(07-21-2023, 04:00 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: My general feeling about Cuban is that he´s still very stingy with his money. We have seen if for the last decade with the roster, but also the leaking roof that must be celebrating his 18th birthday soon. The training facilities seem old and worn down, while other franchises invest into state of the art buildings.
I laughed my a** off recently, when somebody did a HT shots video, and buried the Mavs as the cheapest bastards. Other teams give you 10k for a halfcourt shot. Mavs make you hit a lay-up, a free throw, a three point shot and a half court shot and then give you a flatscreen TV.
And it´s probably the same with assistants and even GMs. I doubt that it is just about control and power. Cuban simply doesn´t want to pay a Masai Ujiri or Nick Nurse their open market salaries. Sure he paid Carlisle, but you could argue that saved him millions, cause he carried the annual shitshow to a first round exit worth a few extra millions, when an average coach would have won 28-32 games.
The Mavs recently just opened a brand new training facility that was finally complete in 2022. It features a barbershop, video game room, and several high end workout facilities. It cost Cuban multiple millions of dollars.
Jason Kidd is currently the 5th (or 6th depending on sources) highest paid coach in the league. Which means the Mavs coaching staff overall should rank among the highest overall.
I get its fun to call Cuban out, but Cuban has given us so much material there shouldn't be any reason to make stuff up to degrade him and the Mavs.
I frankly don't give a crap what prizes the team gives out too btw.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
07-21-2023, 04:22 PM (This post was last modified: 07-21-2023, 04:49 PM by Smitty.)
Do Mavs fans here not think this team can contend because of the way last year ended? If they sign Kyrie this offseason, without ever seeing him play for the team last year, I think most everyone would have a more positive outlook.
2 years ago they went to the WCF with Luka, Brunson, Reggie, DFS and Powell as the starters.
The others that played more than 18 minutes in that series:
Dinwiddie
Maxi
Ntilikina
Bertans
The starters this year, if you add a Capela type: Luka, Kyrie, Green, Williams, Capela
Luka is better than he was 2 years ago. Kyrie is no worse than Brunson on the court. Green and Williams are about equal for what Reggie and DFS did that year and Capela (or other) is significantly better than Powell.
And the bench isn’t even comparable if we’re talking about Frank and Bertans getting burn.
The Mavs recently just opened a brand new training facility that was finally complete in 2022. It features a barbershop, video game room, and several high end workout facilities. It cost Cuban multiple millions of dollars.
Jason Kidd is currently the 5th (or 6th depending on sources) highest paid coach in the league. Which means the Mavs coaching staff overall should rank among the highest overall.
I get its fun to call Cuban out, but Cuban has given us so much material there shouldn't be any reason to make stuff up to degrade him and the Mavs.
I frankly don't give a crap what prizes the team gives out too btw.
(07-21-2023, 04:22 PM)Smitty Wrote: Do Mavs fans here not think this team can contend because of the way last year ended? If they sign Kyrie this offseason, without ever seeing him play for the team last year, I think most everyone would have a more positive outlook.
2 years ago they went to the WCF with Luka, Brunson, Reggie, DFS and Powell as the starters.
The others that played more than 18 minutes in that series:
Dinwiddie
Maxi
Ntilikina
Bertans
The starters this year, if you add a Capela type: Luka, Kyrie, Green, Williams, Capela
Luka is better than he was 2 years ago. Kyrie is no worse than Brunson on the court. Green and Williams are about equal for what Reggie and DFS did that year and Capela (or other) is significantly better than Powell.
And the bench isn’t even comparable if we’re talking about Frank and Bertans getting burn.
Nope…not in the West this year and Capela won’t change that.
It’s not that I don’t have a positive outlook. I think they have done some great things and are positioned to potentially contend quicker than I thought. I’m just a realist.
I may have short term memory loss, but seems like I remember many cases being made that vet-min or near min centers are all the Mavs need. Now, we're talking about Ayton and Capela on big contracts that their teams seem to want to get off. Is it because Jokic and Embiid have emerged as perennial MVPs?
(07-21-2023, 04:22 PM)Smitty Wrote: Do Mavs fans here not think this team can contend because of the way last year ended? If they sign Kyrie this offseason, without ever seeing him play for the team last year, I think most everyone would have a more positive outlook.
2 years ago they went to the WCF with Luka, Brunson, Reggie, DFS and Powell as the starters.
The others that played more than 18 minutes in that series:
Dinwiddie
Maxi
Ntilikina
Bertans
The starters this year, if you add a Capela type: Luka, Kyrie, Green, Williams, Capela
Luka is better than he was 2 years ago. Kyrie is no worse than Brunson on the court. Green and Williams are about equal for what Reggie and DFS did that year and Capela (or other) is significantly better than Powell.
