TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[Davemo]

I think this trade is nothing but a roll of the dice for the Mavs FO:

Assuming they did not pass up other offers and KP and his contract were undesirable.

— You have KP on a HUGE contract. He has jelly for knees and your doctors have full intel on him.  What are the chances he ever is useful for any extended period of time?

— You have Dinwiddie (not a fan personally) who is a bit injured but playing. Like KP…he has played at a high level in the past. Still overpaid, he is paid less than KP. He also has lesser upside.  You also have Bertans who is most likely a spare.  He has had one nice season. He is overpaid but overall makes less than KP or SD. 

So I think the FO decided there was a better chance that at least one of these two would resurrect his career enough to be a neutral or positive asset.  Its a gamble…will KP and his knees ever amount to anything or will at least one of these two schlubs amount to something?

Tough call.  But they are rolling the dice on the schlubs.

[Winter]

Whoopity doo, we go over the tax for 1 year, then we have $75 to 95M for 4-5 players, how does that work out with the remaining salary?

It works the same for all teams. They trade away contracts. They find ways to reduce payroll. Or they act like the Clippers and just pay the tax.

Like a lot of teams, the Mavs will need to find ways to manage it. If you a have small payroll it probably means you're not a playoff team.

[cow]

luka started to play when he was 13 so it is quite possible that these years, his 21-25th. are possibly his pinnacle years. Will he look around and see, that basically (brunson excluded) he cannot count on anybody to replace him for few minutes of deserved rest? That mavs championship is in this situation a pipe dream? Or will he look further, i.e. to another teams for realizing his  dream? Simmons did, Harden did, and a lot of other players did and will do. We cannot expect luka to spend 15 years in dallas waiting till gm and fo and owner find players to complement him all the time counting the costs; he will be gone before that, he said himself championship is above the money... I know building a team takes time but it has been long years now already...

I'm less concerned about his teenage hooping but I do think you have a point about him entering/exiting his prime earlier.  This isn't a fat Luka joke, but he's not a natural athlete nor is he a gym rat.  He carries a lot of weight so thinking he'll have a 15-year career might be a bad expectation, especially if he doesn't develop better eating/workout habits.  

I'm with you on the feeling that the MBT have been unsuccessful at making the team better.  The improvements have come from Luka, JB and some of the role players getting better with a pinch of Carlisle maximizing THJ.  It feels like we've been stuck in the mud for three years and we are at least in this holding pattern for another two-three years.

[Winter]

I'm with you on the feeling that the MBT have been unsuccessful at making the team better.  The improvements have come from Luka, JB and some of the role players getting better with a pinch of Carlisle maximizing THJ.  It feels like we've been stuck in the mud for three years and we are at least in this holding pattern for another two-three years.

This is legitimate criticism. Getting rid of KP probably had to happen, so I'm OK with it... but it doesn't deflect from the recent inept bungling of both free agency and the draft.

Hopefully it trends in other direction soon.

[ItsGoTime]

The Raptors asked for KP AND Brunson.. that’s where the 1st round pick from Toronto came in. They were absolutely not giving Dallas a 1st and an expiring purely for KP’s contract, get real people.

They asked for JB because the salary ballast was OG Anunoby (works both ways). You guys that keep ignoring that the salary ballast was needed FROM Toronto, not from Dallas. When I put it in the trade machine, it said I needed $7.4M more in salary and their guys go from Gary Trent Jr at $16M to Barnes at $7.2M, that means the ballast is either 2 players at a lesser salary or one of their higher contributing players.

[ItsGoTime]

You really think that's my perspective? It is not. I never said each of the players was better than KP.

My position:

1) BOTH players as a package (if playing to what they have been over their careers) are better than the reality (not the "potential") of KP.

2) I think Bertans by himself (if healthy and playing like the few years before this one) is a better FIT with Luka.

3) I have questions about Dinwiddie defensively (more than Bertans) and his outside shot is a concern. But he is exactly what this board has been clamoring for (whether they realize it or not) in regard to another shot creator and someone to instigate the offense through. 

4) I believe the KP we have been seeing is the absolute best we will see of him from the rest of his career. I personally think his "potential" is really imaginary at this point. 

I could be wrong about a lot of this, but this is my ACTUAL position on these things as of now.

