TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[mvossman]

LA is offering both firsts for Kyrie, but the Nets need players.  In the past it was never realistic to send out our long term junk for Westbrook.  We were not offering player value for LA to want to take on the long term salary.  But this is a different situation.  A couple of ideas:

Dallas sends Dinwiddie + Timmy + McGee and gets Russ + LA First
Nets send Irving and get Dinwiddie + Timmy + LA first
LA sends Russ + 2 firsts and gets Irving + McGee

or

Dallas sends Dinwiddie + Dorian + McGee and gets Russ + 2 LA Firsts
Nets send Irving and get Dinwiddie + Dorian
LA sends Russ + 2 firsts and gets Irving + McGee


In either case, the Mavs can max extend Wood, sign everybody else, let Russ walk, spend the full MLE and still be under the tax.  They will have Bertans and Bullock as expiring contracts plus all of their picks plus the LA pick(s) to make moves with.

[Chicagojk]

After thinking about it....

My offer would be SD and Bullock.  I think that is a fair offer that could get Brooklyn close to their current team.

I am not a fan of Kyrie.  It is very seldom just about basketball.   

This Mavs team has been so disappointing though, that I think i would gamble.   I would be giving up two players who I don't think are in our long term future.

I don't offer Green, DFS or firsts.

I don't think this is the best offer and therefore probably won't happen.

I fully expect him staying in Brooklyn, the Lakers, and the Heat to be the favorites.   I have no idea what the Heat can offer but I have learned to never count them out.

I expect the Lakers to shop those two lottery picks and Westbrook.  Hollinger brought up Toronto to the Lakers for Van Fleet and Gary Trent.  Would Brooklyn want these two instead?   Maybe Toronto could hold out for a few of their youngsters in Max Christie, Cam Thomas or Austin Reeves.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

I don't offer Green, DFS or firsts.

I'd make a step further.
I absolutely wouldn't even consider including Green even if Kyrie comes with a first.
Trading Green for a rental and a first sets the Mavs back.
I'd only trade Wood if he has made up his mind on leaving. 
I wouldn't include Hardy too. I'm not a big Hardy fan, but still no.
They can't take Maxi too -- again Kyrie's a rental, and even if he wants to re-sign, it's still a NO for me. The Mavs can trade Maxi and still get a first without Kyrie.
Same goes for DFS.

Basically the Nets can have anyone other than Luka, Green, Wood, Maxi, DFS and Hardy.

---

BKN interest in our core players (I won't include Green here, I'd be hesitant to involve him):

I'd flat out refuse the trade if Green is included.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-n...azz-trade/









Good read.

[Kammrath]

Dallas sends Dinwiddie + Timmy + McGee and gets Russ + LA First
Nets send Irving and get Dinwiddie + Timmy + LA first
LA sends Russ + 2 firsts and gets Irving + McGee

or

Dallas sends Dinwiddie + Dorian + McGee and gets Russ + 2 LA Firsts
Nets send Irving and get Dinwiddie + Dorian
LA sends Russ + 2 firsts and gets Irving + McGee

Give me either one.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I'd make a step further.
I absolutely wouldn't even consider including Green even if Kyrie comes with a first.
Trading Green for a rental and a first sets the Mavs back.
I'd only trade Wood if he has made up his mind on leaving. 
I wouldn't include Hardy too. I'm not a big Hardy fan, but still no.
They can't take Maxi too -- again Kyrie's a rental, and even if he wants to re-sign, it's still a NO for me. The Mavs can trade Maxi and still get a first without Kyrie.
Same goes for DFS.

Basically the Nets can have anyone other than Luka, Green, Wood, Maxi, DFS and Hardy.

---

I'd flat out refuse the trade if Green is included.

Doesn't mean Cuban won't.   

[Kammrath]

Hey @"KillerLeft" it is apparently KIDD who wants Kyrie. 

Do you believe me yet that 1) he is the defacto GM right now and 2) he sucks beyond all belief at it???

https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/statu...6942314504

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

LOL.

Maybe Kidd doesn't really know how to coach.
Or at least, doesn't want to.

Be prepared for Luka and Kyrie ISOs alternating all game long.
In the long run, this pairing will not only waste another year of Luka's (Mav) window, but could influence Luka with bad habits.

