2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[Kammrath]

The other 28 games he sucked which is why he played minimal minutes. That’s like saying look at Trey Burke. When he plays a lot of minutes, he plays well. He’s only playing those minutes because he’s playing well.

That's not actually what's been going on in WAS. Kuzma came in and took all his minutes. The team chose to play the younger Kuzma and develop their other younger talent. Bertans is a win-now type player.

[cow]

That's not actually what's been going on in WAS. Kuzma came in and took all his minutes. The team chose to play the younger Kuzma and develop their other younger talent. Bertans is a win-now type player.

Losing your job to Kyle Kuzma isn't a good sales pitch.  Mavs aren't a win-now team.

[ItsGoTime]

Looking at the salary chart, in 23-24 we have LD, DB, THJ and DFS (without knowing if or for how much we have JB) assuming we don't take on the unguaranteed contracts and haven't resigned Maxi previously. That's 2 starters and 2 bench players at $85.5M (have to think that is 1 additional starter...JB...adding to the total to be $100M+). I know there is a path to stay out of LT hell like MC said, but at what cost to roster talent level?

[hakeemfaan]

The most tiresome phrase (and Kamm this is not a shot at you because many have used it) over the last decade is that “the Mavs are in a win now mode”.  I believe thinking this way is why Cuban has minimized the value of picks in deals and why we have struggled to become a legit contender.  

I agree with Kamm that I am pretty optimistic about Bertans regaining his shot but even for a soecialist 3 pt shooter with poor defense that is a lot of money to be sinking into. His contract doesn’t match other soecialist poor defense 3 pt shooters. Folks might point to Joe Harris but he is a better defender.

[Kammrath]

The most tiresome phrase (and Kamm this is not a shot at you because many have used it) over the last decade is that “the Mavs are in a win now mode”.  I believe thinking this way is why Cuban has minimized the value of picks in deals and why we have struggled to become a legit contender.  

I agree with Kamm that I am pretty optimistic about Bertans regaining his shot but even for a soecialist 3 pt shooter with poor defense that is a lot of money to be sinking into. His contract doesn’t match other soecialist poor defense 3 pt shooters. Folks might point to Joe Harris but he is a better defender.

Look, I HATED that the Mavs went into "win-now" mode with Luka right away. I am still angry with RC for not tanking properly Luka's rookie year and winning three completely inexcusable games down the stretch. The Mavs SHOULD have kept that top 5 pick. 

But now? That ship has sailed and I think the Mavs do need to be in "win-now" mode (within reason). Choosing DB and SD over GD is taking two players in their prime rather than taking one on the downslope of his career. That is "win-now" but in a healthy way IMO. 

I think DB is a much better defender than his reputation. He is not a "good" defender (don't misunderstand me), but he is middle of the pack and I think you could argue is a good TEAM defender (though not individual).

[Winter]

I think DB is a much better defender than his reputation. He is not a "good" defender (don't misunderstand me), but he is middle of the pack and I think you could argue is a good TEAM defender (though not individual).

I think that's probably true. He was regularly playing 25-30 MPG before this season. I think he'll be fine in this system. 

This wasn't a "good" trade, but it was likely the only trade ... and likely the only one that put a shooter and play-maker in the rotation for at least a few minutes. These guys are flawed, but no more flawed that the current rotation players.

[JamesConway912]

The most tiresome phrase (and Kamm this is not a shot at you because many have used it) over the last decade is that “the Mavs are in a win now mode”.  I believe thinking this way is why Cuban has minimized the value of picks in deals and why we have struggled to become a legit contender.  

True. Barring smaller, heat of the moment-type rants here & there I’m done talking about this though. It’s a complete waste of time and has been for a long time as nothing will change on that front.

We‘re in Luka‘s 4th season and are as close to getting him an allstar teammate as on day one. It’s obscene how poorly this organization has been and remains to be run. With no caproom and no draft picks you’re never gonna land a clear number 2. He’s not even going to get a Chris Bosh type alongside himself.

Luka will have to climb his mountain mostly by himself the same way Dirk did.

[omahen]

Luka will have to climb his mountain mostly by himself the same way Dirk did.

I think Luka has it way worse. Dirk had excellent players around him in Nash, Finley,... Luka has a bunch of role players

[hakeemfaan]

Look, I HATED that the Mavs went into "win-now" mode with Luka right away. I am still angry with RC for not tanking properly Luka's rookie year and winning three completely inexcusable games down the stretch. The Mavs SHOULD have kept that top 5 pick. 

But now? That ship has sailed and I think the Mavs do need to be in "win-now" mode (within reason). Choosing DB and SD over GD is taking two players in their prime rather than taking one on the downslope of his career. That is "win-now" but in a healthy way IMO. 

