TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[KillerLeft]

"He'll have a great game, then he'll go like 1-7."

That's the way we talk about Hardaway. It's the way Miami fans talk about Robinson. Etc, etc. That's just how it goes with shooters.

[ItsGoTime]

That's the way we talk about Hardaway. It's the way Miami fans talk about Robinson. Etc, etc. That's just how it goes with shooters.

So just hope he hits the hot streak when you need it? I remember a time when you would see Kerr come on the court and you knew a few big shots were about to happen. I can’t say that about THJ, and we haven’t seen enough of Davis to have any opinion.

[KillerLeft]

So just hope he hits the hot streak when you need it? I remember a time when you would see Kerr come on the court and you knew a few big shots were about to happen. I can’t say that about THJ, and we haven’t seen enough of Davis to have any opinion.

Yes. I believe (feel like I know, actually) that any shooter you watch in every game, every night will leave you with the impression that he's a little bit "streaky." Hardaway was playing badly this season, but in the two previous ones he got a pretty bad rap for this. I have no doubt Bertans will have some rough shooting nights along the way here, but just knowing he's capable of games like last night will make his defender stick to him like glue. That's extremely helpful.

Even Curry has nights like the one against the Mavs not too long ago. Just part of it.

[ItsGoTime]

Yes. I believe (feel like I know, actually) that any shooter you watch in every game, every night will leave you with the impression that he's a little bit "streaky." Hardaway was playing badly this season, but in the two previous ones he got a pretty bad rap for this. I have no doubt Bertans will have some rough shooting nights along the way here, but just knowing he's capable of games like last night will make his defender stick to him like glue. That's extremely helpful.

Even Curry has nights like the one against the Mavs not too long ago. Just part of it.

I’m well aware of how shooting works. Curry isn’t a good example of how it doesn’t work. Just think it’s way premature to make any sort of conclusion on DB and his shooting after 3 games. I’m glad for the gravity, but gravity won’t win that 1 needed possession, putting the ball in the basket will. If we’re going to use him like Kerr, I hope he’s good enough to be Kerr (I guess the better comparison is big shot bob, but he brought so much more to the game than taking the big shots).

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

So just hope he hits the hot streak when you need it? I remember a time when you would see Kerr come on the court and you knew a few big shots were about to happen. I can’t say that about THJ, and we haven’t seen enough of Davis to have any opinion.

This is what I hate about THJ.

Whenever THJ comes in, I'm hoping he gets hot and provides the big shots, because he could.

The Jet.. whenever he comes in, I expect him to shoot exceptionally well, and hit the big ones every night. It's non a very realistic expectation, and there are nights his scoring/shooting didn't go so well. But I'm totally at ease with Jason Terry. To me, he comes into the game not to shoot because he is good at it, he comes into the game knowing he would make every shot.

[TXBamanut]

That's the way we talk about Hardaway. It's the way Miami fans talk about Robinson. Etc, etc. That's just how it goes with shooters.

Uh, huh.  Hope you are right.

[KillerLeft]

I’m well aware of how shooting works. Curry isn’t a good example of how it doesn’t work. Just think it’s way premature to make any sort of conclusion on DB and his shooting after 3 games.

Seems like you're offended, somehow. Not my intention, sorry. I just disagree with you about this, that's all. There is no shooter who shoots their average over a smaller selection of shots. They ALL get to 40%, or 42%, or 33%, or whatever, the exact same way. Hot some nights, cold some others. All of their team's fans think the other teams' shooters are "consistent" while theirs are "streaky."

[KillerLeft]

Regarding Bertans, specifically: he got shots off in about five distinctly different ways last night. Different setup angles, different gathers, different rhythms. Standstill, coming off of a dead sprint, etc. Even the time Luka flipped it to him above the break with like 2 seconds left on the shot clock felt like it had a chance to go in. It's beyond obvious that he's a great shooter. Way better than Hardaway, and I'm probably THJ's last fan here. Obviously we don't know if he'll make them when they matter most - that's why they play the games and not compare percentages on a spreadsheet to decide who wins. 

But it's got to be clear to any objective viewer at this point that the guy is extremely skilled as a shooter. Frankly, I'm not sure why everyone's so worried. Just don't play him in situations where you can't, defensively (every team has players like that, too), and he'll be a plus most nights.

[KillerLeft]

Whenever THJ comes in, I'm hoping he gets hot and provides the big shots, because he could.

The Jet.. whenever he comes in, I expect him to shoot exceptionally well, and hit the big ones every night. It's non a very realistic expectation, and there are nights his scoring/shooting didn't go so well. But I'm totally at ease with Jason Terry. To me, he comes into the game not to shoot because he is good at it, he comes into the game knowing he would make every shot.

This kind of proves my point. 

Not sure if this applies to you, specifically, but most of the same people here who hate THJ and are now doing their best to hate Bertans HATED JET. For like 5 years I read on DB.com forum how "inconsistent" and "streaky" JET was, and how "he can't even shoot anymore" and how they had to get rid of him and blah, blah, blah. It was obvious he was the team's 2nd best player, and that the entire offense was built around him. Obvious. 

Now, those cold shooting nights are starting to fade from memory and all we remember is the GOOD stuff. 

I don't think Hardaway will make it here as long as JET did, and even if he does, I don't think he's nearly the overall player that JET was, but make no mistake - the complainers hated him with a passion. They're still here today, living among us. Waiting in the shadows, patiently searching for things to complain about!

[mvossman]

This kind of proves my point. 

