever it takes" to keep. That feels like what I'm hearing from many, and I just don't buy into any of it.

At the MLE, I think he's a slight overpay. But not a bad one. But as you start sliding higher, I think it's not justified by what we've seen.

Maybe it doesn't happen but I feel like he has to be the top guy currently on the roster to fill the role as the #3 guy. And I would prefer testing him out with a set, defined role for a while before burning assets to replace him.

But I do think it would be irresponsible to go above 4 year/$60 mil this summer. 
That's right around what the MLE would be next year with the expected 10% cap raise

[F Gump]

But I do think it would be irresponsible to go above 4 year/$60 mil this summer. 
That's right around what the MLE would be next year with the expected 10% cap raise

I'm against 60. That's well over MLE, and more generally it's the concept of pay him X, well then a few mill more, ok, then a few more, ok, then how about just a bit more, and eventually you are well above what he's worth. 

Last year's MLE was under 52 for 4 years, and NBA current projection next year for MLE would be 4/54. I think that is the MOST he would be offered if he was a RFA, and don't see the wisdom in going way higher. It's bidding against yourself IMO.

Frankly, I wouldn't even start there. I think he is worth less than MLE, which this year was 4 yrs/51.8. Thybulle was offered 3 yrs/33M. With that as a baseline, I'd think I'd present him a choice of 3 yrs/33M or 4 yrs/48M as a reasonable deal based on comps. If you want those adjusted for cap inflation, then 3/34.5 or 4/50. But the Hard Cap World did not end last month, and if Green is a 11-12M player, you just can't be weak in negotiating and pay him 15.

[KillerLeft]

Last year's MLE was under 52 for 4 years, and NBA current projection next year for MLE would be 4/54. I think that is the MOST he would be offered if he was a RFA, and don't see the wisdom in going way higher. It's bidding against yourself IMO.

Frankly, I wouldn't even start there. I think he is worth less than MLE, which this year was 4 yrs/51.8. Thybulle was offered 3 yrs/33M. With that as a baseline, I'd think I'd present him a choice of 3 yrs/33M or 4 yrs/48M as a reasonable deal based on comps. If you want those adjusted for cap inflation, then 3/34.5 or 4/50. But the Hard Cap World did not end last month, and if Green is a 11-12M player, you just can't be weak in negotiating and pay him 15.

I agree with the above. And, while I think he looks like an MLE guy, I don't think he'd have gotten a ton of offers at that level had he been free this summer, because the one thing nobody can claim is that he has ever been a rotation player for a full season. We assume that's about to be the case, but then again, the Thybulle offer argues for a different preferred outcome from the Mavs' perspective. 

I think he's going to be good this year, but wouldn't want to make an offer north of MLE money right now, before we've seen him play the role we've all got him penciled into for at least one, full season.

[mvossman]

I looked up his stats with the Aussies. Mediocre at best. Not getting lots of minutes. His plus/minus is awful (the worst on the team, I think). None of that is what we should expect if he was making a real impact. And it's vs an even lower level of competition than NBA.

My point about searching for shots is not about hoisting shots wildly, or in mass quantities, but rather about ALWAYS being in attack mode, so that the other team has to play you honest. And making plays for yourself too, and taking the shots when you have them. His passive mode, waiting for only the most perfect shot, and then declining some of those, makes it harder for everyone else, and makes it easier on the other team who only have to worry about defending 4.

"Player X is a good defender" is easy to assume and claim, but how true it is can be fuzzy to validate. With Green I see energy, he stays with the offensive player, but I don't see a superior number of plays being made that end possessions. And I don't think that any player is really special defensively without that. 

The comparisons to Bullock, I find those meaningless. Bullock is not on the team. If that's a money comparison, we paid Bullock MLE for his best, we liked Bullock at his best, he made plays, and he was good value with that play. We hated him at his worst, and sent him down the road when we didn't keep getting his best. I'm hoping to see them apply that same standard to Green, who could provide a reasonable replacement for 'Bullock at his best' if we're lucky. That's an MLE guy. But I'm saying let's not pretend Green's shown himself to be more than that, because he hasn't.

Green probably gets compared to Bullock due to the fact its the only decent MLE signing this team has made in the recent past.  Thats the bar.  Would you rather spend the MLE on a 30 year old Bullock (when we did) or the equivalent extension for a 22 year old Green.  In my mind its not really that close.  We got more from Bullock in his first year (second half) than I expected, and less in his second.  I expect roughly the same from Green with way more upside potential.  He is only 22 and has improved every year in the league.  Call me skeptical that we could do better (or even as good) as Green with the MLE next offseason when you take into account his age and growth potential.  The fact he will be restricted will depress his value some (although maybe not as much now that its only 24 hour wait time) which is why I figure roughly MLE is about right price.

