TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[Mavs2021]

Dinwinddie´s contract isn´t fully guaranteed. And I cannot help you if you still haven´t understood the concept of salary matching. It´s a lot easier to construct a trade and match the salary for smaller contracts.  Match 16m with the MLE + rookie. Now try to do the same with a max contract. Includes more pieces or another big contract.

No I can´t help you, if you cannot understand that 16M of garbage is still garbage. What do you expect in return for this matchable salary?

Maybe its just a misunderstanding.

If you tell me that in 12 months we move Bertans + an unprotected 1st round pick for the expiring contract of Danilo Gallinari, than you are 100% spot on and we agree his contract was more easily match and moveable than Porzingis´ contract in this specific deal.

If you tell me further that in 12 months we move Dinwiddie + an unprotected 1st round pick for the contract of Evan Fournier, than you are 100% spot on again.

I will tell you that it would not have cost more assets to get rid of Porzingis in a Wall trade right now, but it would have cost Cuban a lot more money in the short-term i.e. 2022/2023 luxury tax bill.

[dirkfansince1998]

but you don’t put the numbers he was putting up on both ends of the court with just being an average player.  That’s where we disagree. 

If that is the case you should be happy about Dinwinddie. When he was healthy he put up similar numbers (20/4/7). Actually was the leading scorer on a playoff team. Now we just throw the slow start away because he is coming back from an injury. Sounds great.

[Winter]

Does the level of basketball they are able to play also enter this equation of salaries and ages, or is that a neglectable variable. Cause right now Jalen Brunson and DFS are the 2nd and 3rd best player on the Mavericks, while they´d be the JJB and DeShawn Stevenson on our Championship team.

I wasn't responding to the level of basketball. I was responding to payroll.

We are currently not a championship team. We are a playoff team today but with new players coming off the bench. We were playoff team yesterday with a starting center who rarely played because of injury. So not much has changed ... except that we have better bench players who may enjoy a change of venue.

KPs value today is not what it was in 2018. We were never going to get a strong starting player for him.

[dirkfansince1998]

No I can´t help you, if you cannot understand that 16M of garbage is still garbage. What do you expect in return for this matchable salary?

Maybe its just a misunderstanding.

If you tell me that in 12 months we move Bertans + an unprotected 1st round pick for the expiring contract of Danilo Gallinari, than you are 100% spot on and we agree his contract was more easily match and moveable than Porzingis´ contract in this specific deal.

If you tell me further that in 12 months we move Dinwiddie + an unprotected 1st round pick for the contract of Evan Fournier, than you are 100% spot on again.

I will tell you that it would not have cost more assets to get rid of Porzingis in a Wall trade right now, but it would have cost Cuban a lot more money in the short-term i.e. 2022/2023 luxury tax bill.

Unless you were willing to just let KP expire not paying some kind of price wasn´t an option. With the trade they doubled the chances to recover some value (maybe one of them isn´t as bad as we think). They have more flexibility. More options when it comes to salary matches.
What confuses me is your knowledge about things that never happened. What if I tell you that the Rockets would have asked for a first as well?

[hakeemfaan]

If that is the case you should be happy about Dinwinddie. When he was healthy he put up similar numbers (20/4/7). Actually was the leading scorer on a playoff team. Now we just throw the slow start away because he is coming back from an injury. Sounds great.

I liked Dimwiddie when he was with the Nets.  It is not that I am not familiar with him. However KP in that bubble was a monster against a loaded team that was a legit title favorite.  That is a different type of talent.  

Maybe I am living in the past with KP and he never would become that player in the bubble again but there were flashes this year.  The dude is talented and a lot of flak he got last year should be overlooked given what we found out was happening.

[Mavs2021]

Unless you were willing to just let KP expire not paying some kind of price wasn´t an option. With the trade they doubled the chances to recover some value (maybe one of them isn´t as bad as we think). They have more flexibility. More options when it comes to salary matches.
What confuses me is your knowledge about things that never happened. What if I tell you that the Rockets would have asked for a first as well?

Well you also have this power. You know there were no better deals out there for Porzingis. You know that the contracts of Dinwiddie/Bertans are more easily moveable than Porzingis. You know that Dinwiddie/Bertans will improve individually and the Mavs collectively, while Porzingis career is factually over, no chance of on-court production in Washington, just waiting for retirement approval by the league.

Eh see how that works in both directions.

[Winter]

Maybe I am living in the past with KP and he never would become that player in the bubble again but there were flashes this year.  The dude is talented and a lot of flak he got last year should be overlooked given what we found out was happening.

See I understand being generally optimistic about the potential. 

But I have to think the front office and medical professionals had to be realistic about the possibility that KP has the type of body that will more likely not hold up over time and continue to be a problem going forward.