Not sure if this applies to you, specifically, but most of the same people here who hate THJ and are now doing their best to hate Bertans HATED JET. For like 5 years I read on DB.com forum how "inconsistent" and "streaky" JET was, and how "he can't even shoot anymore" and how they had to get rid of him and blah, blah, blah. It was obvious he was the team's 2nd best player, and that the entire offense was built around him. Obvious. 

Now, those cold shooting nights are starting to fade from memory and all we remember is the GOOD stuff. 

I don't think Hardaway will make it here as long as JET did, and even if he does, I don't think he's nearly the overall player that JET was, but make no mistake - the complainers hated him with a passion. They're still here today, living among us. Waiting in the shadows, patiently searching for things to complain about!

I think its reasonable for folks to get frustrated with shoot only players.  When the shot is off they provide nothing on the court.  Bullock's shot was a disaster the first two months of the season, but at least he was playing quality defense on the other end.  I have never been a fan of that kind of player, especially at the contracts THJ and Bertans are on.  I much prefer a 3&D player like Maxi, DFS or Bullock for 10-12 mil, especially when we will almost always have two guys on the court that can create for themselves and others but are limited on the defensive end.

[ItsGoTime]

Seems like you're offended, somehow. Not my intention, sorry. I just disagree with you about this, that's all. There is no shooter who shoots their average over a smaller selection of shots. They ALL get to 40%, or 42%, or 33%, or whatever, the exact same way. Hot some nights, cold some others. All of their team's fans think the other teams' shooters are "consistent" while theirs are "streaky."

Not offended, I just think we’re talking past eachother. What I’m trying to describe is as a viewer, having confidence in the players shot. I never got very confident in THJ’s shot going in. When I watched Fisher, Paxson, Kerr, Horry, I was pretty confident their shot would after watching it happen time and again (many times in horror). I’m not fully there with Luka although he’s close. With Dirk, you knew it when you watched his windup and release (there were times he didn’t square up his body to the rim or was rushed where the confidence lessened). Blackman was there to me.


I liked the post with the JET reference, but am one of those who you later pointed out that was never there with him either. He, to me, is closer to THJ than he is Kerr.

Yes, with shooting players there is an ebb and flow to their % game-to-game. The greats had less ebb and more flow. Their shooting graphs look closer to a wave than a rollercoaster. 

It may be that I need to adjust my thinking about it too. There are a TON more 3’s being shot nowadays. That’s not necessarily a good thing though for some shooters.

[dirkfansince1998]

Really cannot compare players like Steve Kerr to todays shooting specialists. Kerr averaged 1.8 3PA per game for his career. Basically only attempted wide open catch and shoot 3s. Bertans or THJ are in the 7+ 3PA range when they play starter minutes. With a way higher degree of difficulty.

Terry is a better comparisation but still not close when it comes to volume. For the most part he was coming up short in the playoffs. People that are old enough remember how Mavs fans wanted to get rid of him in 06 and 07. His super hot playoff run in 2011 changed the entire narrative. He obviously was a better and more versatile player than both THJ and Bertans but the fan reaction reminds me of Terry´s time in Dallas.

[Branduil]

That's the way we talk about Hardaway. It's the way Miami fans talk about Robinson. Etc, etc. That's just how it goes with shooters.

I hope Sacramento feels the same way. They definitely need shooting so let's go get Holmes from them this offseason.

[WillE]

Not offended, I just think we’re talking past eachother. What I’m trying to describe is as a viewer, having confidence in the players shot. I never got very confident in THJ’s shot going in. When I watched Fisher, Paxson, Kerr, Horry, I was pretty confident their shot would after watching it happen time and again (many times in horror). I’m not fully there with Luka although he’s close. With Dirk, you knew it when you watched his windup and release (there were times he didn’t square up his body to the rim or was rushed where the confidence lessened). Blackman was there to me.

One important difference regarding the confidence about a shooters shot is going to fall is imho what side you're on: you're happy for a moment when the opponent's shooter misses, but if not it's kind of a confirmation of how good he is.

Otoh if your own shooter misses, you're frustrated (at least when the shot was wide open), but the positive feeling when the shot actually goes down is usually not as good as when the other misses, because he simply had to make that one.

So to me this is a very subjective topic but a good measurement for a shooters abilities is still shots made together with the %. Which is why we should love having Bertans because he is an elite shooter.

[SleepingHero]

The biggest concern I have so far after making this trade is the rebounding.

Mavs were a poor rebounding team with even with KP. Now? They're hopeless.  Chuck summarizes it well with this tweet.

https://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/1497434035894763521

I don't think there are any quick fixes to stop the bleeding this season. Maybe a Chriss return could help stabilize a little.

[burekemde]

The biggest concern I have so far after making this trade is the rebounding.

Mavs were a poor rebounding team with even with KP. Now? They're hopeless.  Chuck summarizes it well with this tweet.

https://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/1497434035894763521

I don't think there are any quick fixes to stop the bleeding this season. Maybe a Chriss return could help stabilize a little.

Great point. We are weak inside under the rim. Lost a lot in terms of rim protection. Lost a lot in terms of rebounding.

[Kammrath]

BOOM BABY.

[Omega_Supreme]

WE WON THE TRADE LMAO

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/IsaacLHarris/status/...6883622915

[Mavs03]

I want to apologize to Nico.  When I heard the trade, my initial reaction was "that's it?"  Dinwiddie and Bertans?  I thought we could get a little more from Washington.  I wasn't thrilled with the trade.  Boy I was wrong.  Our bench is much better as a result of these 2 additions.  Hopefully, THJ can get healthy and provide yet another scoring option off the bench.