[KillerLeft]

Green probably gets compared to Bullock due to the fact its the only decent MLE signing this team has made in the recent past. 

Well, that and the fact that Bullock's literal on-court job is the one there for Green to take (thank God).

[surfpuckmd]

All that is just another layer of excuses and strawmen (no one has said he needs to be an "offensive star" or an 18-20 ppg scorer) to try to rationalize away the recurrent fact that Green needs to be productive, but often simply is not. And we can't say it's because of Luka-Kyrie, when the fact is that he goes to play with lesser players and against lesser competition and he's even worse. 
 
The problem everywhere is that his impact is negated by a lack of quantity of plays being made (on both ends). 

On offense, he can't just be a bystander, accepting leftovers and only shooting wide open shots, if he is to be regarded and paid as a key player. He has to be looking for shots, and taking hard ones when needed, to pressure the opposition in a different way. On defense, he has to proactively make plays, not just shadow an opponent, if he is to be an actual defensive difference-maker. And it needs to happen a lot, in a way that alters the opponents' offense, not just a play or two a game.

I hear the arguments about "potential" yet pointing to potential is an admission he isn't doing it yet, with a hope he does better one day. IMO he's given excessive slack because he's the Mavs Great FRP Hope, ie he's given credit for what they want him to be and what a FRP should be, rather than evaluated (and ultimately paid) for who he is and how well he plays now.

I've already made my argument on this and I am trying to understand yours.

If your argument is that the player Josh Green was last season is only worth the MLE, than I agree with you.  Last year, he was an average to slightly above average defensive player and a very good 3-point shooter on modest attempts.  He had a few flashes of handling the ball and made some nice passes when he was asked to do so.  If he were 30 years old with that production, then I would agree that he would be worth the MLE or less.

However, he was 21 years old at the start of last season.  He has improved markedly over the past two years.  He is still only 22 years old.  Not all 22 year old NBA rotation players improve but most do.  Especially those who have shown dramatic improvement over their first few seasons.  He is not the same player he was two years ago and I think the Mavericks will have to factor in that he is likely to improve further when they determine what his future value is to this team.

There will be a lot of teams with a lot of cap space next summer.  Teams like the Spurs, Magic, Rockets, Pistons, Wizards, Jazz and Pacers may each have more than $50 million next summer to improve their teams.  Several of them will have closer to $75 million.  Most of the premiere free agents next off-season are over-30 vets that won't be interested in those teams.  The best players from the 2020 draft class have either signed or will soon sign extensions-  Immannuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels are likely to extend soon.   Nic Claxton and OG Anunoby are the best young free agents next off-season and will both receive near-max offers.   After that, there will not a lot of good young players available.  I think Josh Green will be an attractive option to those teams holding all that cap space. 

If we wait until next summer to determine his value, then we risk having to match a contract that is much larger than the MLE.  One season ago, I never would have predicted that Max Strus, Rui Hachimura or Bruce Brown would receive contracts for more than the MLE this summer.  Yet, each of them will make significantly more than the MLE.  It is expensive to acquire players in free agency as we should have learned ourselves over the past 12 off-seasons.

The difference between your reasoning on Josh Green and mine is that you want him to be paid based upon what you saw last season (and a bit of what you saw in FIBA).  I believe we will have to pay him an additional premium based upon his age and the dramatic improvement he has shown over the past two years.  I think you also have to factor in the avalanche of cap space that is coming up next off-season.   

I believe it would be better to extend him at $16 million this summer than to wait until next off-season to match the offers he will receive.  If he continues his current trajectory and makes even some marginal improvements, then he will receive offers as a starting-level 23 year old player.  I think those offers could be over $20 million next off-season.  If he makes more significant improvement as a facilitator, then those offers will become really exorbitant.   We would then be putting a lot of faith in Mark Cuban spending a lot of money.   That hasn't always worked out for us.

[ItsGoTime]

I do mostly have my expectations high on Green, thinking this is the year he figures it out. I will say, this summer has not been kind to what I thought would happen with either Green or Hardy. So I feel the need to temper my expectations for the season on them. I really hope we are able to extend Green at less than MLE, if so, I’ll be very happy to see him outperform that contract.

[myconsumerclub]

If Green is getting SF minutes predominantly and we see OMax get time there along with Grant and both look good then that is going to make Green look a bit expendable and as an asset since he is already a bit undersized as a SF and he would be a nice SG if his shot was better but with Luka Irving and Hardy and still having THJ and Seth his path to more minutes is at SF. Even his buddy Dante is 6'6" and a guy with SF skills. DJJ might even be someone that is playing PF because he is unable to earn minutes as a 3.

