HAWKS 113, MAVS 87

[vfromlmf]

Game felt like all the attention was on the defense and everyone had free rein to do whatever they wanted to do on offense. 

Defense looked much more active but undisciplined

Offense looked disastrous. Carlisle was extremely good and carving out niches for role players and limiting them to the things they do well. The flood gates were opened last night and those same role players ventured well outside the niche Carlisle carved out for them ... and it didn't look good at all. 

It's only one game, but I'm concerned if efficiency among big-minute role players falls this team will be in big trouble.

[KillerLeft]

Game felt like all the attention was on the defense and everyone had free rein to do whatever they wanted to do on offense. 

Agreed.

[Kammrath]

Game felt like all the attention was on the defense and everyone had free rein to do whatever they wanted to do on offense. 

Kidd said during preseason that they hadn't even gotten to offense yet and were focusing totally on D at this point.

[cow]

Wish we would have overpaid D12 for games like this.

[audiosway]

The paint was PACKED with Hawks all night because Dallas' offensive spacing was pretty rough, imo. Looked like the 2011 offense, not the 2021 offense. 

A lot of this. That's the reason why Rick had KP pulling his man out to the perimeter. You can't have a team of guards driving the paint when you have a big man playing low post ball. You can't have it both ways. So far, Kidd's plan of letting KP post up only works if he is effective down there and you play a slower style.

I was afraid of seeing this happen. That's the reason not many teams are playing bigs much anymore. It's more of a guard driving league. The bigs play the perimeter to create space by pulling their men out of the paint.

[MrGoat]

Finally got a chance to sit down and watch it. We're still starting Powell? I thought RC was gone. Bad energy in this one, hope to see that addressed in the next game.

[MangaAfterDark]

I cant imagine Kidd giving this lineup that long of a leash? The lineup announcement in the preseason sounded like he was not married to this grouping

[Kammrath]

Bad energy in this one

I thought they had good energy out of the gate and competed throughout the first half....but they got "punched in the mouth" with ATL's physicality and could not match it.

[Chicagojk]

There was certainly not a lot to like last night but I am on team patience.  It may get rocky early.   It may be rocky for the whole ride, but I am wiling to wait it out.    Rick was a very good coach.  I had issue with his last year here, but thought he overperformed every year with the talent he was given for almost every year he was here.   Some players are going to perform better under Rick then the do with Jason.  Hopefully it is not extreme and hopefully some also perform better with Jason.   

Maybe not the main reason Jason was hired but a very important one is to get a better playing KP.    For either a long term fit her or to move in the future.    Having him be a second to Luka and play well off on Luka will be the biggest thing to look for this year.   I think most of us didn't like the offseason moves.   Not so say they didn't pick up solid players but I think we can all agree this team really needs another top 3 player.   But if KP plays better this year, Luka stays a top 5 player, and Jalen and Hardaway play to their potential, this team only needs 3-4 of their role players to do role player things (Maxi, DFS, Bullock, Brown, Powell, Green).   Those guys are capable of playing those roles.    There is not a lot of wiggle room though if KP does not improve his play.   

I will also be interested to see how Bullock gets his minutes.   He got 15 minutes last night and I didn't really notice him much when he was out there.   I hope Jalen doesn't lose minutes to him, but it wouldn't shock me to see if he takes some of Powell or Maxi minutes depending on the matchup.

[TXBamanut]

I'm sorry, guys, there's just too many armchair GMs and coaches (not on this board, but in the Twitter sphere) who seem to need to freakout and proclaim themselves the lone voice of reason.

I'm just not doing that...it's one game.  We see this 5 games in a row without improvement, then I'll be a little more concerned.  I'll give it time...don't ahve to like it, but that had the feel of NOTHING could go right last night.

Freakin' Gorqui Dieng was hitting threes...this dude couldn't hit a 10 foot shot 3 years ago, so naw, I'm chunking that into the "one in a million" category right now.  I need more stinkers to actually give it a good go.

The truth is that if the Mavs hit 38% the 1st half instead of 31% and it's a different look and feel going into the 3rd and they probably do a whole lot better.  So much of these things are feel, emotion and game situation, that one game is pretty much meaningless to me.

[burekemde]

I just found some examples of Atlanta overprotecting the paint, all examples of Hawks stopping Mavs on all these plays, but this game is full of these situations -  even when we managed to score. The Hawks defense was just better positioned than Mavs offense. Luka was getting the ball out of these situations to perimeter most of the game, but the open shots were just not being made from outside. The way Hawks were defending, the Mavs should have spaced this a lot better and then these open shots would have been much more open.

- Luka is getting by Hunter, at this stage it would have been unrecovarable for Hunter, but like most of the game he needs to slow down at this point, if not to run directly into another Hawk defender underneath. There is not only 1 double team - but three players in the paint waiting at Luka. How about that THJ sits in the corner and does not allow Bogdanovic to put pressure on Luka? Where the hell is KP running, what is that movement? What is DP doing? Better to have DFS there at PF spacing out or Maxi. The way the offense is positioned is just helping the opponents defense.