I'm okay with a rental for as long as the guys going out would be the likes of THJ, RB, SD, Bertans and McGee.

BUT.. re-signing Kyrie would be a monumental mistake.
Mav fans would be calling for Kidd's head come next season, if the Mavs were able to re-sign Kyrie that would mean the Mavs would have 2 guys to get rid off eventually.

[Kammrath]

Mavs get the western conference finals last year. 

Kidd: "We just need Javale McGee and Kyrie Irving to get over the hump."

[F Gump]

Hey @"KillerLeft" it is apparently KIDD who wants Kyrie. 

Do you believe me yet that 1) he is the defacto GM right now and 2) he sucks beyond all belief at it???

Cuban the GM is the one who makes the Mavs roster-building decisions. It's likely he continues to derive his input from a variety of sources, some better than others, as he has in the past. That's on Cuban for not hiring and enabling an expert to do the job.

Kidd having an opinion should come as no surprise. But that doesn't make him the GM or the one in charge of roster-building.

Kidd's bad opinions should be ignored, and they would be, if the Cuban the GM had a talent expert in the job. Kidd's previous opinions have been fairly sucky, so the fact Cuban wants even more of that "outside the box" process? Umm, it's not Kidd's fault (or job).

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/162...0075551751

[F Gump]

Michael Scotto:

Spencer Dinwiddie, Theo Pinson, and Mavericks front office members Matt Riccardi and Andrew Baker spent time with Irving in Brooklyn and know the baggage he brought during their tenures with the Nets.

While Dallas has been connected to Irving once again in trade talks, league sources with knowledge of the Mavericks’ thinking downplayed the team’s chances of landing Irving in a trade.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Spencer knows him fairly well.  Here is how it started:

https://www.netsdaily.com/2019/7/17/2069...-next-year

[ThisIStheYear]

I'd make a step further.
I absolutely wouldn't even consider including Green even if Kyrie comes with a first.
Trading Green for a rental and a first sets the Mavs back.
I'd only trade Wood if he has made up his mind on leaving. 
I wouldn't include Hardy too. I'm not a big Hardy fan, but still no.
They can't take Maxi too -- again Kyrie's a rental, and even if he wants to re-sign, it's still a NO for me. The Mavs can trade Maxi and still get a first without Kyrie.
Same goes for DFS.

Basically the Nets can have anyone other than Luka, Green, Wood, Maxi, DFS and Hardy.

---

I see both sides of this discussion and the risks involved, but am more in the “anyone other than Luka or Green, and if you want DFS, you’ll have to send back another pretty good asset” camp.  I’m not sure Maxi is even tradable yet, but I expect the rest of his career arc to mostly be injuries and would love to get out of that contract.  It seems the Mavs have decided that Wood is expendable (I disagree). He’ll bring back little value as a rental coming off an injury, so using him to round out a Kyrie trade is probably better than next to nothing as ROI.  But the Nets aren’t going to want him anyways, so kind of an academic idea.  I’d be reluctant to give up Hardy too, but his play at the NBA level has been one of the bigger disappointments of the season. I thought he’d develop a little faster but would still like to keep him longer to see if he can figure out how to take a shot inside the paint against NBA bigs without getting it blocked. As for DFS, it’s not that I wouldn’t trade him.  He’s going to age fast as an undersized 4.  But, even though Kyrie is a significant upgrade over Spencer defensively, he’s not really good on that side of the floor.  DFS would be an excellent fit with Green to balance out Luka and Kyrie in a core 5. 

If the Mavs do trade for Kyrie, which I’m not against obviously, it has to be contingent on an extension. I’m no longer interested in any rentals for this season. My preference for a trade is still one where the Mavs just reset the team by sending out assets in order to dump salary.  They need a clean slate to figure out how to build around Luka, Green and . . .well Luka and Green. Everyone else can go. But if you’re going to try and make this current mess work, might as well  bring in an uber don’t give an f talent who, as much as anyone, was responsible for bringing an NBA title to Cleveland. Maybe he could become the Mavs version of Dennis Rodman, but with efficient volume scoring instead of rebounding.

[Mavs32]

this is what i would try to get done. 