[KillerLeft]

If Green is getting SF minutes predominantly and we see OMax get time there along with Grant and both look good then that is going to make Green look a bit expendable and as an asset since he is already a bit undersized as a SF and he would be a nice SG if his shot was better but with Luka Irving and Hardy and still having THJ and Seth his path to more minutes is at SF. Even his buddy Dante is 6'6" and a guy with SF skills. DJJ might even be someone that is playing PF because he is unable to earn minutes as a 3.

We have to remember that with Luka on the floor, Green would be a 3 on offense, only. 

When it comes to all the things people worry about in terms of defensive size and/or speed, Luka is NOT occupying a guard spot.

I think Green is EXACTLY the type needed next to Luka/Kyrie. You need someone FAST to guard point of attack.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

The whole conversation is kind of interesting to me. F Gump talking straw man about how he’s not claiming Green needs to be a star but I would say the whole convo feels straw man-y to me because I don’t think the other side of the conversation has said anything about him being untouchable either.

It feels like everyone agrees that Green at the MLE is the correct price so there’s not much real conversation around that either.

It feels there’s folks here who don’t feel Green has shown any improvement or increased productivity at all while the other folks feel like they have seen steady growth and expect more and that’s kind of the crux of the whole conversation. Everyone seems to agree on value but are just coming at it from different perspectives.

[F Gump]

I've already made my argument on this and I am trying to understand yours.

If your argument is that the player Josh Green was last season is only worth the MLE, than I agree with you.  Last year, he was an average to slightly above average defensive player and a very good 3-point shooter on modest attempts.  He had a few flashes of handling the ball and made some nice passes when he was asked to do so.  If he were 30 years old with that production, then I would agree that he would be worth the MLE or less.

However, he was 21 years old at the start of last season.  He has improved markedly over the past two years.  He is still only 22 years old.  Not all 22 year old NBA rotation players improve but most do.  Especially those who have shown dramatic improvement over their first few seasons.  He is not the same player he was two years ago and I think the Mavericks will have to factor in that he is likely to improve further when they determine what his future value is to this team.

There will be a lot of teams with a lot of cap space next summer.  Teams like the Spurs, Magic, Rockets, Pistons, Wizards, Jazz and Pacers may each have more than $50 million next summer to improve their teams.  Several of them will have closer to $75 million.  Most of the premiere free agents next off-season are over-30 vets that won't be interested in those teams.  The best players from the 2020 draft class have either signed or will soon sign extensions-  Immannuel Quickley and Jaden McDaniels are likely to extend soon.   Nic Claxton and OG Anunoby are the best young free agents next off-season and will both receive near-max offers.   After that, there will not a lot of good young players available.  I think Josh Green will be an attractive option to those teams holding all that cap space. 

If we wait until next summer to determine his value, then we risk having to match a contract that is much larger than the MLE.  One season ago, I never would have predicted that Max Strus, Rui Hachimura or Bruce Brown would receive contracts for more than the MLE this summer.  Yet, each of them will make significantly more than the MLE.  It is expensive to acquire players in free agency as we should have learned ourselves over the past 12 off-seasons.

The difference between your reasoning on Josh Green and mine is that you want him to be paid based upon what you saw last season (and a bit of what you saw in FIBA).  I believe we will have to pay him an additional premium based upon his age and the dramatic improvement he has shown over the past two years.  I think you also have to factor in the avalanche of cap space that is coming up next off-season.   

I believe it would be better to extend him at $16 million this summer than to wait until next off-season to match the offers he will receive.  If he continues his current trajectory and makes even some marginal improvements, then he will receive offers as a starting-level 23 year old player.  I think those offers could be over $20 million next off-season.  If he makes more significant improvement as a facilitator, then those offers will become really exorbitant.   We would then be putting a lot of faith in Mark Cuban spending a lot of money.   That hasn't always worked out for us.

I understand your point, which is that the Mavs need to pay Green MORE THAN he has shown he is worth, as a preemptive move so that he can't get away. And you assume he will raise his value considerably over the next year, with the thought that he did so this past season.

I just don't agree with those thoughts.

In particular, I think Green fell short last year in how much he raised his game. It was better than the year before (although, it would almost be impossible not to be). But he still was shy about shooting, looking for perfect shots only, or preferring a pass over an obvious shot. Getting to the rim uncontested then passing to the perimeter, rather than taking a layup or dunk, ugh, what an abomination that we'd see regularly. 

