Why are we always the Free Agent Janitors?

[jerryjohnson]

Seriously, why do top and even mid-tier free agents give no consideration to Dallas? 'Splain it to me.

[Kidnova]

I think this was a valid question in previous free agency periods, I think it's too early to call this one, especially given the limited prep time for the new front office.  This was a fairly weak FA class overall.

[KillerLeft]

Here are some random thoughts that my brain thinks, in no particular order:

1) Cuban butchered this explanation, but I think he point regarding "we never had cap space" is actually true (the way he meant to say it). During Fish's famous "11x50" when the team was GOOD, their cap was totally screwed constantly. They made every roster building mistake possible, imo, and it's a miracle the team was as good as it was. There probably were tons of people who wanted to play here back then, but there was just no way.

2) Having just agreed with him about something, I think Cuban is an off-putting jackass, and I think outside of a Mavericks message board we'd find that this is a commonly held opinion. Frankly, he's just not likable. This wouldn't be a problem if he weren't sooooo forward facing in his approach to this franchise. 

3) Dallas is a good place to live - far from the negative that people paint it to be in these discussions. It's WAY more attractive than living in Minnesota, Utah, Oklahoma (I'm not even 100% sure what cities those teams come from), Charlotte, etc. BUT, it's NOT a draw for rich African Americans, in and of itself. Dallas is NOT very diverse, culturally, relative to other cities, and while people are super friendly here, it's not even as attractive as Houston to most African American millionaires, imo.

4) Piggy-backing off of #3, there are some cities, like LA, NY and Miami, that are so attractive in terms of glam and lifestyle that it's actually fairly enticing to be the first guy who signs there. While I maintain that Dallas isn't a negative, it's not the kind of place you sign to start a team era. When Luka is 28 and universally accepted/respected/worshiped by his peers (if he's still here, lol) people will want to sign here, imo. 

5) Given #'s 3 and 4, I think it's fair to ask whether attempting to build the core of the team through free agency is even a wise strategy. 

6) I think a lot of it is simpler than we think. Just like @"F Gump" often tries to remind us, Cuban and his management team have never really demonstrated that they are actually any good at the negotiation/deal closing side of this stuff. Simply put, they're just failing to execute their plans - often. Most of the time, actually. 

7) In both the last era and the current one, Dallas is built around European players. They are becoming more and more accepted and respected in the league, and for good reason, but it sure seems like playing "with my friends" drives the bus with a lot of these free agency decisions. It's a fraternity, and the European chapter is simply smaller, not to mention that we can't really accurately paint all Euros with the same brush, as they're all from completely different countries. Spain and Lativa are far more strange to each other than California and Idaho. 

I could probably give more answers, but I think it's basically a combo of all of that.

[haveitall]

Here are some random thoughts that my brain thinks, in no particular order:

1) Cuban butchered this explanation, but I think he point regarding "we never had cap space" is actually true (the way he meant to say it). During Fish's famous "11x50" when the team was GOOD, their cap was totally screwed constantly. They made every roster building mistake possible, imo, and it's a miracle the team was as good as it was. There probably were tons of people who wanted to play here back then, but there was just no way.

2) Having just agreed with him about something, I think Cuban is an off-putting jackass, and I think outside of a Mavericks message board we'd find that this is a commonly held opinion. Frankly, he's just not likable. This wouldn't be a problem if he weren't sooooo forward facing in his approach to this franchise. 

3) Dallas is a good place to live - far from the negative that people paint it to be in these discussions. It's WAY more attractive than living in Minnesota, Utah, Oklahoma (I'm not even 100% sure what cities those teams come from), Charlotte, etc. BUT, it's NOT a draw for rich African Americans, in and of itself. Dallas is NOT very diverse, racially, relative to other cities, and while people are super friendly here, it's not even as attractive as Houston to most African American millionaires, imo.

4) Piggy-backing off of #3, there are some cities, like LA, NY and Miami, that are so attractive in terms of glam and lifestyle that it's actually fairly enticing to be the first guy who signs there. While I maintain that Dallas isn't a negative, it's not the kind of place you sign to start a team era. When Luka is 28 and universally accepted/respected/worshiped by his peers (if he's still here, lol) people will want to sign here, imo. 

5) Given #'s 3 and 4, I think it's fair to ask whether attempting to build the core of the team through free agency is even a wise strategy. 

6) I think a lot of it is simpler than we think. Just like @"F Gump" often tries to remind us, Cuban and his management team have never really demonstrated that they are actually any good at the negotiation/deal closing side of this stuff. Simply put, they're just failing to execute their plans - often. Most of the time, actually. 

