THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green

[Dundalis]

I feel y'all are missing the fact that Green USED to be listed exactly at 6'5 on the NBA website until yesterday, when that height was changed and is now 6'7. I put the link of what the NBA website looked like on July 2nd 2022 and it said he was 6'5. 

NBA has gotten stricter on reporting players heights 3 years ago. I have no doubts Green coming into the league was 6'4 (or 6'5) without shoes, and thats exactly what was listed on his NBA profile just last year.

But its now changed. Today its 6'7. Whether or not that is really the case remains to be seen (it could be a mistake for all we know) but if Green did hit a growth spurt and is now 6'7 its a radical game changer.

We saw him on the court like 4 months ago. And IMO he barely looked any taller than Hardy when they were on the court together. He ain't taller than 6'5 and he ain't growing 2 inches in the space of 4 months at 22 years old.

[SleepingHero]

We saw him on the court like 4 months ago. And IMO he barely looked any taller than Hardy when they were on the court together. He ain't taller than 6'5 and he ain't growing 2 inches in the space of 4 months at 22 years old.

T W O I N C H E S 

We're gonna see supersized Josh coming to a screen to you this fall.

(read this post in jest).

[fifteenth]

Can Josh help heal my DFS sadness this year?

[KillerLeft]

Can Josh help heal my DFS sadness this year?

Omax, pal. Omax.

[fifteenth]

Omax, pal. Omax.

Is that an over the counter item? Wallgreens?

[KillerLeft]

Is that an over the counter item? Wallgreens?

You’ll see. You’ll love it.

[fifteenth]

You’ll see. You’ll love it.

Oh, plant based, not from Walgreens. Gotcha. 

I may be strange, my good pal, but I prefer to go ahead and feel my pain. Even if the DFS pain is pretty rough. But I do appreciate that you care for me enough to offer some help!!! 

I know you and I where both hit pretty hard by that one.

[fifteenth]

Oh wait, @KillerLeft....

That's a draft pick. I've been so off the Mavs grid that I didn't know.

Gotcha. I'll give Omax a shot. If you like him, I'm sure I will too.

[KillerLeft]

Oh wait, @KillerLeft....

That's a draft pick. I've been so off the Mavs grid that I didn't know.

Gotcha. I'll give Omax a shot. If you like him, I'm sure I will too.

He plays in Vegas soon, pal. You’ll love him.

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLXBBjZGntI&t=9s

[MFFL]

I would love to see the Mavs sign him to a Grant Williams type deal. But if he wants a much bigger payday than that - I'm open to trading him.

[Chicagojk]

It will be mildly surprising if Green does not start the season starting. But the reports thybulle would have been a starter if not matched and now the OMAx starting in preseason. OMAx is probably just a intriguing test fun for the future. But I just wonder if Kidd thinks he best role is not as a starter but a moderate to high energy guy off the bench with Green? Not sure why not give Green as much minutes and confidence as a starter in camp if he thought different.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Green is a connector.
It's in his nature.

IMHO, Green's progress depends on Kidd.
If Kidd does not design plays for him, he'd get lost on the Luka-Kyrie show.
Josh looks like a capable option on offense, and I'd trust him to score more efficiently than GW and of course THJ.
But if Kidd doesn't establish Green as option 3 or 4 in offense, I'm going to bet he'd just hover around 10 points per game for the season.
Not really bad, considering he helps in other ways -- but it's like firing just 2 bullets off your side pistol and using your knife the rest of the way.

[mvossman]

Green is a connector.
It's in his nature.

IMHO, Green's progress depends on Kidd.
If Kidd does not design plays for him, he'd get lost on the Luka-Kyrie show.
Josh looks like a capable option on offense, and I'd trust him to score more efficiently than GW and of course THJ.
But if Kidd doesn't establish Green as option 3 or 4 in offense, I'm going to bet he'd just hover around 10 points per game for the season.
Not really bad, considering he helps in other ways -- but it's like firing just 2 bullets off your side pistol and using your knife the rest of the way.

I'm not sure Green will be any more efficient than Williams.  They seem very similar in that regard.  I think Green probably spiked a little bet this last season.  I would take the under on his TS next season compared to last.  

Grant and Green may be more efficient than Timmy, but Timmy is still more valuable offensively because he pulls the trigger.  Focusing just on the three, its much more valuable to have a player pull the trigger (Tim is roughly 12 3 attempts per 100 pos) and shoot high 30s than it is for a player to shoot less often (Josh is 5.5 and Grant is 7) and a little higher efficiency (40 percent).

I don't know that Green needs offense run through him, he just needs to pull the trigger when its there.

