TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[cow]

I mean is there anyone currently in the league or even a prospect that could possibly be the next Draymond Green? I'm struggling to think of one. 

Maybe Mikal Bridges? Deandre Hunter? Neither have the passing ability of Green though. 

I will say if our own Josh Green was 2-3 inches taller he'd be a pretty good candidate!

Different bodies.  Draymond is stout.  I can't speak to Bridges leadership abilities but Draymond seems way more vocal.

[Chicagojk]

I mean is there anyone currently in the league or even a prospect that could possibly be the next Draymond Green? I'm struggling to think of one. 

Maybe Mikal Bridges? Deandre Hunter? Neither have the passing ability of Green though. 

I will say if our own Josh Green was 2-3 inches taller he'd be a pretty good candidate!

I think Bam does some of the things Draymond does.   I think Scottie Barnes is a younger kid who has some comparisons.

Draymond is such a unique player though...perfect team for him to play for as well.

I don't think Green is any near Draymond level career, but I do think he has a chance to be a unique player who doesn't have many player comparisons with.   He has a chance for that.    I don't expect an all star.

[michaeltex]

About half of the threes Bertans took last night weren't good shots, he was just trying too hard to make something happen.

My perception is that DB's forte is the corner 3pt shot. That's where he's shooting astronomical %s. I see him rotating higher as the ball moves to the other side, which is proper I guess. But it takes him away from his best position. I'm not schooled enough to know if it is problematic to stay in the corner or not, but I'd like comments from more informed posters.

The thing he disagreed with was giving KP a five-year, fully guaranteed contract on his re-signing.

This feels a little revisionist. 


Remembering back, KP and his rep/brother were both kind of closed mouth about whether he'd even sign with DAL after the season. There was speculation that he'd get offers from more competitive teams and take the alternative deal instead. We were collectively still flinching from the DAJ bait-and-switch. I think DAL got his signature before the sound even faded from the midnight chime during free agency.

[cow]

This feels a little revisionist. 


Remembering back, KP and his rep/brother were both kind of closed mouth about whether he'd even sign with DAL after the season. There was speculation that he'd get offers from more competitive teams and take the alternative deal instead. We were collectively still flinching from the DAJ bait-and-switch. I think DAL got his signature before the sound even faded from the midnight chime during free agency.

And had KP of walked, you would have spent those assets for nothing.  KP wanted out of New York but I'd guess Dallas was pretty far down the list of places he wanted to end up.   Maybe they could have written injury protections into the contract to go along with that fifth year, but the Mavs really couldn't afford to have any doubt in KP's mind about signing here.

[SleepingHero]

I think Bam does some of the things Draymond does.   I think Scottie Barnes is a younger kid who has some comparisons.

Draymond is such a unique player though...perfect team for him to play for as well.

I don't think Green is any near Draymond level career, but I do think he has a chance to be a unique player who doesn't have many player comparisons with.   He has a chance for that.    I don't expect an all star.

Agreed I don't think Josh's career peak will ever reach that of Green's. Just in terms of uniqueness they are similar in that regard. Green might flame out in 2 years never to be heard from again. He might supplant himself as a starter. I really have no clue. 

I totally forgot about Bam. He's probably the closest thing in the league to Draymond. Better scorer, less vocal of a defender.

[khaled1987]

And had KP of walked, you would have spent those assets for nothing.  KP wanted out of New York but I'd guess Dallas was pretty far down the list of places he wanted to end up.   Maybe they could have written injury protections into the contract to go along with that fifth year, but the Mavs really couldn't afford to have any doubt in KP's mind about signing here.

KP didn't control where he goes since he was RFA. That wasn't the worry, even if signed an offer sheet we would have matched, and remember other teams could only offer him 4 years. 
I think main fear was KP agreeing a short contract with another team and forcing us to match, basically 3+1 and then he could have forced his way out after 2 years (i.e before contract year) as many stars do.
We just wanted a commitment from both sides and truly believed in him and went all in. 
Had KP met expectations,  that strategy won't be bad tbh

[burekemde]

Agreed I don't think Josh's career peak will ever reach that of Green's. Just in terms of uniqueness they are similar in that regard. Green might flame out in 2 years never to be heard from again. He might supplant himself as a starter. I really have no clue. 

I totally forgot about Bam. He's probably the closest thing in the league to Draymond. Better scorer, less vocal of a defender.

