Pelicans send out season ticket renewal with NO mention of Zion

[cow]

For comparison, when Shaq entered the league at 301 lbs he was just under the obese mark.

Tried to find pictures around his rookie year.  I don't think BMI is a great measuring stick.

[Hypermav]

I was a little envious that NOP lucked in to such a talent, but thought their small-market team deserved something positive after the AD departure. Now he's starting to look more like an albatross than a pelican.

I was very envious.  Even if Zion wants to leave, the Pelicans are sitting on a pot of asset gold.  Some team will pay full price for him.

[ItsGoTime]

Tried to find pictures around his rookie year.  I don't think BMI is a great measuring stick.

This was kinda my point. I knew Shaq looked like that coming into the league. Zion was close to the same (I think Zion had a bit more heft to him that Shaq and could have afforded to lose some of his fat, but not 30 lbs worth that would have put him close to Shaq’s BMI rate). This was an exercise in debunking the overweight/obese labels. It’s different for all body types which there are millions of.


If Zion’s best playing weight is 284 though and he now weighs 330, that is a pretty big difference. If Luka’s best playing weight is 230 and he came in at 260, that is also a pretty big difference esp considering the short period of time it took him to get there.

[cow]

This was kinda my point. I knew Shaq looked like that coming into the league. Zion was close to the same (I think Zion had a bit more heft to him that Shaq and could have afforded to lose some of his fat, but not 30 lbs worth that would have put him close to Shaq’s BMI rate). This was an exercise in debunking the overweight/obese labels. It’s different for all body types which there are millions of.


If Zion’s best playing weight is 284 though and he now weighs 330, that is a pretty big difference. If Luka’s best playing weight is 230 and he came in at 260, that is also a pretty big difference esp considering the short period of time it took him to get there.

We are on the same wave length, just reinforcing your thoughts with photos of what BMI considers near obese.

[dirkfansince1998]

If Zion’s best playing weight is 284 though and he now weighs 330, that is a pretty big difference. If Luka’s best playing weight is 230 and he came in at 260, that is also a pretty big difference esp considering the short period of time it took him to get there.

Weight matters but it is more about the overall fitness. Stamina, strength, quickness. I don´t think Luka would be worse if he added 10-20lbs of muscle over the next couple of seasons. Would argue that LeBron peaked in Miami. At his heaviest. He was still listed at 250 but most experts and even his teammates mentioned that he was in the 280-290 range. Problem was that it took a toll on his body. When he joined the Cavs he looked closer to his pre Miami self. Even mentioned that he changed his workout. Trying to increase his durability and reducing the load on his joints.

There is a sweet spot. Luka just needs to find it. Maybe it is closer to the mentioned 230. Maybe a little bit more weight is actually an advantage as long as it isn´t impacting his quickness/cardio.
I think Zion was pretty close to his ideal basketball weight when he was in college but it looks like he is struggling to stay in the 280 range. Weight problems started when he joined the Pelicans.

[ItsGoTime]

BTW, I joined in the "fat Luka" talk more as a joke. There's never a world where a top playing NBA athlete can ever be considered "fat". Compared to someone like LeBron? Sure. Compared to us? Never in a million years!

[SleepingHero]

There's never a world where a top playing NBA athlete can ever be considered "fat". Compared to someone like LeBron? Sure. Compared to us? Never in a million years!

Speak for yourself! Here's a gif of me dunking a couple of years ago.

[michaeltex]

We are on the same wave length, just reinforcing your thoughts with photos of what BMI considers near obese.

FWIW, BMI makes some assumptions about muscle:fat ratio. It's probably OK for most of us civilians, but an athlete with higher muscle ratio will score worse that they really are. I remember a story about Emmit Smith measuring as overweight on BMI, but it was due to extremely low body fat. 

Skinny KP is probably right in the "good" zone on BMI.

[dirkfansince1998]

There's never a world where a top playing NBA athlete can ever be considered "fat".

[ItsGoTime]

I actually deleted a sentence in my original post saying "Oliver Miller was not top playing" or something like that in parenthesis.

[ItsGoTime]

FWIW, BMI makes some assumptions about muscle:fat ratio. It's probably OK for most of us civilians, but an athlete with higher muscle ratio will score worse that they really are. I remember a story about Emmit Smith measuring as overweight on BMI, but it was due to extremely low body fat. 

Skinny KP is probably right in the "good" zone on BMI.

Again, same as Zion, this isn't an athlete scale who should carry more muscle than the "normal" human.

More words, same thought, I try to cover myself as much as possible in my wording. Although this wording assumes people know muscle weighs more than fat.

Also want to point out that I remember Kamm saying he wanted Luka to transfer his fat to muscle and not necessarily lose or gain weight. I agree with this thought very much. At 230 he is still able to bang around with some of the big guys he regularly goes against.

[michaeltex]

Miller was a pretty good talent. Always a bulky 6'9" pivot man, he played well for Arkansas' championship team and looked interesting coming into the NBA. Problem was he had long arms and couldn't sit far enough back from the table to manage his weight.

