AROUND the NBA: MIN Sweeps PHX!

[Chicagojk]

Mark Williams is really good, too. He was more of a sure thing. Therefore I´d not have traded either pick, I´d just have taken both. Duren was build like a brickhosue despite being the youngest player in that draft. Sure he was raw, but the upside was stupid and Williams was the cover for him. Jordan gonna Jordan. Then Cuban pissed away the 2017 draft in which we should have had the top odds. We take Tatum that year, Luka the next, we probably working on a three-peat by now.

---

That´s funny. Obviously not a Cuban idea.

That is funny.  I was saying the same during that draft.   Eventhough centers are diminished in value, I thought Duren was a top 10 pick and Williams wasn't that far behind.   I don't even believe Charlotte got a really good pick back for moving off the Duren pick.

---

Shams said earlier that Plumlee is out at least a few months for the Clippers. He mentioned that the Clippers had interest in Daniel Theis. Theis hasn't played this year for the Pacers but had a good showing for team Germany.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Williams is good, but he's coming off the bench for Nick Richards last I checked. Duren has more upside than both.

Williams has started every game this year.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Williams has started every game this year.

I stand corrected.

---

Giannis has 40 pts with 8 minutes to go in the 3rd qtr vs the Pacers.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

That is funny.  I was saying the same during that draft.   Eventhough centers are diminished in value, I thought Duren was a top 10 pick and Williams wasn't that far behind.   I don't even believe Charlotte got a really good pick back for moving off the Duren pick.

---

Shams said earlier that Plumlee is out at least a few months for the Clippers.  He mentioned that the Clippers had interest in Daniel Theis.  Theis hasn't played this  year for the Pacers but had a good showing for team Germany.

Theis is playing for the 1st time this season, tonight vs the Bucks. Showcasing maybe?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Giannis with 54 pts 5 minutes left in the 4th leading the Pacers 117-114. Good game.

[IamDougieFresh]

Big Rick is owed a massive apology I reckon. Usually got the most out of our terrible rosters. If you have been paying any attention to the Pacers you know that his youngsters are cooking. Mavs simply could not draft during his tenure.

[SwisherPrice]

Yeah RC won. Got away from this goofy owner obsessed with chasing superstars and I think he's pretty happy going from Luka to Haliburton

[dirkfansince1998]

Pacers have the best offense in the league. RC is a mastermind when it comes to the X's and O's but that shouldn't suprise anyone that watched the Mavs during his tenure. Would argue that the way modern NBA teams play on offense is largely based on his flow&motion concepts (he obviously took a lot of stuff from other coaches as well, especially D'Antoni).

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Watched the IND/MIL game. RC has Indy looking great. MIL looks broken. Middleton seemingly will never fully recover; he's lost his outside shot which usually means injured lower body. I don't think it can be overstated how much this team misses Jrue.

---

Pacers have the best offense in the league. RC is a mastermind when it comes to the X's and O's but that shouldn't suprise anyone that watched the Mavs during his tenure. Would argue that the way modern NBA teams play on offense is largely based on his flow&motion concepts (he obviously took a lot of stuff from other coaches as well, especially D'Antoni).

And his in-game adjustments are brilliant.  We go from a savant to just an idiot.

[DallasMaverick]

Y’all be extolling the virtues of Rick Carlisle.  How many of you were calling for his head on a platter a few years ago?

And on this game… a missed shot here, a made shot there, and you’d be praising Adrian Griffin instead.

Gotta take a longer view.

[KillerLeft]

Y’all be extolling the virtues of Rick Carlisle.  How many of you were calling for his head on a platter a few years ago?

And on this game… a missed shot here, a made shot there, and you’d be praising Adrian Griffin instead.

Gotta take a longer view.

Don’t have a problem with your overall point, but for the record, I defended the great Rick Carlisle to the bitter end, and will continue to do so until the day I die.

[Mavs2021]

Big Rick is owed a massive apology I reckon. Usually got the most out of our terrible rosters. If you have been paying any attention to the Pacers you know that his youngsters are cooking. Mavs simply could not draft during his tenure.

