MAVS 132, BLAZERS 117

[Mavs2021]

LOL at

That person knows how the internet works.

I have given up having this conversation here:

Me: Play Rookie X. Rookies need minutes to adjust to the league, gain confidence and improve.

Situation: Carlisle doesn´t play Rookie X.

Mavs fans: He ain´t ready.

Situation: Everybody gets injured/COVID. Rookie X plays and does well.

Mavs fans: Carlisle is a genius, prepared him for this moment. Now he is ready. No correlations between the injury/illness situation and his readiness, it´s purely all coincidental.

Situation: All veterans are healthy again. Rookie X is back collecting DNPs. 

Mavs fans: Apparently lost his readiness again and not prepared for the moment anymore. Carlisle will get him ready

Situation: Rookie gets released or traded for trash.

Rinse&repeat.

[mavsluvr]

If we can play undersized teams who don't play with a lot of physicality every game, sure.  Credit were credit is due, KP was great last night.  So was Green.  So was Powell.  Let's see them all continue to do this when the team is at full strength.  

On the whole, we've been playing a better brand of basketball with the team decimated.  Kidd has his work cut out for him once everyone is back.  Hopefully he can figure out why and keep the forward progress going.

Cato had an interesting slant in today's article on this. --

Tim puts a lot of blame for the Mavericks' lifeless offense on THJ, Bullock, and Maxi -- players he refers to as below-average passers who hesitate too long when windows emerge. He acknowledges that this keeps turnovers low, which was a fundamental for Carlisle, but it comes at the cost of having to repeatedly recycle possessions. 

Tim didn't want to make the discussion about Luka's conditioning issues, which he thinks have already been talked to death, but adds that Luka's lack of enthusiasm for the system is part of the problem. He suggests that these four players have not bought into Kidd's offense, and the result has been a "mushy" approach where Luka wants to run pick-and-rolls "until the icecap melts," while KP tries to post up directly in his path. 

He realizes that the more fundamental problem is the roster's lack of talent, rather than the coaching schemes. He doesn't suggest that Green, Frankie, Mo, and the emergency guys are any kind of real answer to that issue. He also doesn't suggest that Kidd's system (which is not all that different than Carlisle's) will necessarily make the team better. But he does suggest that this COVID interlude has given us a window into just how stagnant the Mavs offense has become, and what types of players might be helpful in changing it.

[SleepingHero]

Just got to say any team that makes Dwight Powell look like the next Shaq is in big trouble. COVID replacement players isn't an excuse when the other team also is out 7 guys.

[Mavs2021]

Cato had an interesting slant in today's article on this. --

Tim puts a lot of blame for the Mavericks' lifeless offense on THJ, Bullock, and Maxi -- players he refers to as below-average passers who hesitate too long when windows emerge. He acknowledges that this keeps turnovers low, which was a fundamental for Carlisle, but it comes at the cost of having to repeatedly recycle possessions. 

Tim didn't want to make the discussion about Luka's conditioning issues, which he thinks have already been talked to death, but adds that Luka's lack of enthusiasm for the system is part of the problem. He suggests that these four players have not bought into Kidd's offense, and the result has been a "mushy" approach where Luka wants to run pick-and-rolls "until the icecap melts," while KP tries to post up directly in his path. 

He realizes that the more fundamental problem is the roster's lack of talent, rather than the coaching schemes. He doesn't suggest that Green, Frankie, Mo, and the emergency guys are any kind of real answer to that issue. He also doesn't suggest that Kidd's system (which is not all that different than Carlisle's) will necessarily make the team better. But he does suggest that this COVID interlude has given us a window into just how stagnant the Mavs offense has become, and what types of players might be helpful in changing it.

Also fair to point out that nobody forces these other players to just stand around, when the ball is in Luka´s hands. There is simply more off-ball activity from the squad right now and it might have something to do with being younger, hungrier and more athletic.

[fifteenth]

That person knows how the internet works.

That person knows he cherry picked stats for a low volume player!!!

I like what I see with Josh, but my LOL was really more about statistics and arguments than basekball.

[vfromlmf]

There was a post yesterday showing him as a near-all star based on LEBRON or EPM (can't recall which)

I wonder if any doubt is starting to emerge among the trade-KP contingent. I wonder how many were also among the vocal trade-Dirk crowd after Nellie's "We Believe" Warriors embarrassed him in the playoffs? I know it all comes down to health for KP but I think it's time to acknowledge how well he's playing right now.

KP is number 21 among regulars according to EPM (estimated Plus Minus) at +3.5. He's no 6 among centers (only Jokic, Allen, Embiid, Townes and Gobert are higher) and no 4 among power forwards (only Giannis, KD and Draymond are higher). He's right there with Draymond who's at +3.6. If you're counting, that puts him at no 9 -- a top 10 big in the NBA.

KP is number 9 in the entire league, regardless of position, according to LEBRON at +3.41. 