I think DB is a much better defender than his reputation. He is not a "good" defender (don't misunderstand me), but he is middle of the pack and I think you could argue is a good TEAM defender (though not individual).

I saw your charts yesterday.  As a Mavs fan that was encouraging to see. I do know that many time reputations don’t match stats and players sometimes are unfairly targeted.  The national narrative on Dirk’s defense did not match his actual defensive impact over the seasons.  As long as Bertans can be part of units which are a net positive that’s all that matters.

[JamesConway912]

I think Luka has it way worse. Dirk had excellent players around him in Nash, Finley,... Luka has a bunch of role players

Probably true, ugh.

[ReunionMav]

We are in win now mode for sure but perhaps only thru this year’s playoffs. Now evaluation resumes and a win now playoff run is perfect for evaluating this current team. This summer we now have different assets to use and a soon to be healthy THJ to try again for better players and better player mix. 

Moving KP certainly was a big step in what Nico plans to do. Establishing Defense has been a major Kidd and team accomplishment. Let’s enjoy watching it knowing that Nico is unafraid to address weaknesses when he can. All but two of the West teams look very beatable and Phoenix and Golden State can be beaten by many things in the current times. Our superstar certainly seemed happy last night. I plan to watch with great interest to whatever happens.

[omahen]

Biggest needs now are a center and PF. SnT is realistically off the table as Mavs will be over the hard cap line. All they have regarding FA is rMLE. 

Best option for a trade is draft night where Mavs have the 2022 pick and 2027 one available. If they don't do it on draft night, the options in the summer are again extremely limited until the 2023 pick converts. We have seen that a couple of serious contenders generated serious flexibility. Miami has 2022 and 2023 FRP available for trade. BKN has the two Philly picks. So both teams have arguably better picks than Mavs and not worse contracts to play in trades.  Mavs need a serious "Robin", Miami and BKN are perfectly fine getting a third banana type of player. Breaktrough Memphis has 3 picks in 2022 alone and a horde of decent contracts. Golden state, Chicago, Milwaukee and Denver will all have picks in this draft too. 

Mavs execution will be on a real test, but I am starting to prepare myself that 2022-23 team will be very similar to what we have now.

[TXBamanut]

The only hope for this trade, besides just waiting out until they are expiring deals and trading them for future stuff or picks, delaying the rebuild even further, is that Dinwiddie can be something more than what he has been (Cuban was actually rumored not have wanted him in January, but in FA last year and was talked out of it - that's what I heard on a couple of pods way back, sorry, but I can't remember which ones or I'd link them).

There are only two glimmer of hopes that might exist.
1)  Change of scenery -- There are some stats that suggest that Dinwiddie played better without Beal.  But unfortunately, before Dinwiddie got there, Beal took the most shots of anyone in the NBA not name Luka, and Beal dropped down to 10th with SD there, so he sacrificed.  Unfortunately, Luka is still #2 in shots...so  Dinwiddie needs the ball, so I don't see a lot of time with Luka.
2)  Injury recovery.  From a major knee injury in most sports, it usually takes some time for a player to get back to form.  Year two is usually a little better.

That's about it and even the first glimmer of hope has a pretty big caveat.  I'm not even counting on anything from Bertans because he hasn't been a 40% shooter since before the bubble, which he was hurt in and didn't play, I think?

We are not in win-now mode at all with these moves, because these moves, barring a miracle with Dinwiddie which I don't think will happen and Nico Melli 2.0 isn't going to help us either (we just traded a little D for the promise of a better 3 point shot when he rounds back to form - we've done both here already)...these moves are made to be traded which won't be this year, probably not this off-season, although they will try, and will be after next year.  Dinwiddie is only owed 10 of his 18 million in his last year, so that's probably when he'll pay off.

Let's face it...they took an underperforming "buyer's remorse" "star" (underperforming is a bit of a stretch, because it's hard to underperform at 20/8/2 and a PER of 22) for two lesser buyer's remorse contracts who really won't get it done.  Also, Windhorts mentioned that Jake Fisher, who's been pretty reliable of late, reported that there was a deal on teh table with Toronto that they turned down, probably centering around Dragic.

I think Cuban just still had that Dinwiddie jones going, and finally put his foot down and got his man...I don't think that this signifies that Nico is in charge at all, but probably more that Cuban took the reins at the last minute.

Welcome to plan powder 4.0...

Last night is a good picture of what our season could very well look like.  SD and DB being complete non-factors and LUka having to play 40 minutes per game, put up record performances with no help from anyone, to beat what is a sub .500 8th seed without their top two players, who are arguably either one, MVP candidates in their own right.  Shooooo...it was great to watch, but not fun to think about moving forward.