There is definitely an argument to be made that Carlisle was just a good soldier, playing the hand he was dealt and this was literally ALL on Cuban being a complete idiot.  The Pacers FO/owner simply constructed the roster in a smarter way than Cuban.

Although I think if given a choice, he´d still prefer a veteran roster. All the rookies the Pacers drafted were on the older ready side. If you gave him the current Mavs roster, I find it highly unlikely Lively starts by the 2nd half of the first game over Holmes/Powell/Kleber/Morris or that Hardy/Green see extended minutes before Curry/Exum.

What makes this so infuriating is that if Cuban tanked properly in 2017/2018, we could have gotten the top odds, the most experienced rookies at the top of the draft were Tatum and Doncic. We keep our 2019 pick and draft in the G. Williams, Thybulle range. We could have had our current roster + Tatum in 2019, but it was totally worth it for the three months of play-off missing winning culture that resulted in signing absolutely nobody in free agency and drafting DSJ. 

Cuban has too big an ego to admit he was wrong all along, but nobody is showing up to his leaking building, if he loses Luka, so he finally had to make some forced strategical changes now.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Y’all be extolling the virtues of Rick Carlisle.  How many of you were calling for his head on a platter a few years ago?

And on this game… a missed shot here, a made shot there, and you’d be praising Adrian Griffin instead.

Gotta take a longer view.

Good point.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Yeah RC won. Got away from this goofy owner obsessed with chasing superstars and I think he's pretty happy going from Luka to Haliburton

I also think him and Luka didn't always see eye to eye. Is it true Luka would sometimes go against what Rick wanted, like changing play calls and such?  I think Rick as talented as he is , eventually got annoyed with coaching him and wanted out.

[omahen]

I also think him and Luka didn't always see eye to eye. Is it true Luka would sometimes go against what Rick wanted, like changing play calls and such?  I think Rick as talented as he is , eventually got annoyed with coaching him and wanted out.

Nah. I think Rick was smart enough to recognize his days with Mavs are over and he left on his own terms. Mavs were also preparing for a change and were happy with the outcome. Remember all the "Rick is an asshole" stuff and many takes how (allegedly) players didn't want to come to Dallas because of him. I remember some active players made that claim. 

Don't get me wrong. I respect Carlisle as a coach, I think he is a very good one. I also always appreciated that he publicly never threw players under the bus after losses, unlike some other coach we know. Publicly, he always took the blame. I am sure they had all kinds of different conversations behind closed doors, but this is imho how things should be handled. 

From what was reported, the problem between Luka and Carlisle was exclusively in personal relationship. Two things were reported - Luka didn't appreciate how he treated some of his teammates (Mejri was mentioned) and that "the gambler" interfered with coaching decisions. I am sure Carlisle could say a thing or two about Luka, but we don't know if some of Lukas reactions were just a consequence of the things that (really) bothered him and had little to do with actual coaching. All of that doesn't mean Carlisle is a bad coach or Luka is uncoachable.  It takes two to argue and sometimes some people just don't fit on a personal level. Best solution going forward was "a divorce". Divorces can be messy (see Donnie), but this one was handled pretty solid, imho.

[khaled1987]

 Best solution going forward was "a divorce". Divorces can be messy (see Donnie), but this one was handled pretty solid, imho.

I actually think Donnie was a part of the reason Rick left tbh. He was the one he worked with him for 13 years and they probably understand each other. 
Donnie was actually decent GM imo, but he was a bit outdated,  undermined and needed a fresh voice. 
Rick knew that a new GM usually means lack of support for him in the team, as most directors will want to hire "their guy" rather than being stuck with the old one.
He knew what is coming, owner wants a change, franchise’s player isn't connected to him, a new decision makers, and above all there was a mess in past years that there was no guarantee that it wasn't going to be repeated with new faces.
He spared everyone the trouble and moved on, to a project he knows and whom he will have control over.
Pacers are good, and if they even reach a conference final within next few years it will be considered a success for him considering lack of true super star there

[surfpuckmd]

Watched the IND/MIL game.  RC has Indy looking great.  MIL looks broken.  Middleton seemingly will never fully recover; he's lost his outside shot which usually means injured lower body.  I don't think it can be overstated how much this team misses Jrue.