- Luka is going past Hunter and again this would be unrecoverable situation and a basket in the paint. But another Hawk defender is waiting for Luka here. Again that's fine, we did often punish these kind of double teams in the past, why not now? What kind of spacing is this? Nobody is on the weak side? This positioning on offense is just helping the defense. There is no way to take advantage of this double team on Luka. What happens is that Luka sees the double team and instead of going to the rim and scoring, it would have been unrecoverable position for Hunter, instead he slows down and forces the shot. In this instance it was not even possible to pass out of this situation. Why are DP and KP standing next to one another, are they guarding each other or what? It seems like so. Basically one Hawks defender (Collins in this case) is guarding an area where three Mavs players are and because they are so close, it's enough to have one player allocated there. Basically the Mavs players guard each other, which is pathetic.






- Luka is beating Hunter but Capela waiting for him in the paint. Story all evening long. Instead of Luka attacking the rim, he is forced to slow down after seeing Capela. He choses a mid ranger here. Again you can argue the positioning of DP, KP and THJ being all on one side, and nobody on the strong side. Why? It allows 2 Hawks defender to defend that area of 3 Mavs players. If one of them was on the strong side, this would end differently. What happens is that Luka slows down and Hunter recovers. No advantage for the Mavs again from going past Hunter.



- Again Luka going by Hunter, but Capela protects the paint well. Again it is posiitoning of DP and THJ that kind of overlaps and this allows Capela to slide. They (THJ and DP) need to be in different "lanes" and not in an overlapping lane/angle. We have a player on each side so at least that is good. But THJ and DP need to sit in different angles to be able to Luka to find one that is open, and one will be after Capela releases to Luka. It seems this offensive chemistry and positioning is way off. IMO THJ needs to slide right or DP in the other direction closer to the basket . Different angles and Luka would find them and punish Capela for helping out Hunter.
 


- Luka going past Hunter, sees Capela and stops for a mid ranger. This one is on Luka as he should have found THJ there and punished the double team. But he was doing that for much of the first three quarters with shots not going in. Here he tries to push things with us down 18 pts.

 
 

- Luka has beaten Hunter but the paint clogged again. Positioning of Mavs players can be debated here. Horrible spacing IMO. Where the hell is KP running? His movement basically runs Collins directly into Luka and clogs the lane. What is JB doing?

 


The offensive movements seem completely out of sync. Don't blame Luka. Don't give all the credit for Hunter although there were some examples of him staying well in front of Luka, and also some where he fought the screens very well, but if the spacing was different, he would have been destroyed on single matchups. Don't blame the other Mavs players as well although the shots did not go in. This might be an issue of offensive movement and positioning and chemistry of a new game plan and movement. Credit needs to go to the entire Hawks team for playing well. They were clearly the better team in this game.

[ThisIStheYear]

Gawd. That’s horrible. No need to change the offensive system from the last two years. Just keep that as is and work on the D.  I read somewhere that by a metric on shot quality, including I think if it was contested, the Mavs had one of their worst performances over the past two years. If the Mavs offense regresses even a little, the team is cooked.  I’d say it needs to be top 5 or so in the NBA.

[Mavs2021]

Gawd. That’s horrible. No need to change the offensive system from the last two years. Just keep that as is and work on the D.

Well if you don´t change anything, Porzingis will be sad and mad. Gotta feed the big dog. That´s what this all comes down to. Porzingis is not and will never be the player, that he thinks he is, and it seems unlikely that he will ever accept that.

The only way this has any chance of working is Porzingis playing like a 3&D PF/C hybrid. He needs to be the spacing PF on offense and the center on defense. It´s also not as far to run from the 3pt line (at the top) to the own basket. He´s way too slow to set-up underneath the basket on offense and have any hope to defend the rim on defense.

Just play

Doncic
THJ
Bullock
DFS
Porzingis

The 2nd unit basically should be everybody setting screens for Brunson, so he can score for himself in the mid-range and find Kleber/S. Brown for a few threes. Also play Moses Brown in hopes that he can clean up a few offensive rebounds for cheap points.

[hakeemfaan]

Well if you don´t change anything, Porzingis will be sad and mad. Gotta feed the big dog. That´s what this all comes down to. Porzingis is not and will never be the player, that he thinks he is, and it seems unlikely that he will ever accept that.

The only way this has any chance of working is Porzingis playing like a 3&D PF/C hybrid. He needs to be the spacing PF on offense and the center on defense. It´s also not as far to run from the 3pt line (at the top) to the own basket. He´s way too slow to set-up underneath the basket on offense and have any hope to defend the rim on defense.

Just play

Doncic
THJ
Bullock
DFS
Porzingis

The 2nd unit basically should be everybody setting screens for Brunson, so he can score for himself in the mid-range and find Kleber/S. Brown for a few threes. Also play Moses Brown in hopes that he can clean up a few offensive rebounds for cheap points.

I think Porzingis is an easy target. The question I have for everyone that is clamoring for that offense is what is the ceiling with that?  I don’t see an offense that relies so heavily on the greatness of one player being sustainable more than a couple of rounds in the playoffs. Even Bron can’t win that way. 

In the Clippers series Luka’s production in the 4th seemed to take a dip. 