[ItsGoTime]

Miller was a pretty good talent. Always a bulky 6'9" pivot man, he played well for Arkansas' championship team and looked interesting coming into the NBA. Problem was he had long arms and couldn't sit far enough back from the table to manage his weight.

I remember watching him in college and thinking he'd be a menace on the league if he figured that out. Turned out he couldn't figure it out and we'll never know.

[Mavs2021]

Maybe he is like Darko and just hates basketball. Playing hard for 12 months willl be neough to make those 150M dollars.

I´d ask for Rose, Grimes, Randle, Robinson and three first round picks and be done with it.

Rose/Graham
McCollum/Grimes
Ingram/Snell
Randle/Nance
Valanciunas/Robinson

Not sure they can stop anybody, maybe if you mix and match it better with the bench, which should be solid defensively. That´s a 10 deep team. That is for sure. Add all the picks from the Lakers, Bucks and the Knicks. If you do this right, you can easily package that all for a legit star player. It really would be a waste of time to continue with Zion. Maybe he´ll come good in New York, but it´s obvious he won´t in New Orleans.

[Dirknows]

Weight matters but it is more about the overall fitness. Stamina, strength, quickness. I don´t think Luka would be worse if he added 10-20lbs of muscle over the next couple of seasons. Would argue that LeBron peaked in Miami. At his heaviest. He was still listed at 250 but most experts and even his teammates mentioned that he was in the 280-290 range. Problem was that it took a toll on his body. When he joined the Cavs he looked closer to his pre Miami self. Even mentioned that he changed his workout. Trying to increase his durability and reducing the load on his joints.

There is a sweet spot. Luka just needs to find it. Maybe it is closer to the mentioned 230. Maybe a little bit more weight is actually an advantage as long as it isn´t impacting his quickness/cardio.
I think Zion was pretty close to his ideal basketball weight when he was in college but it looks like he is struggling to stay in the 280 range. Weight problems started when he joined the Pelicans.

Luka will never have LeBrons genetic traits of being a freak athlete. LeBron even if he didn’t train as hard as he does would still be a freak athlete, he’s just been able to capitalize on it because he’s been so focused. Luka will never be the same freak LeBron is, but he can still do a lot to work on his body and fitness to be able to play at an MVP level from the start of the season.

[khaled1987]

I was very envious.  Even if Zion wants to leave, the Pelicans are sitting on a pot of asset gold.  Some team will pay full price for him.

I always wanted Morant over him tbh.
I remember there were a leaked photo of a mock/rehearsal of the lottery that had Mavs with 2nd pick, and I always think of what could have been.

[dynamicalVoid]

Can anyone educate me on player jersey/merchandise sale commissions?

Is this negotiable when signing a contract with a team?  Or is there something in CBA that claims players get X amount and its non-negotiable? 

How much more money could Zion make by forcing his way out of New Orleans and getting to a large market team?

Would it be maybe a couple of million or are we talking 10's of millions?

[michaeltex]

Can anyone educate me on player jersey/merchandise sale commissions?

Is this negotiable when signing a contract with a team?  Or is there something in CBA that claims players get X amount and its non-negotiable? 

How much more money could Zion make by forcing his way out of New Orleans and getting to a large market team?

Would it be maybe a couple of million or are we talking 10's of millions?

Quick scan seems to indicate that jersey and other licensed product sales are covered in the CBA. They appear to be part of the BRI (Basketball Related Income) which also includes ticket sales and TV revenue. Then the players get whatever % has been negotiated (49-ish% ?) in the CBA to make the salary cap. So there is income, just not directly related to item sales.

It's not going to benefit Zion to go to a bigger market team where he might get more jersey sales if he doesn't perform well enough to warrant a high end contract. The only way to benefit is to get a bigger % of the teams salary cap.

[SleepingHero]

Can anyone educate me on player jersey/merchandise sale commissions?

Is this negotiable when signing a contract with a team?  Or is there something in CBA that claims players get X amount and its non-negotiable? 

How much more money could Zion make by forcing his way out of New Orleans and getting to a large market team?

Would it be maybe a couple of million or are we talking 10's of millions?

Pretty sure all revenue that the team sells individually is made by the team. Stuff sold by the NBA is compiled and divvied up equally amongst the 30 teams.

Players don't see that money directly. BUT since the cap is based on the amount of total revenue generated from the league, all player's contracts get directly influenced by jersey/merch sales. This way we don't see Lebron getting paid $700 mil (though he really does through sponsorships) while Furkan Korkmaz only gets 3 mil.

The incentive for Zion to play in NYK comes largely through name recognition and potential sponsorships since those aren't subjugated by the CBA. That's where he'd make infinitely more since NYK's commerciality dwarfs New Orleans.

[F Gump]

Can anyone educate me on player jersey/merchandise sale commissions?
 

Those are team/league revenue (not controlled by a player nor paid out as some sort of extra individual player compensation) owned under NBA Properties. That results in them becoming part of the BRI (Basketball Related Income) calculation, which determines the cap, which drives the overall size of player salaries. (Players as a whole get half of BRI.)

Players do get paid individually for whatever endorsement deals they make, and sneaker deals are at or near the top of that food chain.