And the bench isn’t even comparable if we’re talking about Frank and Bertans getting burn.
I think they have a chance of being a top 6 team, sure.
Can't speak for anyone else, but the things I'm most worried about are:
1) that there are no fewer than 11 teams in the West with reason to think that way. This might not be the most dominant the West has ever been at the top, but I think it's probably the deepest I've seen during my fandom.
2) I am not super worried about this, but technically, we haven't really seen Luka/Kyrie work together to synergetic bliss. I assume they can play together as well as Luka/Brunson, but we need to see it.
3) Kyrie, in general, is a wild card. We are currently in the honeymoon phase with him as fans, but I promise you that the problems with his other teams weren't just misunderstandings driven by the media. Maybe he plays this entire year, or even this entire contract out without incident, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
4) I'm excited about the talent/athletic infusion, but the new players are young. Great for the future of the team, both medium and long term, not so great for those hoping to see a 50-win season. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but it's a concern.
5) In a general sense, I'm a believer in continuity. It's one of the reasons I'm not concerned so much about keeping Powell around. In a team dynamic, even the slightest change can create waves that nobody sees coming, both good and bad. And, if they're good waves, it usually takes a couple of years keeping the core together for them to reach their potential. This, to me, feels like year 1 of a new direction in some key ways. I doubt they will reach the best version of themselves this year, but you never know.
6) I do think there are things Luka has left to learn about being the focal point of an NBA contender. You don't win points around here being remotely critical of Luka, and that's not my intention, but I think that even with his gifts, which are many and substantial, he has some things to learn about how to win at this level. Recently, it has seemed like the community is more worried about him leaving than whether or not he'll be able to get to the top level. I hope HE is focused on getting better.
7) Jason Kidd...trying to go in with an open mind, but in both of his first two seasons he has tried to reconstruct the Lakers' bubble team and systems. The first year he gave up about halfway through the year and let them revert back to the awesome stuff Carlisle had in place. Last year, he stubbornly kept at it. I hate those systems, hate that team, and generally haven't found much reason to respect his abilities as a basketball tactician, so far. This year will be his last chance, for me. I don't need them to win, but I need to see some evidence of organizing principals that have worked recently in the NBA.
(07-21-2023, 05:11 PM)Hooper21 Wrote: I may have short term memory loss, but seems like I remember many cases being made that vet-min or near min centers are all the Mavs need. Now, we're talking about Ayton and Capela on big contracts that their teams seem to want to get off. Is it because Jokic and Embiid have emerged as perennial MVPs?
You remember quite correctly.
Some of us meant it, and those of us in that camp are pretty fine with where the center rotation is. Others, apparently, were just talking.
(07-21-2023, 05:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think they have a chance of being a top 6 team, sure.
Can't speak for anyone else, but the things I'm most worried about are:
1) that there are no fewer than 11 teams in the West with reason to think that way. This might not be the most dominant the West has ever been at the top, but I think it's probably the deepest I've seen during my fandom.
2) I am not super worried about this, but technically, we haven't really seen Luka/Kyrie work together to synergetic bliss. I assume they can play together as well as Luka/Brunson, but we need to see it.
3) Kyrie, in general, is a wild card. We are currently in the honeymoon phase with him as fans, but I promise you that the problems with his other teams weren't just misunderstandings driven by the media. Maybe he plays this entire year, or even this entire contract out without incident, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
4) I'm excited about the talent/athletic infusion, but the new players are young. Great for the future of the team, both medium and long term, not so great for those hoping to see a 50-win season. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but it's a concern.
5) In a general sense, I'm a believer in continuity. It's one of the reasons I'm not concerned so much about keeping Powell around. In a team dynamic, even the slightest change can create waves that nobody sees coming, both good and bad. And, if they're good waves, it usually takes a couple of years keeping the core together for them to reach their potential. This, to me, feels like year 1 of a new direction in some key ways. I doubt they will reach the best version of themselves this year, but you never know.
6) I do think there are things Luka has left to learn about being the focal point of an NBA contender. You don't win points around here being remotely critical of Luka, and that's not my intention, but I think that even with his gifts, which are many and substantial, he has some things to learn about how to win at this level. Recently, it has seemed like the community is more worried about him leaving than whether or not he'll be able to get to the top level. I hope HE is focused on getting better.
7) Jason Kidd...trying to go in with an open mind, but in both of his first two seasons he has tried to reconstruct the Lakers' bubble team and systems. The first year he gave up about halfway through the year and let them revert back to the awesome stuff Carlisle had in place. Last year, he stubbornly kept at it. I hate those systems, hate that team, and generally haven't found much reason to respect his abilities as a basketball tactician, so far. This year will be his last chance, for me. I don't need them to win, but I need to see some evidence of organizing principals that have worked recently in the NBA.