All-in-one stats have their flaws but these are two of the "most trusted" according to one survey of league executives. 

Putting stats aside, he's clearly been great - and dominant at times - according to the eye test. I've been critical of using him as a PF but the defense has looked better recently and the spacing on offense is much improved. If KP's three starts to fall, watch out. Let's not forget a bunch of smart basketball people used to say KP has the talent to win an MVP someday. And he just turned 26.

[mavsluvr]

Also fair to point out that nobody forces these other players to just stand around, when the ball is in Luka´s hands. There is simply more off-ball activity from the squad right now and it might have something to do with being younger, hungrier and more athletic.

Are we sure about that, especially in the case of Bullock and Maxi? Coaches don't necessarily want catch-and-shoot guys scampering around the court. 

Agree that having players who are younger and more athletic on the court tends to result in more activity (whether effective or not).

[mavsluvr]

Luka is obviously a top tier star but he needs to change his style. The ball moving better without him is a damning indictment of flaws that have crept into his game. I don’t want to hear about assists when Westbrook has averaged a triple double. Take over the game for stretches but don’t hog the ball like a Westbrook.  I disagree with mavsluvr and some others who recently said that he can’t play like Jokic. He absolutely can.  Luka has vision and sees plays develop before they happen. Westbrook doesn’t. Sure some things that Jokic can do do due to his height Luka can’t but the pass from one side of the court to the opposite side and the handles, Jokic can’t compete there with Luka.

Hey, hakeem. 


Since you called me out by name, I guess I'll respond. Tbh, I'm not sure I know what you mean. If there's something we should discuss, will be happy to engage.

[mavsluvr]

I admit that I'm not normal.

Wow. Intriguing statement to place on a sports message board. 


Hope everything is ok, fif.

[Kammrath]

RE: Iztok

"Underrated parted was how Dwight Powell played defense in PNR vs Lillard."

Yep I said in my monologue to myself in the game thread that DP played great D during the game. He and FN were absolutely great dance partners in containing Lillard in the pick and roll.

[Kammrath]

I wonder if any doubt is starting to emerge among the trade-KP contingent

The basis of me being in "trade-KP" camp is that Luka and him don't play naturally well together. If you are building around Luka you need to trade KP no matter how well he starts playing in his own right IMO.

[fifteenth]

Wow. Intriguing statement to place on a sports message board. 


Hope everything is ok, fif.

All is well, pal. 

My confusing statement with no context was supposed to be part of the conversation below. My bad for not including the context!!

Great post. 

The reality, in my honest opinion, is that 100% of people, including all of us, would take the higher monetary offer. The difference in your example is like $20 million over the life of the contract, if I'm understanding you. That's what he will choose. The $20 million. It's easy for us to think of these guys' lives as abstractions, but basketball is their occupation and their dreams are about compensation and quality of life more than anything else.

Not to mention I doubt Brunson looks at it like he will be overmatched in a starting role.  Seems like the kind of guy that would relish that kind of opportunity rather than shy away from it.

His dad is a professional athlete so he should advise him to take the money 100 out of 100 times.  Injuries happen and this could be his last contract.

I admit that I'm not normal. But I wouldn't make my decision based on the money. Money would be in the equation, but so would other things. I'd be looking for a personal bet it that considered all parameters.

[SleepingHero]

RE: Iztok

"Underrated parted was how Dwight Powell played defense in PNR vs Lillard."

Yep I said in my monologue to myself in the game thread that DP played great D during the game. He and FN were absolutely great dance partners in containing Lillard in the pick and roll.

I also think Lillard never really punished Dwight or Frank. I felt like he was going through the motions the whole game, and the few times he did drive they were mainly frustration drives into 3 guys with a desperation heave.

Now I don't know if it's Portlands offensive system (with g-leaguers) that makes Lillard look like that or if Lillard is just mentally checked out of a losing team with no upside, but I felt like Lillard just didn't seem motivated the whole night.

I'm not trying to take away from Powell or Franks (or everyone else for that matter) great defense all night, they did play well. Just felt weird watching Lillard play passive and get swallowed up time and again.

[mavsluvr]

I also think Lillard never really punished Dwight or Frank. I felt like he was going through the motions the whole game, and the few times he did drive they were mainly frustration drives into 3 guys with a desperation heave.

Now I don't know if it's Portlands offensive system (with g-leaguers) that makes Lillard look like that or if Lillard is just mentally checked out of a losing team with no upside, but I felt like Lillard just didn't seem motivated the whole night.

I'm not trying to take away from Powell or Franks (or everyone else for that matter) great defense all night, they did play well. Just felt weird watching Lillard play passive and get swallowed up time and again.

I got this same feeling. 

I can't speak to what Lillard was actually thinking, but the bolded language describes the impression he gave, imho. I was disappointed, really, even though his passivity helped the Mavs to a win.

