TAKE DAT WIT YOU 10/22

[mavsluvr]

This is a known pattern for entrepreneurial startups. A person or small team has a business idea that involves some new innovation to access markets with a new product or service. It takes hard work and a few iterations to get the rough edges smoothed out, but eventually you have a demand-creating enterprise that then goes into a growth phase and provides financial rewards for the startup team. This is an exciting time and the startup guys look like geniuses (not saying they aren't).


Eventually, the business gets big enough that you have to invest in specific skills to just keep it running day-to-day, never mind continued growth. That's when you either bring in professional management and let them run the business or you sell it to another organization with those skills/systems/processes in place. 

IMO, Cuban likes the first part, the rush that comes with starting something new and see it take root and grow. I think that's why he likes doing "Shark Tank". Nothing wrong with that, but an NBA team is not a growth business and requires specific skills and knowledge just to be functional. If he has truly empowered Nico & Co. to run the team, then it is a good sign. But if you see more off the cuff decisions and head scratching moves, then it will be apparent that nothing has changed.

Very well put. 

Just a gloss on the observation that it is a good sign if Cubes has empowered Nico. I agree that it is a good sign, in the sense of a general indication that Cuban is ready to take a more professional approach. 

Taking it a little further, we really don't know whether empowering Nico in particular is good or not, because he has never done the job before. By all accounts, he has great skills in the organizing and management areas, which the Mavs are definitely in need of. However, by his own admission, he knew nothing at all about the roster construction side of the job. 

I consider it a bit discouraging that, as far as we know, the organization still has no one with a proven track record of success at drafting and roster construction. Such a person would still report to Nico, or maybe Cuban if he wants to maintain that degree of control. Heck, maybe Cuban considers himself to be that person.   Until they are willing to hire and rely on people who have professional skills and experience at their jobs, I fear they are doomed to repeat history.

[Mapka]

Very well put. 

Just a gloss on the observation that it is a good sign if Cubes has empowered Nico. I agree that it is a good sign, in the sense of a general indication that Cuban is ready to take a more professional approach. 

Taking it a little further, we really don't know whether empowering Nico in particular is good or not, because he has never done the job before. By all accounts, he has great skills in the organizing and management areas, which the Mavs are definitely in need of. However, by his own admission, he knew nothing at all about the roster construction side of the job. 

I consider it a bit discouraging that, as far as we know, the organization still has no one with a proven track record of success at drafting and roster construction. Such a person would still report to Nico, or maybe Cuban if he wants to maintain that degree of control. Heck, maybe Cuban considers himself to be that person.   Until they are willing to hire and rely on people who have professional skills and experience at their jobs, I fear they are doomed to repeat history.

I think the Mavs are business to Cuban, but they are also something important to his heart. He won´t let professionalism take the family feeling out of the franchise.
And I think that is something good. I don´t want the Mavs to be as cold as the Celtics or as ruthless as the 76ers or OKC or as careless as the rockets.

[ItsGoTime]

I think there is a lot of clinging to the RC mindset going on with the guys and still some around here.
RC is gone, he’s not coming back. Please adjust your thinking and expectations based on that fact!

[mavsluvr]

Some of the Mavs media are making much of Luka's seeming lack of buy-in to the effort to institute a more egalitarian offense. They note that when he is playing off the ball, he is mostly standing around. Drawing off a defender, but not cutting and otherwise moving around, as a good off-ball guard would normally do. Also, that he was VERY upset at halftime of the Raptors game, and came out after halftime and reverted to the heliocentric offense in a (successful) effort to salvage the match. 

I don't know how much should be made of this at this early point in the season, but I think it bears watching.

[omahen]

Also, that he was VERY upset at halftime of the Raptors game

Well to his defense, I was too. Offense was total crap for the whole Atlanta game and first half of Toronto one. 

lack of buy-in to the effort to institute a more egalitarian offense

I think the point has been made several times over the forum - you have to have players for so called egalitarian offense. Thinking that DFS would create while Luka would be running around like crazy trying to beat his defender off ball to receive a timely pass from DFS is silly. Its a waste of assets. The whole point of egalitarian offense is to take a bit of load from Luka, meaning someone else creates while Luka rests spreading the floor.

[mavsluvr]

Well to his defense, I was too. Offense was total crap for the whole Atlanta game and first half of Toronto one. 




I think the point has been made several times over the forum - you have to have players for so called egalitarian offense. Thinking that DFS would create while Luka would be running around like crazy trying to beat his defender off ball to receive a timely pass from DFS is silly. Its a waste of assets. The whole point of egalitarian offense is to take a bit of load from Luka, meaning someone else creates while Luka rests spreading the floor.

Good observation. If the goal is to take the ball out of Luka's hands, you need someone who can do something with it. It might be difficult to sell Luka on the plan while the difference in quality between him and the rest of team is such a gaping chasm. 

[audiosway]

Very well put. 

Just a gloss on the observation that it is a good sign if Cubes has empowered Nico. I agree that it is a good sign, in the sense of a general indication that Cuban is ready to take a more professional approach. 

