MISSING: Mavsluvr (his last picture)

[dirkfansince1998]

Things can be tricky coming from a position of authority.  You probably need to consider your moderation hat along with you "just one of the guys" hat when communicating.  

I get pretty fired up in conversations but at the end of the day, it's just fandom and nothing serious.  As much as I really like everyone here (even Scott), it's something I can easily walk away from if I'm getting frazzled.

This. I really don´t think anything @"mavsluvr" posted was over the top. A little bit of baiting and trolling is part of the game and this board would be a really boring place without it. We had worse situations and I would argue that we have a general tolerance level for stuff like this that is higher than anything @"mavsluvr" did.
Probably have been on the dishing and receiving end of worse posts myself. This is where the mod role comes into play. If something as small as this is already over the line mods need to enforce it all the time and if that is the case this board probably loses a lot of members. I understand that so far no mod action has taken place but I can easily understand why some people aren´t happy with the way Kam handled the situation.

No matter if Kam intended to use his powers. With great power comes great responsibility.

[BackToSquareOne]

My take is that mavsluvr was frequently supercilious and often used stats to support his prejudices rather than for illumination. On the other hand, Kamm's attitude towards KP seems little short of start raving bonkers to me. So ... mainly, as Tyler advises, I bite my tongue and post generic supportive emojis in the discord game threads.

[dirkfansince1998]

I generally differentiate between gamethread/discord and other discussions. One is always going to be more emotionally driven and stuff happens in the heat of the moment. Same for the ticker threads on draft night or the first day of free agency. May cooler heads prevail but sometimes I just cannot help myself.

[BasketballJones41]

Nobody asked but here’s my perspective. Multiple things can be true at once.

Kamm-is one of the very best things about this board. His understanding of advanced stats and all of the other knowledge that he brings to this board really enhances the experience here. On top of that he, and all of the other mods, are very fair and try to be hands off as much as possible from what I see. I don’t think he abused his powers in any way or asked Mavsluvr to leave. At least that’s not the way I took it. I might not agree that he was being full on trolled but it was enough that he didn’t like it and politely asked for it to stop which I don’t think is unreasonable. 

Mavsluvr-Is also one of the great things about this community. His post game analysis is legendary here. Most of his responses are very well articulated, thought out, and informative. I can understand his frustration about the particular subject matter. In fact I think this may be the only time I found myself disagreeing strongly with any of Kamms basketball opinions. Some of his dialogue about Luka does seem to be unnecessarily critical and comes off as a little over the top at times. But it’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. I don’t think there was any intentional trolling going on here. And I think that Mavsluvr was just joking around and having a good time. But if someone tells you you took it too far maybe it’s a good idea to dial it back no matter what your intentions were. I think that’s where Mavsluvr went wrong. 

At the end of the day I hope this blows over because these guys are franchise cornerstones on this board. They represent every bit of why this is the best online sports community. And on top of that they seem like a couple of genuinely good dudes. 

Not only is this town big enough for the both of them but it’s also a much better place with both of them here.

[Kammrath]

First message from Kamm: "My theory is that Luka can't and doesn't raise level of NBA level players"

That's the thing. What you put in quotes was never said by me and was never my opinion.

What I have taken issue with repeatedly is my actual opinion being misrepresented in blatant ways (what I am referring to when I say "strawman"). My opinion on Luka is nothing like it has been characterized to be in these interactions. And when I have tried to clarify I have not been listened to.

[BasketballJones41]

I generally differentiate between gamethread/discord and other discussions. One is always going to be more emotionally driven and stuff happens in the heat of the moment. Same for the ticker threads on draft night or the first day of free agency. May cooler heads prevail but sometimes I just cannot help myself.

This is a great point. For example we had a pretty big argument in the discord on Sunday that made this whole Kamm/Mavsluvr thing look like a nothing burger. Things got pretty chippy over there.

[michaeltex]

I'll chime in with an observation that both are bedrocks of most discussions here. They both have good takes, even if you disagree with them. ML could be a little snarky at times, but one has to be aware that written sarcasm can be interpreted poorly, even if you intended it in a more light hearted manner. At some point feelings get hurt (we may be adults, but we're still human) defensive perimeters are established and communication to get past the issue becomes very difficult. 

Kamm has definite opinions on some issues. He usually has some justification for how he feels, which is what makes his participate so valuable. If anything, he is sometimes overly insistent with a particular take. In particular, calling out Luka earlier in the season by citing bad +/- numbers, even in team wins. Although it was never stated by Kamm, the tone could be interpreted that DAL would be a better team without Luka. There is/was an opposing school of thought that that one stat didn't necessarily define what was wrong with the team or Luka. Almost everyone on both sides, though, agreed his conditioning and weight issues were worth addressing and were on the lookout for improvements as the season progressed. 