7) In both the last era and the current one, Dallas is built around European players. They are becoming more and more accepted and respected in the league, and for good reason, but it sure seems like playing "with my friends" drives the bus with a lot of these free agency decisions. It's a fraternity, and the European chapter is simply smaller, not to mention that we can't really accurately paint all Euros with the same brush, as they're all from completely different countries. Spain and Lativa are far more strange to each other than California and Idaho. 

I could probably give more answers, but I think it's basically a combo of all of that.

7 is #1 and in my opinion its what drives many of the decisions.

[Jym]

When money is similar, the most important thing is getting to play with your friends that you've known for years.
Even above winning
Just take Lowry. How many times do you think he's ever spoken to Luka and KP? A couple times in passing?

[Kidnova]

3) Dallas is a good place to live - far from the negative that people paint it to be in these discussions. It's WAY more attractive than living in Minnesota, Utah, Oklahoma (I'm not even 100% sure what cities those teams come from), Charlotte, etc. BUT, it's NOT a draw for rich African Americans, in and of itself. Dallas is NOT very diverse, racially, relative to other cities, and while people are super friendly here, it's not even as attractive as Houston to most African American millionaires, imo.

Not sure what stats you're using to determine racial diversity, but Dallas is typically pretty high on most lists, behind Houston and New York.

[KillerLeft]

When money is similar, the most important thing is getting to play with your friends that you've known for years.
Even above winning
Just take Lowry. How many times do you think he's ever spoken to Luka and KP? A couple times in passing?

Exactly. 

But eventually, there will be an entire generation of American players who have grown up watching Luka, just like the current crop of players grew up watching LeBron. He WILL be a draw, someday. I've never been more confident about anything. I just hope he's still here by then, and that the Mavs are in position to capitalize at that time.

---

Not sure what stats you're using to determine racial diversity, but Dallas is typically pretty high on most lists, behind Houston and New York.

Well, I'm definitely not consulting any hard data, but I've spent time in quite a few cities, and Dallas/FW definitely feels less diverse to me than people here claim. I'm not trying to throw shade - I love it here. But, while the population statistics might tell one story (idk, actually) the CULTURE supports my opinion...in my opinion (lol).

EDIT: Just re-read my blurb and your quote - I should have written "culturally" instead of racially. That wasn't an accurate portrayal of my take, sorry.

[Branduil]

Virtually all of the super-team colluding has come from AAU guys who are buddies wanting to play together. Combine that with super-attractive places like LA/NY/MIA and Dallas will never be able to compete with that.

[dirkfansince1998]

Cuban trashing the AAU system certainly did not help. Even though I agree with most of the things he said.

[khaled1987]

In addition to what is said, we were never that good or that lucky.
We started our FA approach in 2011 and decided to blow out our championship team  and get FA, back then DWill, CP3, & Howard were close to be FA. 
But Dirk was going to be 34 at the 1st FA , that isn't a good age for younger superstar unless you are Lebron. So we weren't goid.
CP3 & D12 planned to join Dirk here, but they found they could do a Melo and join super team through trades. So we weren't lucky.  
DWill had a chance to stay with what looked like a more competitive team and the other stars moved on and we looked like treadmill. 

After that, we were actually a treadmill team lol. No decent FA was going to sign for us unless for better money.
Then we have Luka, who is young and unproven, and we decided to do Cavs mistake and accelerate rebuild and trade for KP. In 2019 no one was going to join rookie Luka and team build around European players who had 3 lottery appearances in row. (Again, not good)

Then we are up to strong FA class in 2021, we are armed with young super star, who has been building good relationships and fans around the league, more competitive team, cap space, but Covid happened. 
Superstars won't risk short term contract,  teams willing to pay to keep their stars since they know cap space will boom in few years, our 2nd star gets injured and suddenly the biggest star FA isn't even a real star and we don't fit his timeline. That had a lot of bad luck IMO.

Huge part of both the bad luck and not goid was on the management who insisted on it, and I still yhink this was on Cuban

[Kidnova]

Exactly. 

But eventually, there will be an entire generation of American players who have grown up watching Luka, just like the current crop of players grew up watching LeBron. He WILL be a draw, someday. I've never been more confident about anything. I just hope he's still here by then, and that the Mavs are in position to capitalize at that time.

---

Well, I'm definitely not consulting any hard data, but I've spent time in quite a few cities, and Dallas/FW definitely feels less diverse to me than people here claim. I'm not trying to throw shade - I love it here. But, while the population statistics might tell one story (idk, actually) the CULTURE supports my opinion...in my opinion (lol).

EDIT: Just re-read my blurb and your quote - I should have written "culturally" instead of racially. That wasn't an accurate portrayal of my take, sorry.