I think that Hardaway's injury, KP's injury (again), and the team basically playing over their head (outside of Luka) for two weeks right before the deadline really caused them to do something that is not going to work out at all.  I really do.

I think Dragic is better for us than Dinwiddie will be...he can spot up and doesn't have to have the ball, or he can take over and run it...and he's a leader and a solid locker room guy...Dinwiddie is coming off playing with dudes that didn't even want him around, as a guy...that's a tough sell as any type of improvement.  For those that say KP was a cancer, if the bloom comes off the rose, we may see the day we wish we had a guy that would keep his mouth shut, work hard and do his job, even when he's unhappy...

I really, really, really, really, really + 1000 hope I'm wrong, because I'm a Mavs fan...but last night, while awesome to watch, just made me think we are going to back to the sky high usage rate, wear Luka to a nub and flame out in the playoffs because there's not even the promise of adequate help coming offensively and defensively is more atrocious.  The more I think about this trade and try to find a silver lining...there just isn't one, outside of some lotto pick type stuff.  I really didn't want to go into rebuild this soon. Please prove me wrong SD and Nico.

[Winter]

A reasonable analysis of why KP couldn't stay

Josh Bowe - MavsMoneyBall

... "Why for this package of subpar players with zero picks? The answer feels simple: the Mavericks had enough of the Kristaps Porzingis experience.

That experience includes a lot. It’s maintaining Porzingis’ body with delicate care. It’s appeasing him on the court, doing everything possible to maximize his possessions. It also includes a lot — [i]a lot — [/i]of missed games. Porzingis missed 21 of the Mavericks 55 games he could have played in this season. Only seven were due to healthy and safety protocols, which leaves the remaining to injuries and rest to prevent such injuries. Despite the Mavericks doing everything they could to keep Porzingis upright and in games for as long as possible, Porzingis missed 68 of 202 games in just a shade under three total seasons with the Mavericks. That’s a significant number, a big enough number to make you want to reevaluate if this is the guy you want to hitch Luka Doncic’s wagon to. The league knows this as well, so it’s not hard to imagine Porzingis’ value across the NBA being at rock bottom. Porzingis was coming off his “healthiest offseason in years” yet couldn’t stay on the court without multiple bouts of knee soreness and a bone bruise. If this is what Porzingis looks like after a healthy offseason, you can see why the league wasn’t foaming at the mouth to acquire him. While this is pure speculation, it feels the Mavericks did this deal at the time they did it and for the package they received simply because keeping Porzingis on this roster past the NBA trade deadline was simply untenable. If Porzingis suffers another major knee injury, the Mavericks would be toast with no where to go. So instead of no where, they went somewhere. It’s not necessary a better path, but it is a path and one that they have more control over."

[KillerLeft]

We‘re in Luka‘s 4th season and are as close to getting him an allstar teammate as on day one.

This is absolutely, unquestionably true, and we are all pissed about it.

Some of us believe that getting back to where they were on day one represents positive change from where they were with Porzingis on the roster. That’s the point. Having Porzingis on the roster caused them to be FARTHER from that goal, not closer. He was in the way, both on and off the court. 

You cannot have a max contract on your roster who not only is not an all-star, but is not even an everyday player. Two smaller bad contracts suck, but I think it’s just a slightly more preferable situation. It’s that simple.

[KillerLeft]

While this is pure speculation, it feels the Mavericks did this deal at the time they did it and for the package they received simply because keeping Porzingis on this roster past the NBA trade deadline was simply untenable.

I know the quote above was added as a quote from Josh Bowe, I'm just too lazy to make that clear in this post (although I guess I just did).

This is pretty much right where my head went yesterday, almost immediately. They just needed to be rid of Porzingis. 

Maybe it's just the obvious - that in hindsight, the trade and extension were gigantic mistakes, that he's not really the player everyone thought he'd be, even when healthy, that he is very clearly not a good fit with Luka on the court, that his contract was log-jamming everything any of us could even dream to do next with the roster, that his ego and just general presence on the team was draining to the entire organization. 

Maybe there were other things at play that we don't even know yet, things that we'll never know. Maybe he and Luka hated each other (this is what I think, but I definitely don't KNOW), maybe the latest injury is worse than we think. Maybe their medical team has finally decided that they can't improve his health - they've tried everything, and this is just what life with Porzingis will be. 

Whatever it is, just start the thought process from here: KP was going to be on another team today, somehow, some way. Do that, and it starts to make a lot more sense, imho, and though the place where the Mavs find themselves now, today, isn't a great place, I do think there's reason to think it's better than where they were two days ago. I honestly believe that.