Taking it a little further, we really don't know whether empowering Nico in particular is good or not, because he has never done the job before. By all accounts, he has great skills in the organizing and management areas, which the Mavs are definitely in need of. However, by his own admission, he knew nothing at all about the roster construction side of the job. 

I consider it a bit discouraging that, as far as we know, the organization still has no one with a proven track record of success at drafting and roster construction. Such a person would still report to Nico, or maybe Cuban if he wants to maintain that degree of control. Heck, maybe Cuban considers himself to be that person.   Until they are willing to hire and rely on people who have professional skills and experience at their jobs, I fear they are doomed to repeat history.

This is a really good point. And that's really what concerns me. Cuban had two very good evaluators of talent and yet let them go. Say what you want but Donnie and Rick knew talent. Who knows why the current team doesn't have more talent on it. (Although, I really think that there has been a terrible use of assets up until the DSJ draft. They had a good couple of years of team building and drafts there by adding DSJ (KP, THJ), Luka, Maxi, Brunson, etc.) It feels like there is no one on the team now that is a proven commodity of talent evaluation. That to me a doomed to repeat previous failures.

Some of the Mavs media are making much of Luka's seeming lack of buy-in to the effort to institute a more egalitarian offense. They note that when he is playing off the ball, he is mostly standing around. Drawing off a defender, but not cutting and otherwise moving around, as a good off-ball guard would normally do. Also, that he was VERY upset at halftime of the Raptors game, and came out after halftime and reverted to the heliocentric offense in a (successful) effort to salvage the match. 

I don't know how much should be made of this at this early point in the season, but I think it bears watching.

Luka isn't stupid. He is an incredibly smart kid with that MJ or Kobe drive to win. If he hadn't taken over when he did that Raptors game would have been a loss as well. I agree that they do need to pass the ball more. However, without another ball handler capable of creating shots for themselves or someone else it's really dumb to move Luka off the ball. I can see why he would be frustrated.

If it was my team I would be trying to build up KP's value to move him at the TDL if a deal is there. He has some good things he can do. However, I don't think he's a championship caliber 2nd option. He wants to be in the post and he's not elite at it. Rick was using him the way he should be used. He hated it.

My key acquisition targets would be primary ball handler 1st and defenders next. That may be what they are doing. I'm not sure. I just think it was a little naive for them to set their sights on Lowry then Dragic. Both guys that had very little chance to get. Sure Dragic would come to Dallas. But, there is that thing of not really having assets and him being under contract. There were other players that were available and can create. Maybe not creators at a championship level. But, better than currently on this roster.

Aside from what Cuban and by extension Donnie would always say about keeping the powder dry...Dry powder doesn't create buckets. And when John Wall and CP3 get moved on those massive deals they had...players can ALWAYS be moved.

[hakeemfaan]

Who cares what Kidd is asking the team to do might be outside their comfort zone and capabilities?  The offense that everyone is lamenting over was a soft offense. It was never going to translate well as the team moved deeper into the playoffs. 

Do we want some simple pleasures in the regular season or have the team playing a style that is better in the long run?  Was the triangle really the best offense to build around MJ?  Systems generally cater to the team as a whole with the stud also getting their chances. As Phil said though all systems are meant for 3 quarters. In the 4th the stars will take over. Last year Luka noticeably got tired in the 4th in the playoffs. We have to try something different. 

Yes we may not have the personnel to run either of these options, but at least this keeps Luka a bit fresher. It also hopefully instills in him a discipline that everything need not run through him every time he is on the court. In the 4th? Yes. Don’t need that every single possession he is on the court.

[mavsluvr]

Aside from what Cuban and by extension Donnie would always say about keeping the powder dry...Dry powder doesn't create buckets. And when John Wall and CP3 get moved on those massive deals they had...players can ALWAYS be moved.

It is more than arguable that 10 years of dry powder has demonstrated that this is not an ideal way to build a roster, particularly in a non-destination city. 


I heard one of the mavs media with sources in the front office recently report that Cuban still pretty much holds to his original point of view. In negotiating trades, he is reportedly happy to wheel and deal with draft compensation, but is very reluctant to take on salary, since he prefers to keep his cap space free. Perhaps this situation will have to change now.

[mavsluvr]

Who cares what Kidd is asking the team to do might be outside their comfort zone and capabilities?  The offense that everyone is lamenting over was a soft offense. It was never going to translate well as the team moved deeper into the playoffs. 

Do we want some simple pleasures in the regular season or have the team playing a style that is better in the long run?  Was the triangle really the best offense to build around MJ?  Systems generally cater to the team as a whole with the stud also getting their chances. As Phil said though all systems are meant for 3 quarters. In the 4th the stars will take over. Last year Luka noticeably got tired in the 4th in the playoffs. We have to try something different. 

Yes we may not have the personnel to run either of these options, but at least this keeps Luka a bit fresher. It also hopefully instills in him a discipline that everything need not run through him every time he is on the court. In the 4th? Yes. Don’t need that every single possession he is on the court.