All of the points you made are valid in my opinion. Not much I can add to the “why not” you’ve laid out other than there are probably 28 teams that have as many if not more.
I know that you and I were the main downers about last offseason and to be honest I watched the fewest games I’ve probably ever watched last year. But this year I couldn’t be more optimistic about the “why’s”.
Luka and Kyrie are top 15 players.
Grant Williams is exactly what those two need
Josh Green is HIM
Give me Capela or another defensive center and they’re as competitive as anyone.
(07-21-2023, 06:02 PM)Smitty Wrote: I know that you and I were the main downers about last offseason and to be honest I watched the fewest games I’ve probably ever watched last year. But this year I couldn’t be more optimistic about the “why’s”.
Oh, for sure. I am way more excited about this coming season than I anticipated being at the beginning of the summer.
Not unexpected. Mavs probably don´t want to have two small guards on two-way deals and Miles Jr played better in summer league. Miles Jr is 20. Wright IV is 24. Easy decision.
Not a big fan but I would assume that Lawson stays. Gets one more season to figure out his 3-ball and improve his decision making. That leaves one more two-way spot. Just looking at the Mavs summer league roster Taze Moore but he is already 25. Personally I would prefer a bigger body (Barlow, Azubuike, Simonovic).
Or just for fun and as a marketing move. Mac McClung.
(07-22-2023, 07:32 AM)I’m dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Not unexpected. Mavs probably don´t want to have two small guards on two-way deals and Miles Jr played better in summer league. Miles Jr is 20. Wright IV is 24. Easy decision.
Not a big fan but I would assume that Lawson stays. Gets one more season to figure out his 3-ball and improve his decision making. That leaves one more two-way spot. Just looking at the Mavs summer league roster Taze Moore but he is already 25. Personally I would prefer a bigger body (Barlow, Azubuike, Simonovic).
Or just for fun and as a marketing move. Mac McClung.
I am hoping for a bigger guy for the last spot. Barlow is a good name. Not him personally but a guy at at age and skill set. I would also be fine with another big wing as well. San Antonio has one of these as well who played well in summer league.
I agree about Wright. It was surprising to hear Demaris say he would be shocked if Jelly Walker doesn’t get a two way slot with the mavs and that he has huge fans with people high in the organization. I can already tell u Cuban is one after his comments prior to the games. Two six foot guards in two ways would be an interesting decision though.
07-22-2023, 11:26 AM (This post was last modified: 07-22-2023, 11:35 AM by myconsumerclub.)
Big body is needed to be the teams body guard and I am even open to signing Boban again. Azabuike rebounds well enough to be the thug we send in to foul the other teams center that cannot hit free throws. That kind of player is cool to have especially when they can dunk and score inside at a high FG% like Azabuike and Boban can. Plus the other teams 2nd chance scoring opportunities drop to almost zero when you get the rebounds like that. That is all we need at center we do not need to over pay and give up assets for a guy like Capella.
We already have Lively and he just needs a few months to get his game in shape by NBA standards. If a guy like Azabuike does not work out then you cut him and you try to do a deal by the TDL. He sure looked good on Boston's SL team and I would have preferred to take on Yurtseven but hey he can hit a 3 so maybe his game fits LOL. We where busy getting suckered into doing nothing by courting teams that have no real intention of giving us a center. That was a con game to keep our attention focused on shinny objects instead of settling in on guys that might be better than Powell that are available in free agency. Only one left of that bunch IMHO is Azabuike and if we keep McGee I would use him before I ever used Powell for anything.
We are still in team construction phase and so we need to take advantage of other teams that cut players and useful bigs.
Right now we see everyone waiting to see who OKC cuts and that is the big waiting game for now.
Teams do not want to miss out on a young prospect that drops in their lap and we are lower on the totem pole so we get first dibs before any contenders.
The first part of the season should be about testing who we have and not playing old vets.
They can be backups but not starters. Starters face starting talent and starting talent makes our trash look like trash and older vets tend to slack off and suck at the start of the season anyway. At least it seems ours do. THJ did the last few years as did Bullock.
The older vets need to be played against lesser talents who come off the bench, since the bench guys may not kill them as much and make them look like total trash.
Once exposed as trash they become impossible to trade and we will then have to stretch wave guys or include them in trades with younger talent and draft picks.
It is all about building up their trade value to other teams at this point.