At the time of the trade, EVERYONE should be viewed as they are who they are, not just our players (at least when dealing with vets). That's what I'm trying to get across. Explaining the hopes and vision, doesn't come into play until after they start playing in our uniform.

[KillerLeft]

They asked for JB because the salary ballast was OG Anunoby (works both ways). You guys that keep ignoring that the salary ballast was needed FROM Toronto, not from Dallas. When I put it in the trade machine, it said I needed $7.4M more in salary and their guys go from Gary Trent Jr at $16M to Barnes at $7.2M, that means the ballast is either 2 players at a lesser salary or one of their higher contributing players.

I have to admit that I think the likelihood of anyone paying a 1st for Porzingis is pretty low, to the point where I think there must have been a point of contention that we're missing today. If Brunson's inclusion was what justified the 1st's inclusion, I think they were right to turn that down. That seems likely to me.

[MaxiThreeba]

I'm less concerned about his teenage hooping but I do think you have a point about him entering/exiting his prime earlier.  This isn't a fat Luka joke, but he's not a natural athlete nor is he a gym rat.  He carries a lot of weight so thinking he'll have a 15-year career might be a bad expectation, especially if he doesn't develop better eating/workout habits.  

I'm with you on the feeling that the MBT have been unsuccessful at making the team better.  The improvements have come from Luka, JB and some of the role players getting better with a pinch of Carlisle maximizing THJ.  It feels like we've been stuck in the mud for three years and we are at least in this holding pattern for another two-three years.

The KP trade and extensions were swings and misses.  But they were swings many franchises would take.  It's hard to 20/20 those two decisions.

The 2020 draft, however, was a massive failure that set the roster back in an even bigger way IMO.  I say that as a guy who enjoys watching Josh Green and appreciates the work ethic he brings.  

Even if we assume they were dead set on the Curry - Richardson trade, they executed that in the worst way possible.  That deal should have been Curry and #31 for Richardson and #21 as the primary framework.  Armed with #18 and #21 the Mavs either have enough ammo to get to #12 for Haliburton or they sit tight and if they make the right picks have 2 of Bane, Maxey, Bey.

That is a roster altering miss.

[TXBamanut]

There certainly could have been more to the deal but I think if the ask was JB, that would have been leaked.

Is that what Fisher said?  KP AND Brunson?  Because I heard from Windhorst and McMahon on that pod today that it was Dragic, salary filler (like Bocher) and a 1st for KP from Toronto.  Of all of that, the 1st is what intrigued me the most depending on when it was, because it would get us to being able to trade picks sooner.

Here's what some people call a "rotation player" for the Mavs...this takes "special ability" to accomplish, btw.

0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 6 fouls 24 minutes -- special indeed.

[KillerLeft]

Here's what some people call a "rotation player" for the Mavs...this takes "special ability" to accomplish, btw.

We're calling him that because that's what he'll be. Only a couple of people (not me) are excited about calling him that, but he will absolutely be in the rotation if he's healthy. You don't think so?

[Fuerza1]

30-year-old Rubio shot below 40% overall, 31% from 3, with averages of 8.6 ppg and 6.4 apg on a bad TWolves team but still got his $17.8M expiring contract traded [for 2nd rounder + Prince] last summer. And even though his shooting averages remained abysmal in CLE, Rubio was viewed as a huge positive in CLE's regular season success before his injury. 

Dinwiddie is is making similar money and can provide similar impact. It may not be on a true expiring this summer but some teams could view it that way since only $10M out of the $18.8M is guaranteed in 2023-24. It's not the most ideal but just saying there's a chance the Mavs could actually get something useful out of him if they choose to do so. 

First things first, need to find the best way to maximize Dinwiddie so he plays his way into becoming a moveable asset.

[ItsGoTime]

First things first, need to find the best way to maximize Dinwiddie so he plays his way into becoming a moveable asset.

Which is the reason JB bolts in the offseason.

[fifteenth]

Cuban said we're out of LT hell (btw, "hell" is the repeater tax, not a 1 year dip, but I digress) the next year, so not sure where you're going with this based on the info out right now. Whoopity doo, we go over the tax for 1 year, then we have $75 to 95M for 4-5 players, how does that work out with the remaining salary?

