2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[dynamicalVoid]

Saw people on realgm saying Denver needs to get off Aaron Gordon already.  Multiple people suggesting it.

This peaked my interest.

Why?  Because he wouldnt require assets that some bigger names would require to get.

Further adding to that important detail...I think he is exactly what dallas is looking for in the front court.  He checks all the boxes:

Young 
Muscular
Athletic freak
Defensive Monster
Switchable
Can guard 1 through 5
Can put it on the floor to exploit close outs
Can finish at rim better than what we got
3ball not terrible
Lob threat 
Not a knucklehead

Can anyone name a more perfect player that doesn't cost a fortune to acquire?

The amount of assets we would spend to acquire the perfect front court player and solidify our roster and take our defense to an even crazy height....would be a small price compared to filling your final need with the perfect player.

Adding to that...teams get let down because he's average on offense...especially if he's asked to do too much.   But he is a defensive monster.  We don't need his offense as badly as other teams. 

Disclaimer...I know nothing about cap and if this would be possible, know nothing about if Denver would help a conference foe by gifting them the exact player they need, know nothing about if Gordon would be willing to not get ball much on offense, etc

He would take our defense to crazy heights if paired with Maxi.   But I would move maxi if Denver asked because Goron is a clear upgrade as far as moving the needle...and wouldn't cost a fortune to acquire

[Jommybone]

Saw people on realgm saying Denver needs to get off Aaron Gordon already.  Multiple people suggesting it.

This peaked my interest.

Why?  Because he wouldnt require assets that some bigger names would require to get.

Further adding to that important detail...I think he is exactly what dallas is looking for in the front court.  He checks all the boxes:

Young 
Muscular
Athletic freak
Defensive Monster
Switchable
Can guard 1 through 5
Can put it on the floor to exploit close outs
Can finish at rim better than what we got
3ball not terrible
Lob threat 
Not a knucklehead

Can anyone name a more perfect player that doesn't cost a fortune to acquire?

The amount of assets we would spend to acquire the perfect front court player and solid our roster and take our defense to an ever crazy height....would be a small price compared to the fill your final need with the perfect player.

Adding to that...teams get let down because he's average on offense...especially if he's asked to do too much.   But he is a defensive monster.  We don't need his offense as badly as other teams. 

Disclaimer...I know nothing about cap and if this would be possible, know nothing about if Denver would help a conference foe by gifting them the exact player they need, know nothing about if Gordon would be willing to not get ball much on offense, etc

He would take our defense to crazy heights if paired with Maxi.   But I would move maxi if Denver asked because Goron is a clear upgrade as far as moving the needle...and wouldn't cost a fortune to acquire

Was with you all the way to move Maxi. Then out.

[dynamicalVoid]

Was with you all the way to move Maxi. Then out.

Better player and 5 years younger.

I mean obviously we would want to pair them....but if it came down to maxi instead of thj or Dinwiddie, green, frp, scraps...then I probably do it

[dynamicalVoid]

Im not good with words yall...

What I am trying to illustrate is the cost in acquiring Gordon(the perfect final piece) is marginal.  Big value.


Look at what bucks paid for holiday...the perfect final piece....Gordon wouldn't cost anything near that.   It's crazy value.

Yes...I get that jru cost a lot because he is good too.


Gordon fits the defense minded Kidd/Sweeney system.  Perfect body size, athleticism


Makes sense to me

[Jakeospikez]

Rockets getting the 3rd pick should be good news for the Wood trade market.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Rockets getting the 3rd pick should be good news for the Wood trade market.

I’d be interested in Garuba.  Word at the last draft is Dallas was trying to trade to take him.

[SleepingHero]

I have had thoughts of this nature as well.  He is even less of a rim protector and rebounder than Powell, so we would really be stretching the idea of a center.  But he would make more sense than Dorian (they would work well together) and I like how he generally ups his game in the playoffs.  I could be convinced of a move like this.

I also have thought long and hard about a Tobias Harris deal centered around not so great contracts.

The thing is, if we're sending out THJ+Bertans, are we really getting any better on paper? Production wise Harris' days seem to be behind him. I think we'd get more production per dollar just keeping those specialized guys than pivoting to Harris and his bloated contract.