[dirkfansince1998]

Now I don't know if it's Portlands offensive system (with g-leaguers) that makes Lillard look like that or if Lillard is just mentally checked out of a losing team with no upside, but I felt like Lillard just didn't seem motivated the whole night.

Hasn´t been the same all season long. Still dealing with the lower ab injury that limited him during the olympics. Seems like playing through it made it worse.

[SleepingHero]

Hasn´t been the same all season long. Still dealing with the lower ab injury that limited him during the olympics. Seems like playing through it made it worse.

If Portland really felt secure in Lillard's loyalty they'd just rest him for the rest of the season and take the lost year. I think they're desperate because Lillard has quietly made it known he's not here for the long haul if he doesn't see results now.

[TXBamanut]

Also fair to point out that nobody forces these other players to just stand around, when the ball is in Luka´s hands. There is simply more off-ball activity from the squad right now and it might have something to do with being younger, hungrier and more athletic.

Actually this isn't necessarily true. Luka expects the guys to be in the 4 shots around the arc because that's part of how he makes those no look passes on his drives.  He passing to spots.

I've seen him get frustrated with guys not standing in their spots when he drives and tries the pass.

I agree that our guys are even more prone to that, but they also have more factors that don't encourage them to move readily.

Also, Luka just stands around without the ball a lot.  He does do that fake and then backdoor for the layup thing, but he also gets disinterested of sorts when he doesn't have the ball.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I wonder if any doubt is starting to emerge among the trade-KP contingent. I wonder how many were also among the vocal trade-Dirk crowd after Nellie's "We Believe" Warriors embarrassed him in the playoffs? I know it all comes down to health for KP but I think it's time to acknowledge how well he's playing right now.

KP is number 21 among regulars according to EPM (estimated Plus Minus) at +3.5. He's no 6 among centers (only Jokic, Allen, Embiid, Townes and Gobert are higher) and no 4 among power forwards (only Giannis, KD and Draymond are higher). He's right there with Draymond who's at +3.6. If you're counting, that puts him at no 9 -- a top 10 big in the NBA.

KP is number 9 in the entire league, regardless of position, according to LEBRON at +3.41. 

All-in-one stats have their flaws but these are two of the "most trusted" according to one survey of league executives. 

Putting stats aside, he's clearly been great - and dominant at times - according to the eye test. I've been critical of using him as a PF but the defense has looked better recently and the spacing on offense is much improved. If KP's three starts to fall, watch out. Let's not forget a bunch of smart basketball people used to say KP has the talent to win an MVP someday. And he just turned 26.

The number one most used lineup that KP has appeared in has occurred in only 11 games (number two is only five games).  So, it is difficult for us to "know" anything.

Right now, KP has a slightly negative on-court rating and Luka has a very negative on-court rating.  Kamm has told us each sucks less when not playing with the other one.  We've had various scapegoats.  First it was Powell clogging up the lane.  But, KP is positive when on-court with Powell (and negative when paired with Luka, Brunson, THJ, Maxi and Willie).  Then it was THJ's D (so he was moved to the bench).  After last night it is our lack of ball movement (you have to be careful here as you border on sacrilege if you infer Luka...even fat Luka...may be partially to blame).

There are some among us who look at KP and believe he's the problem.  Where he likes the ball directly impacts Luka's effectiveness.  But, the stats say KP is a good player again.  Should we keep letting KP be KP even if it hurts Luka?  None of this is easy to deduce when only working with 11 games of data.  Shouldn't Luka and Kidd be expected to figure this all out since KP is clearly "back"?  Or, is there an overlap where one always cancels out the highest and best use of the other?

My position on KP has been that when he's good, he's too good to trade and when he's bad (or injured), he can't be traded because of the combination of salary and injury history.  We either need Kidd/Luka to figure this out or we need to move on from KP.  It is nice to have KP playing well because it at least gives you options.  I'm starting to rethink the first part of my position and looking for teams that might could use this version of KP.  I'm not confident we will ever get this version of KP alongside Luka the top-5 guy that he's been the last two seasons.

[mavsluvr]

My position on KP has been that when he's good, he's too good to trade and when he's bad (or injured), he can't be traded because of the combination of salary and injury history.  We either need Kidd/Luka to figure this out or we need to move on from KP.  It is nice to have KP playing well because it at least gives you options.  I'm starting to rethink the first part of my position and looking for teams that might could use this version of KP.  I'm not confident we will ever get this version of KP alongside Luka the top-5 guy that he's been the last two seasons.

Last night's game might be the poster child for Cuban's coming position that, as the smartest guy in the room, he always knew that KP was the guy to build around, not Luka.

[WildArkieBoy]

Last night's game might be the poster child for Cuban's coming position that, as the smartest guy in the room, he always knew that KP was the guy to build around, not Luka.

or, Kidd earning his money with an effective showcasing.