Obviously what happens next season cannot be known, but his progress this summer has been super meh, going backwards, which argues against the assumption he will automatically get better in 2023-24. Those factors speak to both current value and his future.

You cite players who got paid more in FA than you expected as a cautionary example. That's fair. But rare. Yet otoh, afaik no RFAs signed an offer sheet and left at an exorbitant unmatched offer-- the ability to match tends to deter offers in the first place. Some FAs who got away were a result of their teams being choked by Hard Cap or by Payroll challenges -- which, relevantly, come when you opt to overpay your roster piece by piece.

I'm also leery of the idea that similar players to Green in contributions, ie primarily defense with anemic offense, will be money-whipped. 

Some FA comps to keep in mind - Thybulle 3/33, G Williams 4/53. There's no reason to think Green's trajectory exceeds either of theirs. And that should also be reasonable way to assess what the Mavs (and others) want to pay for that type of player.

Sure, with every player there's the risk some team will lose their minds and overpay wildly. But I think a Hard Cap World makes that less likely, when the price of an overpay on one player is going to strangle you on others. Even with teams who have huge cap room, I expect they'll want to save it for a star, sooner or later, and not blow it all on very overpaid mid-tier guys. At some price point the player isn't worth it. 

IOW, if you think he's high risk, where he's going to be getting $20M a year even though he's a defense-based player with anemic offense, then I'd rather see the Mavs including him in trade proposals, rather than paying him way more than he's worth as a defensive move. I wouldn't want them to squeeze that bloat into their payroll.

[The Jom]

This “don’t overpay” argument sounds eerily familiar. I think it was Brunson. And I think the numbers tossed around here were 18 and 20 million/year. If this board thinks about 12 million for Josh, that makes me think it’ll be at least 18.

[surfpuckmd]

In particular, I think Green fell short last year in how much he raised his game. It was better than the year before (although, it would almost be impossible not to be). But he still was shy about shooting, looking for perfect shots only, or preferring a pass over an obvious shot. Getting to the rim uncontested then passing to the perimeter, rather than taking a layup or dunk, ugh, what an abomination that we'd see regularly. 

Obviously what happens next season cannot be known, but his progress this summer has been super meh, going backwards, which argues against the assumption he will automatically get better in 2023-24. Those factors speak to both current value and his future.


Some FA comps to keep in mind - Thybulle 3/33, G Williams 4/53. There's no reason to think Green's trajectory exceeds either of theirs. And that should also be reasonable way to assess what the Mavs (and others) want to pay for that type of player.

Good post.  The Mavs and Josh Green's agent are probably having a similar argument about fair value for his extension.

The path to Josh Green becoming an above-average starter is not a difficult one.  

His defense is already pretty good and will become better with experience.  He is already one of the best young guard/wing defenders in the NBA.  The athleticism and effort are already outstanding.  More NBA repetitions will make him an elite NBA wing-defender.  Regular NBA minutes and good coaching should guarantee this.

Offensively, he needs to become more assertive in exactly the way you explained it.  He needs to take the open shot when he has it and needs to finish at the rim.  A good coach will encourage this.  A bad coach will not.  We'll all learn a lot about Jason Kidd this coming season.  

I think Josh played better offensively prior to the Kyrie trade.  I think he struggled post-Kyrie.  I guess he thought he should defer to two of the best offensive players in the NBA.  As I posted earlier, when Luka didn't play, Josh was much more assertive offensively as evidenced by 15.7 ppg and 3.5 apg.  Other teams will notice that and believe he might thrive on a team without a ball-dominant superstar.  

Josh's numbers for FIBA mean nothing.  Australia's coach could not have cared less that we wanted to see Josh Green handle the ball and initiate the offense more.  Josh played the role his coach asked him to play.  I think his coach probably deserves a lot of criticism for Australia's poor showing.  Josh Green does not.

I like the comparison of Grant Williams to Josh Green.  I think they are currently at a similar level of NBA impact.  I think Josh is slightly better defensively already.  Grant is clearly a better 3-point shooter despite Josh's percentage last season.  The difference is that Josh is two years younger, has better handles and is a better passer already.  When Grant Williams tries to create, it doesn't go well.  Grant is much more confident and provides some physicality that we need.  I think they both fit well here and I would like to keep them both here for at least a couple of years.  

I like the Grant Williams acquisition and I think the contract is very fair.  I think this board is generally overrating Grant Williams though and I expect some on this board will turn on him as the season progresses.  Eventually, most will realize that he is also just a role player.  He is a 3 and D with average defense.  I think that fits well with this roster though so I'll defend him if he plays that role well.  We have all seen Grant Williams succeed in the playoffs but he accomplished very little during this past season's playoffs.  In fact, he averaged 5 points and 2 rebounds per game.  That is anemic.  

