Poll: Brunson:
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65.22%
30 65.22%
Bench
8.70%
4 8.70%
Trade
26.09%
12 26.09%
Total 46 vote(s) 100%
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BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering
Question...how common do you think it is for an agent to hear from another teams GM that his current team is aggressively trying to move him?   It probably happens.....maybe often.   The Brunson situation is unique with his agent being Leon Rose' son.    So, if Dallas was pretty aggressive checking in with the Knicks during last season, I am sure Jalen's agent knew about it.  Therefore Jalen probably did as well.    MIght have been a small piece in Jalen not having full trust he would have been a part of our long term plans if he resigned here.  

I am sure agents get wind when talks turn serious, but I wonder how often they get feedback from other teams when teams inquire about players.
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This one isn't on someone tampering, it's on the Mavs 100%. The FACT that the Mavs told Brunson or his people they didn't want to commit to an extension until AFTER the trade deadline -- the obvious reason being they needed to be able to shop him with a small contract -- left no mystery they were viewing him as a "trade asset" rather than as an integral part of the team's future.
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(08-04-2022, 03:03 PM)F Gump Wrote: This one isn't on someone tampering, it's on the Mavs 100%. The FACT that the Mavs told Brunson or his people they didn't want to commit to an extension until AFTER the trade deadline -- the obvious reason being they needed to be able to shop him with a small contract -- left no mystery they were viewing him as a "trade asset" rather than as an integral part of the team's future.

In the Mavs' defense, they weren't wrong to not see him as part of the longterm plans. A Luka-Brunson backcourt was never going to win a championship. But they needed him as an asset. Their biggest screw-up was not signing him to the extension early. They didn't trust Donnie's scouting, what they had already seen from Brunson, and moreover misjudged the market.

I guess the upside is that I'm no longer mad at Brunson at all. He got his Brinks truck. More power to him. If the Knicks deceived him by making him believe that he was going to be the alpha when they clearly don't believe that (see DM pursuit), he can cry all the way to the bank.
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(08-04-2022, 03:56 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: A Luka-Brunson backcourt was never going to win a championship.

I do not concur.
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(08-04-2022, 04:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I do not concur.

Then, for once, you are wrong. Actually, for twice. Milwaukee isn't that bad.
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(08-04-2022, 03:56 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: In the Mavs' defense, they weren't wrong to not see him as part of the longterm plans. A Luka-Brunson backcourt was never going to win a championship. But they needed him as an asset. Their biggest screw-up was not signing him to the extension early. They didn't trust Donnie's scouting, what they had already seen from Brunson, and moreover misjudged the market.

I guess the upside is that I'm no longer mad at Brunson at all. He got his Brinks truck. More power to him. If the Knicks deceived him by making him believe that he was going to be the alpha when they clearly don't believe that (see DM pursuit), he can cry all the way to the bank.

Not much of a Mavs defense as the final mistake was not trading him after the "biggest screw-up".  Brunson's handling throughout should be a case study in player mismanagement.
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https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...7490394113
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(08-04-2022, 06:28 PM)cow Wrote: Not much of a Mavs defense as the final mistake was not trading him after the "biggest screw-up".  Brunson's handling throughout should be a case study in player mismanagement.

I don't think we make the conference finals if we had traded him midseason, and I don't think anyone would have given us a single first rounder for him before what he did in the playoffs.  A 2nd rounder and a player another team didn't want is probably the best you were getting for Brunson at the deadline, I think the experience we had in the playoffs is more valuable to the teams growth than a 2nd round pick.
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(08-20-2022, 10:18 AM)Benskix2 Wrote: A 2nd rounder and a player another team didn't want is probably the best you were getting for Brunson at the deadline, I think the experience we had in the playoffs is more valuable to the teams growth than a 2nd round pick.

I totally agree with your conclusion… If your assumption about what he was worth at the deadline is correct. The thing is, I just can’t reconcile myself with the idea that a guy worth 26 million per year over the summer got there from scratch based on two playoff series. I think he was probably worth MORE this summer than he was at the deadline, but I don’t agree that he was worth nothing at that time to teams who would have wanted to re-sign him. As a rental, sure.

I guess without knowing what offers they actually had, we’ll never know. Either way, it’s not a rationalization I’m comfortable with in terms of letting them off the hook for this travesty. Still, to your overall point, yes, the deep playoff run was of more benefit to this team than a journeyman player and a second round pick.
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(08-20-2022, 04:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I totally agree with your conclusion… If your assumption about what he was worth at the deadline is correct. The thing is, I just can’t reconcile myself with the idea that a guy worth 26 million per year over the summer got there from scratch based on two playoff series. I think he was probably worth MORE this summer than he was at the deadline, but I don’t agree that he was worth nothing at that time to teams who would have wanted to re-sign him. As a rental, sure.

I guess without knowing what offers they actually had, we’ll never know. Either way, it’s not a rationalization I’m comfortable with in terms of letting them off the hook for this travesty. Still, to your overall point, yes, the deep playoff run was of more benefit to this team than a journeyman player and a second round pick.

I think the assumption of his value at the trade deadline is probably correct. Brunson's value didn't suddenly go from nothing to 26 million, it was that his trade value didn't come close to his actual value due to a trading team not having any extra control over whether or not he would resign (unless a team wanted to offer the max and I don't think that was a realistic possibility). Even if Team X wanted to trade for him in order to sign him long term then why trade anything of value if you could just sign him in the summer? At least that's my understanding of the situation, but I could be misreading or misunderstanding something.