[SwisherPrice]

Good trade...this was about as good as what I expected we can get for KP. Just get whatever you can get for a guy who only plays < 60 games a year. Dinwiddie isn't the definition of perfect health either but at least he will contribute towards a modern NBA offense with multiple ball-handlers. Coming into this season, I'd have trusted Bertans as a better shooter over Bullock. If Bullock can turn it around then I'm hoping Bertans can too

[hakeemfaan]

See I understand being generally optimistic about the potential. 

But I have to think the front office and medical professionals had to be realistic about the possibility that KP has the type of body that will more likely not hold up over time and continue to be a problem going forward.

As I said I have been very consistent in my feeling the past 2 months that it was time to cut the cord with KP. It was 100% based on his frailty.  All I am saying is even with those constraints and being realistic of what he could fetch, this trade was still far too underwhelming.   I would have punted to next off season and seen if he could stay healthy long enough in the playoffs this year to recapture some of that bubble magic in the interim. Just his play alone this year when healthy, I was pretty happy with how he was progressing.

[Winter]

I would have punted to next year and seen if he could stay healthy long enough in the playoffs this year to recapture some of that bubble magic.

I get that, but how far did we get in the bubble?

[dirkfansince1998]

Well you also have this power. You know there were no better deals out there for Porzingis. You know that the contracts of Dinwiddie/Bertans are more easily moveable than Porzingis. You know that Dinwiddie/Bertans will improve individually and the Mavs collectively, while Porzingis career is factually over, no chance of on-court production in Washington, just waiting for retirement approval by the league.

Eh see how that works in both directions.

Not really. I just know that my expectations aren´t directly related to some kind of fantasy trades that I am coming up with. I am still waiting for the report from Jake Fisher. He mentioned that the Mavs had other offers. Would love to see them. Probably end up prefering an offer the Mavs did not take. Just feels like a waste of energy to rant about it without even knowing the options.

[SleepingHero]

See I understand being generally optimistic about the potential. 

But I have to think the front office and medical professionals had to be realistic about the possibility that KP has the type of body that will more likely not hold up over time and continue to be a problem going forward.

Speaking about medical professionals, I would not be surprised if a report comes out before the all-star break about KP and his knee that we didn't know before.

If KP is damaged goods then that drastically changes my view on this trade.

[Branduil]

I liked Dimwiddie when he was with the Nets.  It is not that I am not familiar with him. However KP in that bubble was a monster against a loaded team that was a legit title favorite.  That is a different type of talent.  

Maybe I am living in the past with KP and he never would become that player in the bubble again but there were flashes this year.  The dude is talented and a lot of flak he got last year should be overlooked given what we found out was happening.

I mean that series is KP in a nutshell. Shows flashes, gets hurt, and then your team is left scrambling.

[Winter]

Speaking about medical professionals, I would not be surprised if a report comes out before the all-star break about KP and his knee that we didn't know before

Well he has to pass a physical in Washington, so it better not be something imminent. I doubt there's real talk in the public sphere. I think more likely people in the front office are listening to projections more than really current problems.

[Jym]

Will be horrible production for the price but I see Bertans turning into a positive on the court. He'll get plenty of wide open looks when he's in. Just need a hot shooting quarter or 2 from him in the playoffs and I'll be fine with his role

I'm going to need a lot more convincing on Dinwiddie though. He's going to be taking shots and minutes away from guys who I think should play over him and would have more of a positive impact

[TXBamanut]

^ Um no. While all of these players have sat here and there, the mythologizing on the games played this season, to skew perception, is getting absurd.

Dinwiddie has missed 9 games.
Bertans has missed 19 games.
KP has missed 21 games

---

This ^, sad to say. I hate that KP wasn't who we wanted him to be. But he wasn't really making the team better - and not reliable at all. Anything the two new hires contribute is indeed a plus. "

Porzingis has played 34 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ikr01.html
Bertans has played 34 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ada01.html
Dinwiddie has played 44 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...isp01.html

Wizards are 24-29 for 53 games.
Mavericks are 32-23 for 55 games.

Porzingis has missed 21 games.
Bertans has missed 19 games.
Dinwiddie has missed 10 games.

The two new hires aren't good and weren't playing good.

After taking my kid to her jazz concert and coming back and getting other kid to go see her and listening to a really good jazz concert with time to reflect here is where I stand.

KP wasn't going to play the scramble around defense that we are playing, and his injuries weren't helping...

Bad things.
1)  We traded for the SAME money and the SAME problems, but spread out over two players with ZERO replacement of defense.  Even the offense categories of Bertans and Dinwiddie together don't even replace KP's production...that's real sad.  Usually on trades like this you get a couple of players who at least together are more, or are on good contracts...we got the worst of both worlds.
2)  Dinwiddie pretty much means we don't need Dragic, so it makes me wonder if they know he's going elsewhere.  Two less than what they once were low defense, scoring guards that need the ball in their hands...no need for both.  Of the two, if I'm right, we are stuck paying way more money to the worse player.
3)  We will pay them for longer than we pay KP.  Dinwiddie is the same length as KP and Bertans is a year longer.
4)  As I watch the Clippers, Zubac and centers like that will kill us....we really needed to upgrade in the 5 department, not get worse.
5)  Bertans is in the same boat as KP, missed about the same amount of games, is shooting 9% below his career average...and has gone down ever since he signed that big contract two years ago.  He was completely out of the rotation in Washington and is currently injured.
6)  Dinwiddie is a shell of his former self, coming off a major surgery, and apparently is an abrasive, unliked presence in the locker room.
7)  We are looking at paying major tax next season with arguably a worse team, if nothing changes.
8)  There is basically NO rim protection on the team now.