However, on the idea itself, I think Harris would work incredibly well in our small ball lineup. We forego most rim protection anyways with Powell out there (sorry Dan), and Luka is good enough to be a primary rebounder. 

Harris would give us an incredibly consistent scorer. The biggest complaint I've seen about him from 76ers fans is "Tobias will give you 20 points in a game when you only need him to get 15. But he'll only give you 15 in a game you need him to get 20."

As a 3rd option behind Luka and Brunson (can even argue 4th behind Dinwiddie), I think that negative aspect about him is diminished.

Still I don't see any deal for him as realistic unless Cuban really goes all in and Philly accepts a paltry package of just THJ+Chriss+Burke+Brown.

[VintagePejav2]

I want nothing to do with Tobias Harris. Yuck.

Jalen Smith is definitely interesting. I think the Mavs will probably lean more proven and veteran with acquisitions though.

[Mavs2021]

Magic winning the lottery is great news for the Mavs. That means Bamba or/and Isaac will become available this summer.

I didn´t even notice how good that Isaac contract is. The last three years are not fully guaranteed according to spotrac. They basically did what the Mavs should have done with Porzingis.

The guarantees are

2022/2023: $16M
2023/2024: $7.6M
2024/2025: $0M

So he could be waived at minimal cost as early as next summer, but if he overcomes the injury problems you have a stud at $17M until 2025.

[BasketballJones41]

Magic winning the lottery is great news for the Mavs. That means Bamba or/and Isaac will become available this summer.

I didn´t even notice how good that Isaac contract is. The last three years are not fully guaranteed according to spotrac. They basically did what the Mavs should have done with Porzingis.

The guarantees are

2022/2023: $16M
2023/2024: $7.6M
2024/2025: $0M

So he could be waived at minimal cost as early as next summer, but if he overcomes the injury problems you have a stud at $17M until 2025.

I’m interested in taking a cheap flyer on Isaac for sure. But right now I’m still in the business of getting Markkanen to Dallas. And if I remember correctly you were on that bandwagon with me this last summer. So what do you think about this latest draft night deal I’ve concocted:

Cavs-Jermai Grant
Mavs-Lauri Markkanen 
Pistons-14+26 Powell/Brown

And then of course we could use the TPE or taxpayer MLE to add another big.

[Mavs2021]

I’m interested in taking a cheap flyer on Isaac for sure. But right now I’m still in the business of getting Markkanen to Dallas. And if I remember correctly you were on that bandwagon with me this last summer. So what do you think about this latest draft night deal I’ve concocted:

Cavs-Jermai Grant
Mavs-Lauri Markkanen 
Pistons-14+26 Powell/Brown

And then of course we could use the TPE or taxpayer MLE to add another big.

I don´think the Cavs or Pistons would be interested unfortunately.

Cavs I think it´s more about the fit with Mobley + Allen. In a vacuum they´d probably do Grant for Markkanen + #14.

Mavs would likely do Powell/Brown + #26 too. Add a legit bruiser on the cheap via free agency as you suggested.

Pistons I think do not consider two middle to late picks enough value for Grant, I guess. Though it´s hard to tell what the perception about him is around the league? Just a good numbers on a bad team guy? That they lost out in the lottery and will be forced to reach on the projected weakest big at #5 certainly doesn´t help.

[BasketballJones41]

I don´think the Cavs or Pistons would be interested unfortunately.

Cavs I think it´s more about the fit with Mobley + Allen. In a vacuum they´d probably do Grant for Markkanen + #14.

Mavs would likely do Powell/Brown + #26 too. Add a legit bruiser on the cheap via free agency as you suggested.

Pistons I think do not consider two middle to late picks enough value for Grant, I guess. Though it´s hard to tell what the perception about him is around the league? Just a good numbers on a bad team guy? That they lost out in the lottery and will be forced to reach on the projected weakest big at #5 certainly doesn´t help.

I think Cleveland and Dallas would definitely do that deal. But I agree with you Detroit is the question mark. They’re currently rebuilding and I personally don’t view Grant is anything more than a glorified Harrison Barnes. He’s also a free agent at the end of next year and who knows what his priorities are going to be. But since they got him for nothing but cap space I think it would make sense to sell as high as they can on draft night. So it really just comes down to could they get a better offer than 14+26?