[Chicagojk]

I am a Josh Fan, I really want him to do well. I will be pretty surprised if he is being offered more than the MLE (maybe a mil or two over) at this point by the team.

I mentioned earlier how the team may view him as a high minute energy player off the bench. The failed signing of Thybulle, Bruce Brown, & Dillon Brooks may be support of that view as all would have been starters (imo thybulle starting over green is very debatable, but that is what was reported). While starting Holiday last year made no sense, maybe it was more about putting Green in a role they thought was better suited for him?

[IamDougieFresh]

I'm not sure Green will be any more efficient than Williams.  They seem very similar in that regard.  I think Green probably spiked a little bet this last season.  I would take the under on his TS next season compared to last.  

Grant and Green may be more efficient than Timmy, but Timmy is still more valuable offensively because he pulls the trigger.  Focusing just on the three, its much more valuable to have a player pull the trigger (Tim is roughly 12 3 attempts per 100 pos) and shoot high 30s than it is for a player to shoot less often (Josh is 5.5 and Grant is 7) and a little higher efficiency (40 percent).

I don't know that Green needs offense run through him, he just needs to pull the trigger when its there.

His highlights from last season agree with you. A lot of passing up open 3s to go for more difficult acrobatic layups. I’m high on Josh because it’s an easy fix. He has to shoot the open and wide open shots every time. Period.

[F Gump]

If Kidd does not design plays for him, he'd get lost on the Luka-Kyrie show.

"Design plays"? How would this work? 

It seems to me that the Mavs offense is all reactive and audibles (so to speak), with the defense deciding what they will do, Luka/Kyrie responding by figuring out who/how to attack and then reading who is open (or taking the shot themself), rather than a coach pre-determining who will get shots.

What am I missing?

[dirkfansince1998]

"Design plays"? How would this work? 

It seems to me that the Mavs offense is all reactive and audibles (so to speak), with the defense deciding what they will do, Luka/Kyrie responding by figuring out who/how to attack and then reading who is open (or taking the shot themself), rather than a coach pre-determining who will get shots.

What am I missing?

Not a play call but over the last few seasons the Mavs flow/motion offense slowly lost most of the motion elements. Players that aren't handling the ball or screening are camping on the 3-point line. In Green's case cutting to the rim is one of his biggest strengths. Not exactly something that can be called upon with a specific play but it feels like the Mavs could use more of it.

[SwisherPrice]

Prediction: the Mavs (Kidd) will treat Green as this year's Christian Wood to try to tank his value.

As a fan of his from when he was drafted, I actually want him to go elsewhere so he can try to succeed on a different team with a bigger role. I don't think this team and system is the best use of his abilities, even though he could adapt and be useful in any role. But if you're not one of the lead guards or THJ, you're just supposed to spot up and wait for threes. I'd love to see Green actually get the ball and have screens set for him to do something off the dribble but when you're just standing in the corner in this offense, you won't be able to do much.

The wings or whatever you want to call them are just supposed to provide 3 and D. Just look at how low Green's usage rate was last season - the only players lower down there at the bottom were Bullock, DFS, Holiday, Pinson, Ntilikina - all had similar roles as Green in this offense whenever they were on the floor with the lead guards.




If you're willing to pay him a solid contract in the future then unleash him! Don't just waste his abilities by being another version of Bullock

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

"Design plays"? How would this work? 

It seems to me that the Mavs offense is all reactive and audibles (so to speak), with the defense deciding what they will do, Luka/Kyrie responding by figuring out who/how to attack and then reading who is open (or taking the shot themself), rather than a coach pre-determining who will get shots.

What am I missing?

I'm not talking about ISOs from the top of the key, or from the wings. Josh has shown he can go for straight line drives, but I'm not advocating ISOs for him. 

One poster here mentioned it. The cuts to the basket is one of Josh's strengths. The Mavs of last season looks like they moved away from it. That took away scoring opportunities from Josh and Dorian.

I remember back door cuts for Green was a thing. It's not often executed but, the Mavs did it every once in a while. Same goes for Dennis Smith and For Roddy B. I don't have the numbers to show, but from what I've seen there were so much less of those lob plays from the Mavs last season than previous seasons. The emphasis for lobs were for the bigs and not much for the athletic guards.

Regarding the "reactive" offense -- Luka and Kyrie can be masters taking reads, and pre-determining a shot might not be the best thing if you have such talented decision makers. But would it hurt the team if the coach tells his PGs. -- " I see Josh has a slower/smaller player on him who's incapable of guarding him, maybe you guys can throw him a lob or two at some point. We got plays for these type of scenarios."

That's a pre-determined shot taker, and you need an actual play called for it, or else it doesn't happen.