Bam has an offensive game, I didnt know this. Game against us, he hit tough contested shot after tough contested shot, was truly impressive. Defensively really great. Mobile. Actually no apparent weakness. We are one player like this away from contending for real.

[KillerLeft]

Bam has an offensive game, I didnt know this. Game against us, he hit tough contested shot after tough contested shot, was truly impressive. Defensively really great. Mobile. Actually no apparent weakness. We are one player like this away from contending for real.

LOVE Adabayo. Agree with the emboldened point. 

But, it MUST be a player who can play off of Luka, unlike Porzingis.

[burekemde]

LOVE Adabayo. Agree with the emboldened point. 

But, it MUST be a player who can play off of Luka, unlike Porzingis.

Agree. Bam would actually a be a great fit with Luka, as the roll guy. He is in some ways as Powell. Just a lot stronger, skilled and more athletic, better in every skillset actually. And also better shooter around the rim and in mid range. I thought Sabonis would be great fit with Luka on offense based on the skill and how Sabonis would read Luka and position himself. But Bam has that skills and shooting as well as also the rolling ability, but also fantastic defense and footwork on defense. I have no doubt this would fantastic fit with Luka.

I am still hesitant on athletic players without skillset at this position. Luka is all about high IQ and using the athletic ability with mental chess game. Its not enough to just find someone athletic and that this would work. But we also need athletic ability in order for the rim rolling to work, and on defense to be able to cover the perimeter. In many ways Bam would be the perfect player to pair with Luka in that sense.

Its not easy to find that upgrade over Powell. He does fit Lukas game. But this is the position we could seriously upgrade the team. This is the position in most games at most times that is playing along Luka the most, and that player that along with Luka is at the focal point attacking defenses. The roll player that sets the screens can in many ways viewed as the offensive lineman and Luka as the QB. He needs to read Luka as much as the other way around. We need a player that is great in setting screens, is athletic as roll player and on defense can protect the rim better than Powell does, as well as the defensive perimeter. And has some more offensive game and skill around the rim to finish plays. Doesnt need to be Vucevic or Kevin Garnett skills - but preferably more than Powell skills. Definitely not easy to get a player like that. Bam would be amazing. But we need to find that player with time. This would clearly also elevate Lukas game to new levels more than any other upgrade at any other position. Which can be vievew as important investment to maintain Luka. Its a bit like Stockton and Malone how they elevated each others game. Powell is a fit with Luka. But he clearly is not even close to that level Luka is at.

[cow]

KP didn't control where he goes since he was RFA. That wasn't the worry, even if signed an offer sheet we would have matched, and remember other teams could only offer him 4 years. 
I think main fear was KP agreeing a short contract with another team and forcing us to match, basically 3+1 and then he could have forced his way out after 2 years (i.e before contract year) as many stars do.
We just wanted a commitment from both sides and truly believed in him and went all in. 
Had KP met expectations,  that strategy won't be bad tbh

Dang, my wires are crossed today.

[ThisIStheYear]

Listened to the first part of the BS podcast, discussing the KP trades. Haralabob was the guest. If this has already been summarized elsewhere, disregard. 


First, Bill and Bob discussed the recent trade of KP to Washington. 

Bob thinks the Mavs wanted to keep DFS and offer Brunson a contract in free agency, and having KP’s huge contract on the books made that difficult. Now, they are in a position to decide in the summer whether they want to keep Dinwiddie or re-sign Brunson.

Or better, decide between SD and THJ.  SD, THJ, and JB all seem like they’ll have similar contracts when all is said and done.  JB is clearly the best of the three (so maybe he’ll get more than the $20 million we think). Haven’t seen enough of SD yet, but I expect I’ll prefer him to THJ.  SD just does more things.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Or better, decide between SD and THJ.  SD, THJ, and JB all seem like they’ll have similar contracts when all is said and done.  JB is clearly the best of the three (so maybe he’ll get more than the $20 million we think). Haven’t seen enough of SD yet, but I expect I’ll prefer him to THJ.  SD just does more things.

It will be interesting to watch the closing lineup in close games...especially once Bullock returns.  Here is how we closed the last two games:

MIA:  Luka, Brunson, DFS, Powell, Maxi

NOP:  Luka, Brunson, Dinwiddie, DFS, Maxi

Four are constants and Dinwiddie earned the nod over Powell in only his second game.  If that continues there is no need for THJ.  I really think SD was the target and Bertans was useful ballast.  We will know as we see how many minutes SD gets and how much 3 guard lineups are played once Bullock returns.