Josh Green has more room for improvement than Grant Williams and I think the Mavs may have to pay something for that potential.  

If we had a more reliable owner, I think it would be reasonable to let the season play out and then just match whatever offer Josh receives next-offseason.  I worry though that there will be some new excuse next summer to not spend the money-  whether it be the Jaden Hardy extension or a concerted effort to clear cap space for a Giannis pursuit.  I would prefer the guarantee of extending Josh Green now and then letting this youngish team grow together for the next few seasons.

[Mavs2021]

This “don’t overpay” argument sounds eerily familiar. I think it was Brunson. And I think the numbers tossed around here were 18 and 20 million/year. If this board thinks about 12 million for Josh, that makes me think it’ll be at least 18.

The difference being Brunson had proven to be a badass and was an UFA.

Green has proven to have potential, but also a personality problem and he is a RFA.

I´m 100% fine with the Mavs making HIM prove it. This is a contract year, so if he will ever shed his deferral attitude it has to be this year. 

And unlike some other lazy bastards, who just dial it up in a contract year, I have absolutely no fear, that he´d start mailing it in again, once he got paid. 

He doesn´t have to be an Alpha, but something has to bring out the Beta in him, cause you can´t pay him big money being a Delta.

Also I think we might have a style problem with Doncic/Green. I don´t think it was a coincidence that Green had his best games without Luka, cause the pace was faster. Green is like a friend of mine, who is an amazing athlete with no basketball skill. He just ran us ragged with his soccer fitness. After a while he was doing ugly full court dribble lay-up drills on us with our tongues hanging out. In the halfcourt, undersized with his rudimentary dribbling and shooting skills he was mediocre at best.

[omahen]

I see the Green risk differently, as I tried to explain before. He is what he is now, but there is possibility of potential. So lets simplify, that the player market value is based on his current status and potential. Current status is what we see and we mostly all see it the same, based on his stats and impact. Potential is more subjective. Some see it more than others.

Lets say Greens current status value is 10 points. Lets say that at this point Greens additional value because of potential is another 10 points. So what happens in a year is, that part of that potential value will either transfer to current status value, because player will improve, or it will dissapear, because there will be no improvement and evaluation of potential will change.

Scenarios possible about his value in 2024 are:
- Green realizes his potential and his current status value increase. He has now perhaps a 20 points current value and still some potential, which was not seen before.
- Green basically remains same player. In this case his current value stays 10 points, but the value of potential will decrease, becuase teams will at some point say - he is who he is
- anything in between the before stated extreme scenarios

My point is - if some other team values Green at "20 points" now, because they believe in potential. Would it be smart to sell now, because there is a possibility, that his value will be lower next season?

[Mapka]

I see the Green risk differently, as I tried to explain before. He is what he is now, but there is possibility of potential. So lets simplify, that the player market value is based on his current status and potential. Current status is what we see and we mostly all see it the same, based on his stats and impact. Potential is more subjective. Some see it more than others.

Lets say Greens current status value is 10 points. Lets say that at this point Greens additional value because of potential is another 10 points. So what happens in a year is, that part of that potential value will either transfer to current status value, because player will improve, or it will dissapear, because there will be no improvement and evaluation of potential will change.

Scenarios possible about his value in 2024 are:
- Green realizes his potential and his current status value increase. He has now perhaps a 20 points current value and still some potential, which was not seen before.
- Green basically remains same player. In this case his current value stays 10 points, but the value of potential will decrease, becuase teams will at some point say - he is who he is
- anything in between the before stated extreme scenarios

My point is - if some other team values Green at "20 points" now, because they believe in potential. Would it be smart to sell now, because there is a possibility, that his value will be lower next season?

What would you sell him for?
We have two question marks in the lineup.
His position and Center.

Does somebody give us a better player at his position or a better C and someone as good as him at his position?

[omahen]

What would you sell him for?
We have two question marks in the lineup. 
His position and Center.

Does somebody give us a better player at his position or a better C and someone as good as him at his position?

If Green is what he is, than we will likely need a better player at his position anyway. We also need a center. Since we can't solve both, I would be fine with one and seek to solve the other later. In any case, Mavs as they are are not a contender this season. Realistically, it is unlikely that someone would give us a better wing. Hopefully you can get a starting center for a back-up center (Holmes) and Green. 

If Green is traded, we have THJ for this season as a gap solution at the wing. We know he is not the right guy for the role, but he is ok enough not to be a complete liability. Next season (or perhaps at TDL) you use THJ expiring and draft assets for hopefully that final piece of the puzzle.