[Jommybone]

I’m interested in taking a cheap flyer on Isaac for sure. But right now I’m still in the business of getting Markkanen to Dallas. And if I remember correctly you were on that bandwagon with me this last summer. So what do you think about this latest draft night deal I’ve concocted:

Cavs-Jermai Grant
Mavs-Lauri Markkanen 
Pistons-14+26 Powell/Brown

And then of course we could use the TPE or taxpayer MLE to add another big.

Don’t we already have ginger Markkanen?

[BasketballJones41]

Don’t we already have ginger Markkanen?

Lol. Bertans has been surprisingly good but give me actual Markkanen any day of the week. Of course I’m not unbiased but at 29 DB is what he is. I still think Lauri has some untapped upside. To the point where he could be a core piece here going forward. But I think even what he is at this point in time would be an excellent fit here.

[Branduil]

Magic winning the lottery is great news for the Mavs. That means Bamba or/and Isaac will become available this summer.

I didn´t even notice how good that Isaac contract is. The last three years are not fully guaranteed according to spotrac. They basically did what the Mavs should have done with Porzingis.

The guarantees are

2022/2023: $16M
2023/2024: $7.6M
2024/2025: $0M

So he could be waived at minimal cost as early as next summer, but if he overcomes the injury problems you have a stud at $17M until 2025.

The Magic might be a team which would legitimately have interest in THJ, they were 28th in 3PT shooting percentage last year. Mavs can't get Bamba though, because again, S&T isn't possible. I also doubt Orlando sell Isaac when his value is so low. But maybe the Magic decides to re-sign Bamba and sell WCJ instead of losing Bamba for nothing. WCJ was the guy the Mavs supposedly wanted that year if they couldn't get Luka (oof at imagining that Mavs team). Terrence Ross has also made it known he wants out of Orlando.

THJ, Green, and 26
for
WCJ and Ross

The Magic add shooting, veteran leadership, and an additional young defensive guy who could develop into a versatile 3&D wing. The Mavs get a starting C who would hopefully develop into the next Al Horford.

[DanSchwartzgan]

The Magic might be a team which would legitimately have interest in THJ, they were 28th in 3PT shooting percentage last year. Mavs can't get Bamba though, because again, S&T isn't possible. I also doubt Orlando sell Isaac when his value is so low. But maybe the Magic decides to re-sign Bamba and sell WCJ instead of losing Bamba for nothing. WCJ was the guy the Mavs supposedly wanted that year if they couldn't get Luka (oof at imagining that Mavs team). Terrence Ross has also made it known he wants out of Orlando.

THJ, Green, and 26
for
WCJ and Ross

The Magic add shooting, veteran leadership, and an additional young defensive guy who could develop into a versatile 3&D wing. The Mavs get a starting C who would hopefully develop into the next Al Horford.

Why not Josh for Okeke straight up.

You are right, they won't sell this low on Isaac.  They will see him return.  They might could use a veteran shooter, but you can get those for less than $17mm.  They don't need our pick.  They have 1, 32 and 35.  And, I don't see any reason why they'd move off of Carter.  He seems a really nice fit next to Jabari Smith or Holmgren.  I really like where this is headed for them with a build around Suggs, Wagner, Carter and #1. 

To me, Okeke is the odd man out.  He's like Josh in that he's a 3 point shot away from being pretty useful.  But, he shows more confidence in his shot.  He took quite a few and saw a bunch go in from about January on.  For the full season, he hit .382 from the corner.  Per 36, he's a 12/6 guy with 2 steals and a block.  He also moves the ball well.  Dallas probably needs a young backup PF more than it needs a young wing and the opposite is true for Orlando which is loaded with bigs and a little thin at the wing.

[Branduil]

Why not Josh for Okeke straight up.

You are right, they won't sell this low on Isaac.  They will see him return.  They might could use a veteran shooter, but you can get those for less than $17mm.  They don't need our pick.  They have 1, 32 and 35.  And, I don't see any reason why they'd move off of Carter.  He seems a really nice fit next to Jabari Smith or Holmgren.  I really like where this is headed for them with a build around Suggs, Wagner, Carter and #1. 