Yeah, no biggie, I was just curious as to that perspective because racially Dallas is almost split into thirds between white/black/hispanic.  Not a big Asian representation, but on the whole Dallas is fairly diverse racially.

[SwisherPrice]

I never really bought into the lifestyle aspect. These are millionaires who are on the road half of the season and then can go anywhere they want in the offseason. Living in the metroplex is fine - it may not be Miami/LA/NY but it's not San Antonio or Salt Lake City. 

It's mainly from a basketball perspective and with a little bit of the Mark Cuban influence too (he is not as well-liked across the league by players as he thinks he may be). Dirk was at the end of his prime so it's obviously unappealing to younger free agents. And now Luka is still before his prime so it's natural for some of the established players to want to go sign with the other veteran stars because they are more familiar with them.

[cow]

It's on Cuban's shoulders.  Say what you will about Jerry, but he'd be more successful building the Mavericks brand and selling the idea of playing for the team to players.

[MrGoat]

I'll be blunt. Cuban's said some stupid stuff. And good luck finding a black star player who wants to play 2nd fiddle to a white guy. Simple as that.

I don't think it has all that much to do with the city itself

[Fromthecorner]

I'll be blunt. Cuban's said some stupid stuff. And good luck finding a black star player who wants to play 2nd fiddle to a white guy. Simple as that.

I don't think it has all that much to do with the city itself

Agree on the Cuban piece.  Mark has been that way since way before the Mavs.  Your third sentence is a very interesting observation.  I got the reluctance to join a Euro focused team but your point really makes me stop and think.

[hakeemfaan]

The issue is not striking out on FA. Even the Bulls and the Knicks have struggled for many years to get a transcendent player to come there. 

The issue is despite knowing that FA is just one option, the team has banked on that and treated and probably still treats draft picks and scouting as a joke. You cannot overnight get out of a mess like that. IMO a lot of that impatience comes from Cuban at the very top.

[J817]

Exactly. 

But eventually, there will be an entire generation of American players who have grown up watching Luka, just like the current crop of players grew up watching LeBron. He WILL be a draw, someday. I've never been more confident about anything. I just hope he's still here by then, and that the Mavs are in position to capitalize at that time.

---

Well, I'm definitely not consulting any hard data, but I've spent time in quite a few cities, and Dallas/FW definitely feels less diverse to me than people here claim. I'm not trying to throw shade - I love it here. But, while the population statistics might tell one story (idk, actually) the CULTURE supports my opinion...in my opinion (lol).

EDIT: Just re-read my blurb and your quote - I should have written "culturally" instead of racially. That wasn't an accurate portrayal of my take, sorry.

I think your reaching a little bit with this point tbh. Yes, Dallas doesn’t have beaches or isn’t largest city in America (LA, NY or Miami), but it is the 4 or 5th largest media market in US. You also don’t see cities like Chicago, San Francisco or Philadelphia attracting big time FAs either. Excluding Phili, those teams built their dynasties through the draft. Golden State didn’t attract Durant until after Curry, Thompson and Green. The Mav’s problem is due to the FO’s incompetence in ignoring scouting and the draft. Thats it. There’s really only three markets in the country that can try that method in building a championship team and Dallas isn’t one of them. This whole narrative that Dallas isn’t culturally relevant to African-American players is a reach imo. Why aren’t FA’s rushing to play for Atlanta or New Orleans?

[KillerLeft]

This whole narrative that Dallas isn’t culturally relevant to African-American players is a reach imo. Why aren’t FA’s rushing to play for Atlanta or New Orleans?

That's a valid question, and you might be right. 

My initial reaction the question, however, is that both teams have been run very badly, historically. I suspect that if Atlanta's current approach continues to look as successful as it did this season, they might be an attraction in the future, but I admit you've raised an interesting point. 

But again, my point was that there was no single, axiomatic answer to the OP's question, and I'm pretty confident that's the case. There are tons of different things involved here, and every free agent might weigh them all differently. Likewise, there might be some players who'd love to play here but have just never been free at the same time Dallas was looking for a player of their type. I should probably at a "the timing has to be just right" bullet.

[Branduil]

The issue is not striking out on FA. Even the Bulls and the Knicks have struggled for many years to get a transcendent player to come there. 

The issue is despite knowing that FA is just one option, the team has banked on that and treated and probably still treats draft picks and scouting as a joke. You cannot overnight get out of a mess like that. IMO a lot of that impatience comes from Cuban at the very top.

"Because it's DALLAS" was the peak of Cuban/Donnie delusion, I think.

[dirkfansince1998]

For me the most interesting part is that they couldn´t even attract local players. One would think that Dallas would have some kind of advantage when it comes to players from the area or even the state but that´s not the case. Feels like SA and Houston had more success with those guys.