[Kammrath]

I really think SD was the target and Bertans was useful ballast.

This might be right. But I would personally argue that BOTH were targets (Nico said the guys filled two needs: creation and shooting). I do think SD was probably the priority though. 

I do think SD has the possibility of raising the ceiling of this team more than DB. But I also think he is a more volatile and risky proposition.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I mean is there anyone currently in the league or even a prospect that could possibly be the next Draymond Green? I'm struggling to think of one. 

Maybe Mikal Bridges? Deandre Hunter? Neither have the passing ability of Green though. 

I will say if our own Josh Green was 2-3 inches taller he'd be a pretty good candidate!

You might disagree but I think Ben Simmons could fill that role.  He doesn't like to shoot a lot, is an excellent passer, ball-handler, defender,  and rebounder, and sets up his teammates.

[burekemde]

Dinwiddie is extremely impressive. It's clear he has high bbIQ. Similar player in terms of skillset as Brunson. Having two of those is crucial for long term success. THJ should defenitely be the one out. Having Bertans is a bonus. Its always good with more shooting, especially with Luka. But Bertans can do more than just shoot, I do not agree with some reports on him that he is shooter only. He doesnt excel in the other areas, true, but he can do more than just shoot.

[SleepingHero]

You might disagree but I think Ben Simmons could fill that role.  He doesn't like to shoot a lot, is an excellent passer, ball-handler, defender,  and rebounder, and sets up his teammates.

Oh! That's actually a good comparison. Simmons has the passing game, he's an elite defender, and he's a reluctant scorer (though objectively he's much better than Draymond has ever been).

That's a perfect comparison. He also slipped my mind since he's been out of the league since last year.

[michaeltex]

KP didn't control where he goes since he was RFA. That wasn't the worry, even if signed an offer sheet we would have matched, and remember other teams could only offer him 4 years. 
I think main fear was KP agreeing a short contract with another team and forcing us to match, basically 3+1 and then he could have forced his way out after 2 years (i.e before contract year) as many stars do.
We just wanted a commitment from both sides and truly believed in him and went all in. 
Had KP met expectations,  that strategy won't be bad tbh

You are correct. 

I just remember the MBT spending a lot of energy to make KP feel wanted here. To the point of getting his family and personal trainer involved in the rehab process. There was the collective held breath about getting him signed. Some talk about maybe putting in injury clauses, but nobody wanted to make those kind of waves with a high profile expiring contract. Maybe the expectation was that, in treating KP generously, others would be drawn to DAL. 

Doesn't seem to have worked so far.

Of course, it's all now buyers regret.

[WillE]

I just realised that Bertans is now our best scoring big man, so just because of that it's almost guaranteed to me that he'll increase his value in the remainder of the season.

So that seems like a pretty safe bet by MBT.

Whereas SD still needs to figure out his role, but even for that the last game gave some perspective that he should be more used - for the better of the team.

[Kammrath]

TRADE VERDICT:

I have seen enough to love this trade for the Mavs. DB and SD aren't even playing really well yet in these first 2 games or understanding the systems fully, but I would take those two guys over KP all day, every day. 

Well done, Nico, well done.

34 points off the bench for SD & DB, basically the only reason the Mavs had a puncher's chance in UTA last night.

[TXBamanut]

I listened to Locked on Wizards describing Bertans post trade to the LOM host, and this is what they said...
"He'll have a great game, then he'll go like 1-7."  Super inconsistent.  They said you love him when he's hitting because it covers up what a sieve he is on defense, but if he's clanking open threes you hate him, because he literally brings nothing else and is a negative just about everywhere else.  They referenced the Philly game where he put up a quadruple zero (P/A/S/B)and fouled out in 24 minutes last year.  They said he showed up to camp after he got that big contract way out of shape (where have we heard this before), and it went downhill from there, so it's not all just "toxic Washington", although I am sure that's a part of it.

So far, their assessment is spot on....we'll see where it goes.

3-7
1-7
6-9

Would have been nice to have felt comfortable to put him in at the end of the game last night to capitalize on his hot streak, but his defense sucks so bad, I have a hard time seeing Kidd doing that much.  Maybe he'll improve in this scheme.