I apologize, pal, I don't really understand how our two posts are related. I was just saying that (1) building through trades by having tradeable contracts is an option for team building just as building with cap space is an option. And (2) I've heard folks way more expert than me (which doesn't take much) call the two contracts we acquired "useful for trades". That's all.

[michaeltex]

Just a little perspective...

13 months ago BKN traded with Houston for James Hardin. Player assets aside, BKN paid 3 FRP (22, 24, 26) and 4 FRP swaps (21, 23, 25, 27) to acquire Hardin's rights. They also offered a $161M extension, that was declined. In trading with PHL, BKN received a FRP (22) and a 1-8 protected FRP (27). 

Harden played 81 games for BKN. So all those picks for basically one season.

KP was having an All Star season when he had his knee injury. The bet and the trade was based on his potential to return to that level. I hate that he's gone, but DAL will still owe 2023 FRP to NYK, but at least the pain doesn't extend for another 5 years.

This is now Luka's team. No more having Luka try and include a prima donna just to keep him happy. Just play baby, just have fun and play.

[MaxiThreeba]

30-year-old Rubio shot below 40% overall, 31% from 3, with averages of 8.6 ppg and 6.4 apg on a bad TWolves team but still got his $17.8M expiring contract traded [for 2nd rounder + Prince] last summer. And even though his shooting averages remained abysmal in CLE, Rubio was viewed as a huge positive in CLE's regular season success before his injury. 

Dinwiddie is is making similar money and can provide similar impact. It may not be on a true expiring this summer but some teams could view it that way since only $10M out of the $18.8M is guaranteed in 2023-24. It's not the most ideal but just saying there's a chance the Mavs could actually get something useful out of him if they choose to do so. 

First things first, need to find the best way to maximize Dinwiddie so he plays his way into becoming a moveable asset.

Trying to figure out how they deploy this rotation is an interesting exercise that I'm sure is how Kidd and staff are spending their day today.

- 2 of Luka, JB, Dinwiddie
- 2 of DFS, Bullock, Green, Bertans 
- 1 of Powell, Maxi, Bertans

 Frankie, Burke, Chriss and Brown are spot/fill in guys and Bobi and Theo are mascots

No clue how they attempt to deploy our replacement Latvian and prayers up for DP and Maxi.

[omahen]

Harden played 81 games for BKN. So all those picks for basically one season.

But BKN got Simmons and Curry in the deal. I would say this package is way more than they paid for him.

[omahen]

Trying to figure out how they deploy this rotation is an interesting exercise that I'm sure is how Kidd and staff are spending their day today.

Roughly, imho

Luka (34), Dinwiddie (25)
Brunson (30), Green (15)
Bullock (34),
DFS (34), Bertans (20)
Powell (24), Kleber (24)

[KillerLeft]

Roughly, imho

Luka (34), Dinwiddie (25)
Brunson (30), Green (15)
Bullock (34),
DFS (34), Bertans (20)
Powell (24), Kleber (24)

Really interesting take on this. One I didn't even consider for a second, and I think you might have the right of it.

[ItsGoTime]

I apologize, pal, I don't really understand how our two posts are related. I was just saying that (1) building through trades by having tradeable contracts is an option for team building just as building with cap space is an option. And (2) I've heard folks way more expert than me (which doesn't take much) call the two contracts we acquired "useful for trades". That's all.

I thought you were trying to make a point that it was a change in thinking, going from plan powder to working over the cap. I pointed out that was a temporary thing due to Cuban saying they will be out of LT after a year. If they are indeed going to continue working over the cap, that wasn't conveyed in that quote.

[michaeltex]

But BKN got Simmons and Curry in the deal. I would say this package is way more than they paid for him.

Simmons is a phenomenal athlete, but a headcase that hasn't played this year and has stated he'd need at least a month to get back into playing shape. Who knows where his shot is anymore? I also have concerns about he and Kyrie in the same locker room. 

I've always liked Curry and think he has an OK game to go with Curry-level shooting ability. 

If anyone thinks this solves the BKN chemistry issues, good luck with that. IMO, this is similar to bringing Westbrook to LAL. Maybe for both clubs.

My original point is that atoning for the KP mistake, even if it was made on the best information at the time, is going to involve a little penance. Which comes in the form of trying to make something of SD and DB to turn them into more serviceable assets that will have value down the road. Regardless, DAL can move on.