Maybe they could've done a little better with the deal. Maybe we'll hear something definitive that proves that, idk. But, what I think, and honestly, what I think might not even be all that subjective, is that this team has been needing to dig out of this Porzingis hole for quite a long time, and every day that has passed since that became glaringly obvious has been the crime. Even the worst imaginable deal (what they delivered was pretty damn close to that, I admit) that gets the healing started is a step in the right direction, imho.

[hakeemfaan]

The only hope for this trade…

The more realistic way of looking at the trade is this:

Let us put aside our personal evaluations of KP’s talent. I and you are on the same page. Many others disagree. Let us put aside if the Mavs should have got at least a FRP from Washington.  I am of the opinion they should have. Let us just look at the big picture. 


Every championship team other than maybe the Det one that won this century has had a true stud.  That is the most difficult thing to get. The Mavs are one of the few teams with such a stud.  Each stud is different. You don’t build the same way around Curry as you would around Hakeem as you would around Dirk and so on.  Regardless of our personal evaluations of KP, the Mavs have come to the conclusion that he is not the type of secondary player they want around Luka. I think they now realize that a big athletic defensive guard who can handle the ball for long stretches is ideally the perfect fit around Luka. I tend to agree with that evaluation.   

I don’t know and am sure they don’t know if Dimwiddie is that guard until they find a legit stud running mate . But they now know clearly the direction that they want to go.  To me that is good that if they know that they are not wasting anymore time worrying about how to mix up styles to fit KP next to Luka.  Move on to what you really want to do. This will make Kidd’s job much more easier. This will make the jobs of other players also much more easier as the styles won’t change whether Luka is on or off the floor.

[Chicagojk]

Biggest needs now are a center and PF. SnT is realistically off the table as Mavs will be over the hard cap line. All they have regarding FA is rMLE. 

Best option for a trade is draft night where Mavs have the 2022 pick and 2027 one available. If they don't do it on draft night, the options in the summer are again extremely limited until the 2023 pick converts. We have seen that a couple of serious contenders generated serious flexibility. Miami has 2022 and 2023 FRP available for trade. BKN has the two Philly picks. So both teams have arguably better picks than Mavs and not worse contracts to play in trades.  Mavs need a serious "Robin", Miami and BKN are perfectly fine getting a third banana type of player. Breaktrough Memphis has 3 picks in 2022 alone and a horde of decent contracts. Golden state, Chicago, Milwaukee and Denver will all have picks in this draft too. 

Mavs execution will be on a real test, but I am starting to prepare myself that 2022-23 team will be very similar to what we have now.

This is what I keep on coming back to.  I understand posters who wanted a clean break from KP.  I get it.  I wasn't quite there yet, but had made posts the last few weeks that I had my doubts if it was going to work out for him here.

So now he is gone....now what?   The Mavs are still asset poor.....and now desperate.   As you state above, Dallas is going to be deficient in most trade packages when good players hit the market.    Other teams have more stuff.  I still think this summer or next trade deadline they can offer picks and pick swaps for an all in move.  But is this team ready for an all in move now?  For instance, if you went all in for John Collins, is this team built ready for a championship?  It would really help if that star player said he wants to go to Dallas.  It may give us a shot.   It just feels like we are two really good players away.   I can see us getting 1 with an all in move.  How do we get the other?  A lot of smart teams out there too.

[Tyler]

Dinwiddie is coming off playing with dudes that didn't even want him around, as a guy...that's a tough sell as any type of improvement.  

I'm open to evidence to the contrary, but my impression of the situation in Washington was it was more about guys like Beal reacting poorly to Dinwiddie trying to speak up as a leader than it was about Dinwiddie being a problem in the locker room. Note that Dinwiddie responded by backing down and embracing his role. I interpret it as saying more about Beal's ego than about Dinwiddie's.

[Winter]

So now he is gone....now what?   The Mavs are still asset poor.....and now desperate.   As you state above, Dallas is going to be deficient in most trade packages when good players hit the market.    Other teams have more stuff.  I still think this summer or next trade deadline they can offer picks and pick swaps for an all in move.  But is this team ready for an all in move now?  For instance, if you went all in for John Collins, is this team built ready for a championship?  It would really help if that star player said he wants to go to Dallas.  It may give us a shot.   It just feels like we are two really good players away.   I can see us getting 1 with an all in move.  How do we get the other?  A lot of smart teams out there too.

You're right, we are not currently built for a championship. We will have to shuffle the deck at least one more time. 

But how many times did we do this during the Dirk era? Multiple times. Our best team during the regular season never won a championship. Even the Bucks couldn't find the answer for a few years with Giannis.

In the end, we had evidence that KP wasn't likely to get us there... so we moved on.

As for the comment, "but I am starting to prepare myself that 2022-23 team will be very similar to what we have now". I can only say that if KP were still here, it would be EXACTLY" like the team we have now.