2019-2020 Mavs Trade Discussion + Salary Chart

[dirkfansince1998]

I brought up multiple advanced stats but you continue to focus on RPM. Okay ignore DRPM. What about his steal and block totals? What about his on/off numbers?
What is your case? Why isn´t RoCo as good as the defensive numbers suggest?

Because you won´t make the case against RoCo I might as well do it myself. Any case against RoCo as an elite defender starts with his onball defense. It´s good but not special. He certainly isn´t a one vs one lockdown defender.

That´s a conversation we can have. Especially when it comes to fit on the Mavs. Personally I think that great team/help defense is more important than good man defense but the Mavs obviously need someone to cover the best opposing player. There are a lot of players that can do a better job against the Lillards or Hardens of the league. Some of them probably cheaper and younger.

"All those "advanced defensive statistics" are flawed." D-PIPM, plus/minus, on/off, DRPM etc. all of them. There are countless examples. 

Towns, who you believe is a trash defender, has great on/off and +/- numbers. You point to his DRPM solidifying his poor defense. Some stats says he is good, some say are bad. The eye test fluctuates depending on who you ask.

D-PIPM rates DeAndre Jordan as the 7th best defender in the league this season. Cauley-Stein is ranked 9th. Powell has a better D-PIPM than Porzingis this season.

Avery Bradley is 2x All-Defense with multiple DPOY votes yet his on/off, +/-, and DRPM aren't quite stellar. Klay Thompson is considered an elite defender yet his advanced numbers aren't quite stellar either. Which is it?

That is the main point I am driving home. These "advanced defensive statistics" or media accolades make some guys look a lot better than they really are or a lot worse than they are. Is Covington as elite as they say? Is he really a DPOY worthy player that puts him in Draymond's, Kawhi's, Gobert's tier? Is he worth forking over all these assets?

I already explained why his defensive numbers aren't as great as they suggest and you told me to "go watch some tape." I've watched enough of RoCo to draw my own opinions that he is not an elite defender, nothing special. But that is apparently a crazy take. And yes his on-ball defense is why I feel that way.

But your preference is offball, help defense. That is fine but I respectfully disagree to an extent. My belief is that we need better individual defenders to slow down the top scorers in the league. Good teams won't turn over the ball often. There is more 1-on-1 defense in the playoffs. 

But this is all rather meaningless because Covington won't be a Maverick. And I'll apologize if I offended any body with the groupies comment. The way y'all were talking about him, I thought he was an actual rockstar legend a la Mick Jagger. My bad. Ok that is my last joke. Please, mods don't ban me!!! Nothing but peace and love from me!!

See...that´s what I wanted. A more thoughtful conversation. I agree that a lot of the advanced defensive metrics are questionable (especially DRPM with an unknown formula) but my point was that no matter the metric RoCo always comes out on top. He has the boxscore numbers to impact stats like DBPM and the +/- numbers to impact stats like RPM and RAPM.

I don´t think raw on/off data is flawed. Just needs some context (lineups/rotations/matchups). Towns solid +/- numbers are easily explained by his great offense. The Timberwolves ranked 2nd in defensive rating without him (15 games). Since his return they are a bottom ten defense. He obviously does not look as bad in boxscore metrics like DBPM and his shot contest tracking suggests that he is doing a good job around the rim. Same is true for Deandre or WCS. Solid shot contest data combined with rebounding.

One of the reasons why I prefer good team defenders over good man defenders is actually that in most cases the team defender looks better in +/- metrics. Would add that in the modern switch heavy league the value of individual defense isn´t as big as it used to be. Teams will simply run screens to get the prefered matchup.  Great team defenders (obviously combined with a good defensive scheme) and versatile wings are the best option against switches.
I think in the last few years (3-5) Draymond, RoCo and Smart were the best non big team and help defenders in the league. That´s why I have a high opinion of them and most if not all stats seem to agree with me.

I think onball defenders like Bradley or Thompson actually get punished by some metrics because they defend the best opposing scorer most of the time. It certainly influences their raw on/off and +/- data and has an impact on their shot contest data.

Other players like Kawhi or even LeBron can be among the best defenders in the league if they really try but in most games they aren´t going all out. Kawhi actually is looking better than he did last year but when he was with the Raptors he did not look like a DPOY.