Personally, I think the board is a little poorer for ML's silence and would be poorer yet without Kamm. I'm hoping everyone gets past this and we can celebrate our team again. In MSG tomorrow and on to MEM for Friday. My brother is a Grizz fan, so I'm hoping DAL is on an 8-0 run after Friday!

[Scott41theMavs]

I think the conflict between them has a lot to do with philosophy. Kamm is going really hard at Luka. Much of what he has to say about him is valid, but it's going to be controversial, because you're talking about a generational talent who was first team All-NBA his second and third seasons in the league. Mavsluvr was pointing that out. Was he rude? I don't think so. I am on Kamm's side in the sense that I think everyone has the right to set their own boundaries generally speaking. However, in this specific instance, I am also on mavsluvr's side in that I would say that it's inappropriate to lay forth a very controversial perspective (even though it was probably correct in several instances!) and not expect some strong blowback. 

I would also tend to side with Kamm in the sense that mavsluvr has shown himself at every turn before this to be very much a grown man, but I would be saddened and disappointed in him if he never posts here again. He has every right to take a break, but the "take my ball and go home for good" approach wouldn't be very mature. I don't think Kamm owes mavsluvr an apology, but he would do well imho to respond more reasonably to criticism. I wish mavsluvr would just take a deep breath and come back home, sooner rather than later. We love ya, man!

[Kammrath]

but he would do well imho to respond more reasonably to criticism

For clarity: I am perfectly fine with people thinking my opinions are wrong, misguided, or even stupid (sometimes they are!). All I ask is that if my opinion be regarded as stupid, that it actually BE my opinion in the first place. That is all.

[cow]

I generally differentiate between gamethread/discord and other discussions. One is always going to be more emotionally driven and stuff happens in the heat of the moment. Same for the ticker threads on draft night or the first day of free agency. May cooler heads prevail but sometimes I just cannot help myself.

I've given up on discord.  While the block function is nice and all, it tends to be a lot less civil on the whole.  While I appreciate passion, things get taken way too far there for my liking.  I also detest Discord's format and readability so that made the decision of staying away all the easier.

As far as moderation here goes, I think things are done well.  Generally nothing needs to be moderated (kudos to our members) and when things to get out of hand, moderation will take place and it's explained why.  That community and moderation approach is the best we could hope for.  And I say that as someone who gets into their own feelings.  I've had a few dust ups over the years but I still like those dudes and we all communicate well after the spat.

---

For clarity: I am perfectly fine with people thinking my opinions are wrong, misguided, or even stupid (sometimes they are!). All I ask is that if my opinion be regarded as stupid, that it actually BE my opinion in the first place. That is all.

Sometimes?  Sometimes!?!?!?!?

[Kammrath]

Sometimes?  Sometimes!?!?!?!?

Ok....more often than not!!!

[cow]

...because you're talking about a generational talent.

I wish we could belay the generational talent talk.  Luka is great.  Luka has accomplished a lot.  Luka has the gifts, tools and traits to be an all time great but it seems like it would be better to hold of on the anointment oil until much later in his career.  And I can see the flip side of that.  It's easy to pick a part Luka's shortcomings and even easier to focus on them.  I think the thing to realize is that everyone knows he is great and those shortcomings are even more frustrating when they are correctable.  /$0.02

[Kammrath]

I wish we could belay the generational talent talk.

I can't believe you don't appreciate how lucky DAL is to have Luka!

[cow]

I can't believe you don't appreciate how lucky DAL is to have Luka!

[fifteenth]

Ok....more often than not!!!

Is that rare footage of Kam trying to jump on Cow's back?

[Kammrath]

Is that rare footage of Kam trying to jump on Cow's back?

Very rare. Because the one time I tried to best @"cow" in an argument this is what resulted:

[fifteenth]

Here's me hanging out with cow a while back

[cow]

I'm still waiting for the "cow was right" WCS apology thread.  And let's just hope everyone forgets how much I loved Bagley.

At least I can sleep at night being right about Millsap, Will The Thrill and THT.

[dirkfansince1998]

I'm still waiting for the "cow was right" WCS apology thread.  And let's just hope everyone forgets how much I loved Bagley.

At least I can sleep at night being right about Millsap, Will The Thrill and THT.

Is the THT debate already settled?

[cow]

Is the THT debate already settled?