Kyrie and Bertans to LA
Wood and THJ to Brooklyn
RW and an unprotected Laker first to Dallas

Nets aren't getting a haul for Kyrie and this allows them to boost their front court while evaluating Wood for a possible extension.  THJ gives them shooting and someone who is reliably healthy (as opposed to Curry and Mills)

Lakers have to give up a first just to move RW anyway so this gets them Kyrie, dumps RW's contract and the only extra price is taking back Bertans money but they need shooting off the bench anyway.

For the Mavs this clears the books and adds a high quality first.  in the summer you let RW go and have almost max room and the ability to trade 4 firsts for someone like Siakam.  Meanwhile you give RW the keys to the bench mob and let him play 6th man like he has in LA. 

giving up assets for Kyrie is foolish and the Mavs are not poised to win the title this year so at least set yourself up for a big summer.

[Mavs2021]

Michael Scotto:

Spencer Dinwiddie, Theo Pinson, and Mavericks front office members Matt Riccardi and Andrew Baker spent time with Irving in Brooklyn and know the baggage he brought during their tenures with the Nets.

While Dallas has been connected to Irving once again in trade talks, league sources with knowledge of the Mavericks’ thinking downplayed the team’s chances of landing Irving in a trade.

Spencer doesn´t have to worry at all. If the Mavs are involved in this trade he´s in Brooklyn and Irving is not.

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-n...azz-trade/

Good read.

Thanks, it really was a good read.  I thought the Jazz/Knicks stuff was really interesting.  I didn't know Gersson Rosas was involved with the Knicks.  Must have been satisfying to stick it to Mark.

Hard to see the Knicks wanting another non-shooter on the roster in Vanderbilt.  Utah getting Toppin would give them a really scary front court for years to come.

[Guwop]

GO GET IRVING NIKO THIS TEAM IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND WE DONT HAVE OUR PICK NEXT DRAFT WOULDN’T BE THAT HIGH OF A PICK ANYWAYS. 

DINWIDDY + BERTANS or DINWIDDY + THJ for KYRIE 


NO WAY DO I GIVE DINWIDDY AND DFS UP FOR KYRIE RENTAL THAT IS TOO MUCH. IF THEIR WILLING TO TAKE BACK BERTANS OR THJR YOU MAKE THAT TRADE YESTERDAY 

KYRIE
LUKA
BULLOCK - GREEN
DFS - MAXI
WOOD - POWELL

[Mavs2021]

this is what i would try to get done. 

Kyrie and Bertans to LA
Wood and THJ to Brooklyn
RW and an unprotected Laker first to Dallas

Nets aren't getting a haul for Kyrie and this allows them to boost their front court while evaluating Wood for a possible extension.  THJ gives them shooting and someone who is reliably healthy (as opposed to Curry and Mills)

Lakers have to give up a first just to move RW anyway so this gets them Kyrie, dumps RW's contract and the only extra price is taking back Bertans money but they need shooting off the bench anyway.

For the Mavs this clears the books and adds a high quality first.  in the summer you let RW go and have almost max room and the ability to trade 4 firsts for someone like Siakam.  Meanwhile you give RW the keys to the bench mob and let him play 6th man like he has in LA. 

giving up assets for Kyrie is foolish and the Mavs are not poised to win the title this year so at least set yourself up for a big summer.

And here are some underrated parts about this whole proposal.

1. Westbrook is a true professional from a fitness level. One of the hardest working players. He´s a well-liked respected leader amongst his peers. You want somebody to show Luka how to lead a team, he has value. If we are honest, nobody can show Luka anything on the floor. It´s the off the floor stuff. 

2. Furthermore we have seen what a ruined reputation does to a player´s value in this league. Westbrook will turn 35 in November. He´s not getting MLE+ level offers from rebuilding teams. Most contending teams won´t be able to offer him more than the MLE. So everything goes well, the Mavs might be able to get Westbrook for something like 30/2 or even the MLE.

3. Dirk just shows him, where to put his hands on the ball, and he becomes a late-career 40% 3pt shooter like Kidd.

Okay, maybe the last one doesn´t happen.  

Look it´s by no means the main motivation to do such a deal, but there are legit add-on arguments in favour of a Westbrook trade. And if not, he´s just a huge expiring.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1...2029877258