Totally reasonable point of view. We have all seen Luka visibly run out of gas at the ends of games. 

I think you have put your finger on the rub. Convincing Luka to buy into this idea. I can see Luka being fine with this as long as it is actually working. I am not so sure he is ever going to be agreeable to losing games, even for the sake of keeping him fresh, so that they can run the offense through DFS, or Josh Green, or whoever. 

I think they desperately need one or more players who are competent to do what is necessary to take the ball out of Luka's hands and still remain competitive.  In the meantime, if they need to rest him, they might have to resort to just holding him out of a game every now and then. Having the current situation drag on for the rest of the season is not a pleasant prospect. But who knows, maybe they'll surprise us and rise to the occasion.

[KillerLeft]

The offense that everyone is lamenting over was a soft offense. It was never going to translate well as the team moved deeper into the playoffs. 

Strong disagree. 

Two years ago, that offense was at its best (historically) during the regular season and then the young team wasn't capable of producing in the clutch against the good teams when it mattered (over generalization, but fair, imo). 

Last year, once things got going after the covid debacle, I felt like they made progress in that area. 

I came away from last season thinking they needed another creator (or two) and some more shooting (Bullock and Brown were good choices, imo), not that they needed to rethink the entire offensive approach. Further, we have seen 5 1/2 awful quarters of offensive basketball and 2 1/2 decent ones, so far, and it sure seemed to me that they came out of the halftime locker room in Toronto playing something much more similar to the system you're saying is a dead end. To relieving success, I might add. 

Improved spacing is not "soft." It's smart. The point of the offense wasn't for Luka to do everything, it was for the guy through whom the offense was running to have space to operate. Luka was just the only one who do could get things done to a winning effect (although that same "soft" system sure had Brunson looking like a world beater at times, too). If you want to give KP post and extended free throw line touches, fine. I wouldn't go that way, but fine. Just for the love of God, get everyone out of his way so he has a chance, yeah?

[dirkfansince1998]

Improved spacing is not "soft." It's smart. The point of the offense wasn't for Luka to do everything, it was for the guy through whom the offense was running to have space to operate. Luka was just the only one who do could get things done to a winning effect (although that same "soft" system sure had Brunson looking like a world beater at times, too). If you want to give KP post and extended free throw line touches, fine. I wouldn't go that way, but fine. Just for the love of God, get everyone out of his way so he has a chance, yeah?

This. If you want to post up KP. Try it. But don´t park Powell in the dunkers spot and another player in the short side corner. Need 4-out spacing as the base for those kind of plays. And that doesn´t meant that players aren´t allowed to move. A well timed cut is a great option. But the cut itself needs the spacing even more than KPs post up attempt. Right now the Mavs are just clogging the paint. KP in the post. Powell in the dunkers spot. DFS cutting. That´s never going to work.

[ItsGoTime]

Say what you want but Donnie and Rick knew talent. Who knows why the current team doesn't have more talent on it.

I think you said all you needed to answer your question.

[KillerLeft]

A well timed cut is a great option. But the cut itself needs the spacing even more than KPs post up attempt. Right now the Mavs are just clogging the paint. KP in the post. Powell in the dunkers spot. DFS cutting. That´s never going to work.

[audiosway]

I think you said all you needed to answer your question.

Did I though? Donnie drafted Dirk, Luka, Brunson, turned DSJ into KP. He put together the title team, he brought Nash over from Phx, etc. There is no doubt that the guy knew talent. However, according to reports he was being overridden at times all throughout his tenure with the Mavs. Timmy Mac is saying Cuban gave Chandler Parsons more say than Donnie for a while. Then, Donnie drafted Luka, Brunson, tried to draft Giannis, etc. Then, Cuban stepped back in again and brought in Harlabob to once again override the basketball guys.

I know we can't get rid of Cuban but wow I wish he would see that being smart for him would mean letting basketball people do their job.

[ItsGoTime]

Did I though? Donnie drafted Dirk, Luka, Brunson, turned DSJ into KP. He put together the title team, he brought Nash over from Phx, etc. There is no doubt that the guy knew talent. However, according to reports he was being overridden at times all throughout his tenure with the Mavs. Timmy Mac is saying Cuban gave Chandler Parsons more say than Donnie for a while. Then, Donnie drafted Luka, Brunson, tried to draft Giannis, etc. Then, Cuban stepped back in again and brought in Harlabob to once again override the basketball guys.

I know we can't get rid of Cuban but wow I wish he would see that being smart for him would mean letting basketball people do their job.

So Donnie wouldn’t have it out with Cuban and instead decided to just collect a paycheck for the last 12-13 years he should be exonerated from all the other transactions that were completed for forever. I don’t buy Donnie being a hands down great talent evaluator, otherwise Dirk would have multiple championships and we’d be in contention talks now with an MVP candidate.

[Kammrath]

I don’t buy Donnie being a hands down great talent evaluator

Yeah I think evidence points to Donnie being very mediocre AND it is really impossible to know who really gets the credit for the Mavs good moves anyway. If people are saying Cuban has always been the actual GM then Cuban should actually get that credit.