Good things
1)  Two smaller contracts are easier to move than one big one.
2)  We do have a third secondary creator, but like I said, that may mean no Dragic, through no fault of the Mavs.
3)  Dinwiddie's contract is only partially guaranteed in the third year, NOT unguaranteed as Locked On Mavs reported.  He's owed 10 million of his 18 mill in the last year of his contract.  That means if someone wants to get off the like 20-22 million player, they can trade for Dinwiddie, cut him and only be on the hook for 10 million.
4)  The team won't have to get KP involved, and if there were chemistry issues behind the scenes, we got rid of that.
5)  Maybe coach can get something out of the guys.

Now it's time to move on....they are about to be in our jerseys and good or bad, they are ours.  KP is gone, so go with God and let's go Mavs.

[hakeemfaan]

I get that, but how far did we get in the bubble?

What kind of an argument is that when we say KP got hurt. Can we use that against Luka also then?

---

Porzingis has played 34 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ikr01.html
Bertans has played 34 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ada01.html
Dinwiddie has played 44 games this season - https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...isp01.html

Wizards are 24-29 for 53 games.
Mavericks are 32-23 for 55 games.

Porzingis has missed 21 games.
Bertans has missed 19 games.
Dinwiddie has missed 10 games.

The two new hires aren't good and weren't playing good.

After taking my kid to her jazz concert and coming back and getting other kid to go see her and listening to a really good jazz concert with time to reflect here is where I stand.

KP wasn't going to play the scramble around defense that we are playing, and his injuries weren't helping...

Bad things.
1)  We traded for the SAME money and the SAME problems, but spread out over two players with ZERO replacement of defense.  Even the offense categories of Bertans and Dinwiddie together don't even replace KP's production...that's real sad.  Usually on trades like this you get a couple of players who at least together are more, or are on good contracts...we got the worst of both worlds.
2)  Dinwiddie pretty much means we don't need Dragic, so it makes me wonder if they know he's going elsewhere.  Two less than what they once were low defense, scoring guards that need the ball in their hands...no need for both.  Of the two, if I'm right, we are stuck paying way more money to the worse player.
3)  We will pay them for longer than we pay KP.  Dinwiddie is the same length as KP and Bertans is a year longer.
4)  As I watch the Clippers, Zubac and centers like that will kill us....we really needed to upgrade in the 5 department, not get worse.
5)  Bertans is in the same boat as KP, missed about the same amount of games, is shooting 9% below his career average...and has gone down ever since he signed that big contract two years ago.  He was completely out of the rotation in Washington and is currently injured.
6)  Dinwiddie is a shell of his former self, coming off a major surgery, and apparently is an abrasive, unliked presence in the locker room.
7)  We are looking at paying major tax next season with arguably a worse team, if nothing changes.
8)  There is basically NO rim protection on the team now.

Good things
1)  Two smaller contracts are easier to move than one big one.
2)  We do have a third secondary creator, but like I said, that may mean no Dragic, through no fault of the Mavs.
3)  Dinwiddie's contract is only partially guaranteed in the third year, NOT unguaranteed as Locked On Mavs reported.  He's owed 10 million of his 18 mill in the last year of his contract.  That means if someone wants to get off the like 20-22 million player, they can trade for Dinwiddie, cut him and only be on the hook for 10 million.
4)  The team won't have to get KP involved, and if there were chemistry issues behind the scenes, we got rid of that.
5)  Maybe coach can get something out of the guys.

Now it's time to move on....they are about to be in our jerseys and good or bad, they are ours.  KP is gone, so go with God and let's go Mavs.

Excellent and fair summary.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/...9306725380

[Kammrath]

CUBAN:

“I think KP’s an incredible talent. But we needed that shooter [Bertans] and we needed another ball handler [Dinwiddie] who could create a shot, and unfortunately that was the only way we were going to get them,,” Cuban said before referencing the Mavericks’ 13-8 without Porzingis this season.

“It was that simple -- getting two guys who fill roles that we really needed, and the fact that we have played OK without KP. But I think that doesn’t take anything away from KP being a great talent, and I actually think he’s going to be better with the Wizards than he was with us.”

[dirkfansince1998]

If we can trust Cuban that tells us a lot about the way they viewed him and his role. He wasn´t the 2nd or 3rd option. He was just one of many guys next to Luka. Replaced by two guys that might be a better fit.