And by no means am I trying to absolve the Mavs here, there were definitely mistakes made. But I can see how they weren't able to get good offers at the trade deadline despite Brunson's obvious talent at the time and his resulting large contract.
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(08-20-2022, 06:40 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: And by no means am I trying to absolve the Mavs here, there were definitely mistakes made. But I can see how they weren't able to get good offers at the trade deadline despite Brunson's obvious talent at the time and his resulting large contract.


I'm still pretty skeptical about this, but let me just say that if you're right, the mistake of not extending him over the summer is even worse, imo.
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(08-20-2022, 06:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I'm still pretty skeptical about this, but let me just say that if you're right, the mistake of not extending him over the summer is even worse, imo.

Yeah, looking back I think that was the time to get something done from the Mavs perspective (outside of making his contract with a RFA option). Even if there were concerns about Brunson's playoff performance to that point (fair or not) an extended Brunson would be great value and worth more than the meager potential trade assets and the risk of him leaving imo. That to me was a big miss by the Mavs FO.
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(08-20-2022, 07:22 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: Yeah, looking back I think that was the time to get something done from the Mavs perspective (outside of making his contract with a RFA option). Even if there were concerns about Brunson's playoff performance to that point (fair or not) an extended Brunson would be great value and worth more than the meager potential trade assets and the risk of him leaving imo. That to me was a big miss by the Mavs FO.

I can't speak for anyone else, least of all the Mavs, but I never doubted the kid's talent (after about his second season). I think there was reason to question his FIT with Luka until these last playoffs, but in their position, I don't think that's a reason not to pay someone. Get him locked in and wait for the opportunity to turn him into something that fits better. 

It's all such a huge bummer.
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(08-20-2022, 07:28 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I can't speak for anyone else, least of all the Mavs, but I never doubted the kid's talent (after about his second season). I think there was reason to question his FIT with Luka until these last playoffs, but in their position, I don't think that's a reason not to pay someone. Get him locked in and wait for the opportunity to turn him into something that fits better. 

It's all such a huge bummer.

Yep, totally agree
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I'm in the minority that thinks that while the Mavs had to do better than this (it's looking like general ineptness when you can't figure out how to keep a player you drafted and developed) that there was never an objectively good time they could have extended him as an alternative.

It doesn't take any more than a few minutes to review the earlier parts of this very thread and see that Brunson entered the season with MASSIVE doubts of his future worth and desirability here (because he wasn't a starter and the fit was tricky, and he had been a playoff flop). In that offseason you also had all the iffiness of a new regime, and how to fit in all the players with KP playing the 4, another big on the floor, and so on.

Then almost right out of the gate in the fall, he got some starts, looked really good, and the conventional wisdom here was that he would not take the max extension the Mavs could offer. This is by Nov, not after the turn of the year.

The idea that the Mavs could have gotten him on such an extension in early 2022, I think it was just BS-ery. I know who said it, and who wrote it, and I really think both were playing to a common agenda in which no hard questions were asked and a transparently-nonsensical story got circulated. There's no way JB would have done that, and he's never said that he would have (only that it would have been nice to get the offer, but never that he was willing to sign at that number).

Then, he did escalate his value in the playoffs. MASSIVELY. Whether his size and skill set would be able to be useful in the playoffs was the biggest question mark on him, that could not be answered without playoff games, and his performance raised his value through the roof. It can happen. He is not the first player to get paid an enormous number (that dwarfs all prior expectations) that is being justified primarily because of his playoff run.
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(08-04-2022, 04:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Then, for once, you are wrong. Actually, for twice. Milwaukee isn't that bad.

The Mavs certainly could win a title with a Luka-Brunson tandem. Hell, they almost won it this year. The reason they didn’t wasn’t Brunson, it was simply that they couldn’t compete with GS in the paint, particularly on the boards. I really would have liked to see what this team could do after shoring up the interior this off-season. As it is, all they’ve done is play whack a mole, at best.
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I find RJ Barrett fascinating to see what plays out with him.  I agree, he would probably not be an ideal target for the Jazz with his pending contract coming up.    Barrett still needs to improve and is not very efficient and likes to have the ball a lot.   I think he is eventually an all star.  Maybe not 5+ all star games but at least a few.   

If the Knicks get Mitchell and keep Barrett it will be interesting what happens there.   With Mitchellat 30 plus per year and Jalen at 25 plus, do they really want to pay near max price for Barrett.  I can tell you pretty clearly his agency is going to look for a salary closer to Mitchell than Jalen, but definitely above Jalen's.    

I am sure Barrett will hold some trade value to teams, but I wonder how much with his contract close to being up.   From what I understand, there will be a lot of teams with salary cap room next year.  Does one offer Barrett a max contract?   I would assume the Knicks would match to not lose the asset but is 3 ball dependent guards with big money a winning formula for the Knicks?  

If the Knicks get Mitchell I think they will be very entertaining, but the next couple moves after that will really show if they can eventually break into the top 4 in the East.
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(08-20-2022, 10:49 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: As it is, all they’ve done is play whack a mole, at best.


What a perfect way of expressing it.
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I don't have the heart to listen to this...in the first minute they suggest the Mavs were actually faced with a decision regarding trading Brunson to move up for Halliburton. Clearly, not doing this was beyond stupid if that choice actually existed. If someone with thicker skin than me can bear to listen and confirm, I'd appreciate it. 

https://youtu.be/mgrHjjhZWWs
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(08-24-2022, 07:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't have the heart to listen to this...in the first minute they suggest the Mavs were actually faced with a decision regarding trading Brunson to move up for Halliburton. 

That's not what they are saying. They repeated that (as we all have heard long ago) that the Mavs TRIED to trade up, and couldn't find a team who was willing to trade down. And now they are playing the alternate reality game, where what if some team had said yes and the Mavs ended up with Halliburton not Brunson.
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