---

And his in-game adjustments are brilliant.  We go from a savant to just an idiot.

We went from a top-5 coach to a bottom-5 coach.  Only Mark Cuban could put lipstick on that pig of downgrade.

I'd love to see what RC would do with Luka and Kyrie on the floor together.  That should be a really easy puzzle for an NBA coach to solve and would make for an unstoppable offense.  Unfortunately, Kidd hasn't been able to fit those two pieces together very well.   

Carlisle left because Cuban made him uncomfortable with job security and had an analytics guy stepping on his toes.  Carlisle made a smart decision and Cuban countered with a stupid replacement.  We may win a lot of games this season but that will be because of the brilliance of Luka and Kyrie.  If we win less than 45 games this season, we should hopefully have a new coach next season.  It would be difficult to find a downgrade from Jason Kidd.

[SleepingHero]

Don’t have a problem with your overall point, but for the record, I defended the great Rick Carlisle to the bitter end, and will continue to do so until the day I die.

At the end of the day the problem with Rick is that he is an asshole who grates on his locker room so much that eventually they tune him out (or worse they give up completely). 

It's happened at every single stop. There is no arguing against Carlisle's X's and O's. He probably has a good case to be top 10 all time in that regard. But there is more to coaching than just a game plan and I don't think it's a coincidence that Kidd has taken this team further than Carlisle had since 2011. 

I also highly HIGHLY doubt Carlisle would be able to manage Kyrie.

Also RC hasn't been a top 5 coach for years now.
1. Spolestra
2. Kerr
3. Mike Malone
4. Ty Lue
5. Pop
Are all pretty clearly ahead of him. Then you got guys like Nick Nurse, Taylor Jenkins, and even Mark Daignault.

[SleepingHero]

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
Miami Heat guard Tyler Herro will miss several weeks after being diagnosed with a Grade 2 ankle sprain, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. He will be in a walking boot for 10 days and be re-evaluated in two weeks.

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
Brooklyn Nets guard Cam Thomas is expected to miss two weeks with a left ankle sprain, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The 22-year-old has averaged 26.9 points and 3.8 rebounds over eight games this season.

[surfpuckmd]

At the end of the day the problem with Rick is that he is an asshole who grates on his locker room so much that eventually they tune him out (or worse they give up completely). 

It's happened at every single stop. There is no arguing against Carlisle's X's and O's. He probably has a good case to be top 10 all time in that regard. But there is more to coaching than just a game plan and I don't think it's a coincidence that Kidd has taken this team further than Carlisle had since 2011. 

I also highly HIGHLY doubt Carlisle would be able to manage Kyrie.

Also RC hasn't been a top 5 coach for years now.
1. Spolestra
2. Kerr
3. Mike Malone
4. Ty Lue
5. Pop
Are all pretty clearly ahead of him. Then you got guys like Nick Nurse, Taylor Jenkins, and even Mark Daignault.

RC is a better coach than Mike Malone and Ty Lue.  Carlisle has overachieved with three different franchises.  He's proven much more than either Ty Lue and Malone.  Malone has won with the league's greatest player and maybe the league's best starting five.  Ty Lue has frankly underachieved with the Clipper's roster (lots of injuries contributed)  I'm also not really sure how great Steve Kerr is.  I think he's a good coach but he's also had one of the greatest rosters of the 21st century during his tenure.  They've had a massive advantage due to their ownership's willingness to spend without limit.  Carlisle has won with some really subpar rosters at four different stops.

The young coaches you mention all seem like really talented coaches.  They haven't proven enough though to make a top-5 list.  I think Udoka also should be on that list of great young coaches as well.   

RC might be an asshole but there is not a better word to describe Jason Kidd than asshole.  The difference is RC is also a good coach.  Kidd is not.