Now if you are saying keep the offense the same and bring another creator, then too it is a different offense. For this team to be a legit contender we need a diversified offense where Luka has to go stretches as a decoy or play off the ball.  Keep him fresh for the 4th also.  

I am willing to give whatever Kidd is trying a chance because I just didn’t see a championship ceiling with what we were running previously though it did look great at times. The bottom line is that we had a home court game to wrap up a playoff series and came up with a terrible offensive performance.  I am not shedding too many tears for that offens.

[chaparral]

On the dark side of last nights big blow-out loss, Tankathon has the Mavs listed with the 12 pic in the 2022 draft.  I think the preseason listing was # 22 and 5th in the west.

But on the bright side we got the big blow-out loss out of the way in the first game of the season.

[omahen]

I think Porzingis is an easy target. The question I have for everyone that is clamoring for that offense is what is the ceiling with that?  I don’t see an offense that relies so heavily on the greatness of one player being sustainable more than a couple of rounds in the playoffs. Even Bron can’t win that way. 

In the Clippers series Luka’s production in the 4th seemed to take a dip. 

Now if you are saying keep the offense the same and bring another creator, then too it is a different offense. For this team to be a legit contender we need a diversified offense where Luka has to go stretches as a decoy or play off the ball.  Keep him fresh for the 4th also.  

I am willing to give whatever Kidd is trying a chance because I just didn’t see a championship ceiling with what we were running previously though it did look great at times. The bottom line is that we had a home court game to wrap up a playoff series and came up with a terrible offensive performance.  I am not shedding too many tears for that offens.

I agree no one can win with one man carrying all the burden. But I also think that RC mostly squeezed out what he could out of this team as far as offensive part is concerned. Mavs need better players to be able to play differently on offense, imho. I mean, their big offseason acquisitions were 3-D wings yet now they are expecting from them to be something else? These are not young guys improving their games. These are proven vets with their limitations. Isn't that excactly what made JRich and DWright ineffective with Mavs - asking them to do too much? Moving to Bullock who was supposed to stand around in the corner shooting open threes. One could actually argue that JRich and his midrange game would fit better than DFS or Bullock into what Kidd looked to create against Atlanta.

I don't understand why don't they just copy the Slovenian model from Olympics. Extremely limited team was playing arguably most beautiful offensive basketball at the tournament while being coached by an assistant coach from Czech league (since promoted to head coach at same team). One center who can shoot and PnR and three 3-D wings next to Luka. All individualy very limited, but worked great with Luka connecting everything. They played fast with wings pushing the tempo while half court offense were just endless PnR. Luka and Tobey, a very average center, were a menace even for France with Gobert. If one or two of your wings can also create, you have a contender, imho, with them switching opportunities to create.

[omahen]

As for Porzingis, I really don't understand how short memory people have. KP was allowed to post up a lot last season and only after proving it time and time again that he is not good at it, Carlisle stuck him in the corner after first couple of Clippers games in that series. The game yesterday just confirmed that. Personally I have zero hope to ever see consistent efficient KP creating for himself. And that is not a slight against him, coach (and him) just has to accept what he is and put him in a position where he can succeed. Imho, there are only two options - either he is the PnR partner (which means Powell can't play with him and clug the paint) or he is spreading the floor.

Unless the plan is to inflate his numbers, even if inefficient, to move him. Unfortunately even this part failed.

[chaparral]

I agree no one can win with one man carrying all the burden. But I also think that RC mostly squeezed out what he could out of this team as far as offensive part is concerned. Mavs need better players to be able to play differently on offense, imho. I mean, their big offseason acquisitions were 3-D wings yet now they are expecting from them to be something else? These are not young guys improving their games. These are proven vets with their limitations. Isn't that excactly what made JRich and DWright ineffective with Mavs - asking them to do too much? Moving to Bullock who was supposed to stand around in the corner shooting open threes. One could actually argue that JRich and his midrange game would fit better than DFS or Bullock into what Kidd looked to create against Atlanta.

I don't understand why don't they just copy the Slovenian model from Olympics. Extremely limited team was playing arguably most beautiful offensive basketball at the tournament while being coached by an assistant coach from Czech league (since promoted to head coach at same team). One center who can shoot and PnR and three 3-D wings next to Luka. All individualy very limited, but worked great with Luka connecting everything. They played fast with wings pushing the tempo while half court offense were just endless PnR. Luka and Tobey, a very average center, were a menace even for France with Gobert. If one or two of your wings can also create, you have a contender, imho, with them switching opportunities to create.

Do you think KP can play the Tobey roll and was one of there wing a power wing?

[omahen]

Do you think KP can play the Tobey roll and was one of there wing a power wing?

I think KP is a far better player than Tobey and he could play that role perfectly and shine. Why KP is not put in the PnR opportunities is the biggest mistery for me. And that goes back to last season

[omahen]

was one of there wing a power wing?

Overllooked this part. Luka was usually the power wing on defense. We had a couple of 6-7 or something guys on the bench if opponent had a couple of strong guys. Of course talent level at Olympics is lower than in NBA, but so was the talent level of our team, if I compare them with Dallas.