To me, Okeke is the odd man out.  He's like Josh in that he's a 3 point shot away from being pretty useful.  But, he shows more confidence in his shot.  He took quite a few and saw a bunch go in from about January on.  For the full season, he hit .382 from the corner.  Per 36, he's a 12/6 guy with 2 steals and a block.  He also moves the ball well.  Dallas probably needs a young backup PF more than it needs a young wing and the opposite is true for Orlando which is loaded with bigs and a little thin at the wing.

That's probably more realistic, sure, just not as sexy. I suspect it's more likely they sell on Bamba than WCJ, but there are a couple points in favor of selling WCJ instead:

1. Bamba is the guy they drafted, while WCJ is a guy they got in a trade. Could that be a deciding factor in who they keep?
2. Bamba is the better shooter and shot-blocker compared to WCJ. Would he be the better fit in a 3-headed frontcourt monster of Isaac/Bamba/Jabari Smith?

Regarding THJ, sure you can get a veteran shooter for cheaper, but how many are readily available who put up 17ppg on 42% 3PT shooting in their last playoff series, against some of the best defenders in the league? I've said before that I'm not sure THJ fits on this team with how we're playing now, but he's clearly been one of the best cheerleaders and has strong leadership qualities in the locker room. It's possible his value is better than we think for the right team, especially one which is eager to stop tanking and take a young, exciting core back to the playoffs.

[Mavs2021]

The Magic might be a team which would legitimately have interest in THJ, they were 28th in 3PT shooting percentage last year. Mavs can't get Bamba though, because again, S&T isn't possible. I also doubt Orlando sell Isaac when his value is so low. But maybe the Magic decides to re-sign Bamba and sell WCJ instead of losing Bamba for nothing. WCJ was the guy the Mavs supposedly wanted that year if they couldn't get Luka (oof at imagining that Mavs team). Terrence Ross has also made it known he wants out of Orlando.

THJ, Green, and 26
for
WCJ and Ross

The Magic add shooting, veteran leadership, and an additional young defensive guy who could develop into a versatile 3&D wing. The Mavs get a starting C who would hopefully develop into the next Al Horford.

We could do a virtual S&T, right?

Magic have enough room to absorb the full THJ contract into space. Then we would do a S&T of say Brown + Burke + Boban for Bamba (48/4 ish) and even after re-signing Brunson we should be roughly at the apron.

I´m not convinced that Orlando will give up Okeke before Isaac. If they move Isaac it generates serious capspace for them or a good veteran player. Okeke is cost-controlled and much more settled into a bench role (same argument for Bamba).

I don´t think you want the stress of trying to fit in Isaac between Wagner, WCJ and the new #1 pick. There is a clear pecking order without Isaac AND then the obvious elephant in the room: Isaac played his last basketball game on Jan 3rd. 2020!!! That´s nearly 2 1/2 years. I can´t even remember such a long injury break ever before, not even the Unicorn.

[JamesConway912]

Zero interest in Isaac, the guy has been out way too long. I doubt he’ll ever make a significant return to the league (like 40+ games in a season).

But I LOVE some pf the names that have been kicked around here. 

Big yes on Jalen Smith
PJ Washington 
Jaxson Hayes

Would love every single one of them here.

[mvossman]

Im not good with words yall...

What I am trying to illustrate is the cost in acquiring Gordon(the perfect final piece) is marginal.  Big value.


Look at what bucks paid for holiday...the perfect final piece....Gordon wouldn't cost anything near that.   It's crazy value.

Yes...I get that jru cost a lot because he is good too.


Gordon fits the defense minded Kidd/Sweeney system.  Perfect body size, athleticism


Makes sense to me

There is a reason Denver folks want off Gordon and its not just his offense.  He may have the perfect physical attributes but his actual defensive impact is not much better than average.  He can't play center defensively and he can't shoot particularly well making him an awkward fit.  He is not in the ballpark of Jrue Holiday who is a much better defender, scorer, playmaker and shooter.