Guys on the TDL trade block should include: SG/SF THJ, Exum, Seth C McGee, Powell, PF/C Kleber, Holmes. Only trade for someone who is a fit for any area of need and don't create a hole on the team that can't be filled instantly.
We have these guys as our core players and young prospects
PG Luka irving Miles Jelly
SG Irving Hardy Green Lawson
SF Grant Green Lawson
PF OMax Grant
C Lively
Depth at center is needed and we could use a younger center than someone on the wrong end of 30 or nearing that. Another PF might be useful as well.
Next years draft is filled with more centers so if we want to add another young guy that falls into the 2nd round that may be possible since they seem to fall into later picks more often these days. The guys we sign or trade for need to be guys we can trade off as well. Centers are obviously tough to trade when they get older. It doesn't look like Cap Hella is getting a lot of teams wanting to take him on. Valanciunas is older as well and he is expiring which makes him perfect if you ask me. He may not be as costly to resign. The issue is NOP has no decent centers to use once he is gone. If they suck and fall out of contention for the play offs they may look to trade him anyway since they know the draft is filled with talent next year. TDL is going to be interesting and teams may be pulling a stealth tank job to copy what we did last year so they can go in the other direction if they see a need to do that.
If we find our rookies can survive and thrive early on, then the better things will be for us, and then we can just count on getting that 2nd center in the draft next year with a second round pick and move on to winning now mode and playing our hand that we have.
Azabuike might be a fit then for a one year deal to hold us over till next season and maybe some prospect that OKC lets go at the final roster cut can be a candidate for our final piece.
Center and bigs to replace older vets are what we need to be on the look out for.
We can even see about trading off more of our older vets on the trade block just to clear roster spots for the guys that another team may want to cut. Some conversation with OKC would be wise just to see if we can get a heads up and if any of our older vets appeal to them. Doubtful they do but hey you never know.
(07-21-2023, 05:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think they have a chance of being a top 6 team, sure.
Can't speak for anyone else, but the things I'm most worried about are:
1) that there are no fewer than 11 teams in the West with reason to think that way. This might not be the most dominant the West has ever been at the top, but I think it's probably the deepest I've seen during my fandom.
2) I am not super worried about this, but technically, we haven't really seen Luka/Kyrie work together to synergetic bliss. I assume they can play together as well as Luka/Brunson, but we need to see it.
3) Kyrie, in general, is a wild card. We are currently in the honeymoon phase with him as fans, but I promise you that the problems with his other teams weren't just misunderstandings driven by the media. Maybe he plays this entire year, or even this entire contract out without incident, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
4) I'm excited about the talent/athletic infusion, but the new players are young. Great for the future of the team, both medium and long term, not so great for those hoping to see a 50-win season. Doesn't mean it's not possible, but it's a concern.
5) In a general sense, I'm a believer in continuity. It's one of the reasons I'm not concerned so much about keeping Powell around. In a team dynamic, even the slightest change can create waves that nobody sees coming, both good and bad. And, if they're good waves, it usually takes a couple of years keeping the core together for them to reach their potential. This, to me, feels like year 1 of a new direction in some key ways. I doubt they will reach the best version of themselves this year, but you never know.
6) I do think there are things Luka has left to learn about being the focal point of an NBA contender. You don't win points around here being remotely critical of Luka, and that's not my intention, but I think that even with his gifts, which are many and substantial, he has some things to learn about how to win at this level. Recently, it has seemed like the community is more worried about him leaving than whether or not he'll be able to get to the top level. I hope HE is focused on getting better.
7) Jason Kidd...trying to go in with an open mind, but in both of his first two seasons he has tried to reconstruct the Lakers' bubble team and systems. The first year he gave up about halfway through the year and let them revert back to the awesome stuff Carlisle had in place. Last year, he stubbornly kept at it. I hate those systems, hate that team, and generally haven't found much reason to respect his abilities as a basketball tactician, so far. This year will be his last chance, for me. I don't need them to win, but I need to see some evidence of organizing principals that have worked recently in the NBA.
The only things I’m worried could stop the Mavs from a top 4 in the West seed and 50ish win season:
07-23-2023, 07:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-23-2023, 07:56 AM by ThisIStheYear.)
On the two way guys, you could probably run 15 of them through your roster over a 5 year period and be lucky if one works out as a bottom of the rotation or even a semi regular spot player. I’d just use all three to reward your own top summer league players regardless of position. If you really needed someone during the season to actually play in an emergency, you’d do better bringing in a vet off the street on a 10 day. Outside of the two first rounders and Hardy — Miles, Jelly, and Lawson were easily the three best Mavs SL players. IMO, only Miles has even a 10% chance of becoming a viable player, but I’d give the other SL standouts a shot.
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