2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[cow]

I hated. absolutely hated JJB for many years. It was a pure bias due to his height and my feeling that you could not win a title with this guy. I overlooked the fact that the guy belonged in the NBA. We talk about heart and other intangibles, but  IMO I feel now it comes to processing things quickly in your head and seeing options a split second before the defense does.  JJB had that.  His inconsistency in shooting kept him from having an even better career than he had ( and he had a fine career) more than his height limitations. 

Reason I say this is I was upset at the JB pick to now flat out enjoying watch the guy play. He is so I ncredibly crafty that he can do this for a long time to come. IMO it is not about whether he perfectly complements Luka or not.  He can play and can absolutely be a key piece on a title run. 

If we are going to give him up I might be ok if they can get rid of THJ in the process Else No. Even if they can get rid of THJ..I would still lean towards a No. We have given up Barnes,Seth, Delon and really didn’t get better talent Talent that can play with the big boys is not easy to find. JB has that. Sign him even if it’s a bit too pricey and then worry later. Currently he is the clear 2nd best player on the roster.

I think where the JJB comparison kind of breaks down is that JJB always wanted to be here and seemed happy in his various roles.  I can't say the same for Jalen and that's part of what makes Jalen GREAT.  I'd almost be willing to bet, given the opportunity at matching contracts, Jalen would go to a team without a primary ball handler/facilitator.  The more opportunity he's been given, the more he has shined.  I don't think he see's a ceiling for himself and while that is wonderful, everyone has a ceiling.  

The second way the comparison kind of falls flat is in contract.  JJB's biggest contract was 4y/18m.  Even if you modernize that deal, Jalen isn't going to make more than twice as much as JJB and I don't think he's twice the player.  

If he were comfortable in that semi-starter/sixth man role, I'd be okay with an overpay but I don't think that role is his aspiration and we already have so many overpays.  

I hated the JB pick and while I nitpick him, I still call him a poor man's CP3 as far as craftiness and being able to create shots for himself.  I still think he leans more towards a complimentary player than a core guy but JB's busted through a lot of ceilings I've put on him, so who knows?

[hakeemfaan]

I think where the JJB comparison kind of breaks down is that JJB always wanted to be here and seemed happy in his various roles.  I can't say the same for Jalen and that's part of what makes Jalen GREAT.  I'd almost be willing to bet, given the opportunity at matching contracts, Jalen would go to a team without a primary ball handler/facilitator.  The more opportunity he's been given, the more he has shined.  I don't think he see's a ceiling for himself and while that is wonderful, everyone has a ceiling.  

The second way the comparison kind of falls flat is in contract.  JJB's biggest contract was 4y/18m.  Even if you modernize that deal, Jalen isn't going to make more than twice as much as JJB and I don't think he's twice the player.  

If he were comfortable in that semi-starter/sixth man role, I'd be okay with an overpay but I don't think that role is his aspiration and we already have so many overpays.  

I hated the JB pick and while I nitpick him, I still call him a poor man's CP3 as far as craftiness and being able to create shots for himself.  I still think he leans more towards a complimentary player than a core guy but JB's busted through a lot of ceilings I've put on him, so who knows?

I don’t know if JB wants to be here or not but I am fairly confident that he will never pull a Simmons and will never be anything less than a professional and will play in any role he is given.  I am not saying he is indispensable. Just that if I am giving up someone who clearly will be playing for a long time to come, I want some tangible talent in return.

[cow]

I don’t know if JB wants to be here or not but I am fairly confident that he will never pull a Simmons and will never be anything less than a professional and will play in any role he is given.  I am not saying he is indispensable. Just that if I am giving up someone who clearly will be playing for a long time to come, I want some tangible talent in return.

JB is a pro's pro.  All I'm saying is that he may want to go to another team where he has a bigger role.  What's next for JB is right around the corner.

[Okstate819]

Dallas receives - John Collins, Immanuel Quickley
New York receives - Jalen Brunson
Atlanta receives - Gary Harris (expiring), 2023 unprotected 1st from NY
Orlando receives - Tim Hardaway Jr, 2025 tlottery protected 1st from NY

This is the, NY wants Jalen "bad" move. Give up Quickley a 1 and a future protected 1 for him to facilitate us getting what we want. (Collins) We get off THJ and now can resign DFS next summer.

Orlando get a protected 1 for moving an expiring and THJ reunites with Mos as a solid vet.

ATL gets off Collins and gets an unprotected 1st.

[hakeemfaan]

JB is a pro's pro.  All I'm saying is that he may want to go to another team where he has a bigger role.  What's next for JB is right around the corner.

You want him thinking that way. I would want an athlete who has that fire. We have said plenty of times that this team needs a 2nd ball handler who is long and can also play defense.  While JB won’t satisfy the last two criteria he is definitely surprising me and showing he can be that 2nd ball handler for long stretches. The coaching staff should easily be able to get him a lot of minutes and increased responsibilities here if that is his concern.

[F Gump]

Brunson for just a Mavs' 1st rounder? No. JB is way too high a price to be paying to only get a scrub 2023 pick. You're not getting NY to give up enough to get a really good player like JB.

Even though acquiring the pick unlocks the Mavs abililty to trade picks, NY is not the only option for that -- the Mavs can get any 2023 pick elsewhere and do the same thing. I trust Nico would target a 2023 pick with way more potential, at the least, and maybe more. Or get NY to add a lot more value to such an offer.

The idea that NY is hard in pursuit means the Mavs should be able to set the price, and it needs to be high. But maybe you are better off to just keep him.

[Jmaciscool]

Brunson for just a Mavs' 1st rounder? No. JB is way too high a price to be paying to only get a scrub 2023 pick. You're not getting NY to give up enough to get a really good player like JB.

Even though acquiring the pick unlocks the Mavs abililty to trade picks, NY is not the only option for that -- the Mavs can get any 2023 pick elsewhere and do the same thing. I trust Nico would target a 2023 pick with way more potential, at the least, and maybe more. Or get NY to add a lot more value to such an offer.

The idea that NY is hard in pursuit means the Mavs should be able to set the price, and it needs to be high. But maybe you are better off to just keep him.

Didn't Jerry Jones (I think) have a quote about if you pick up the phone to call another team then you've already lost the trade?

[Kammrath]

You're not getting NY to give up enough to get a really good player like JB.

AMEN. 

I think two things are happening here:

1) People are failing to value JB as highly as he should be (maybe because Mavs fans have been so used to assuming we have no assets others want).

2) How much leverage Nico has in this situation. Nico can literally just sign JB this summer (I don't think JB would do the Mavs wrong and just walk, especially if the contract is slightly better than others can offer) and then trade him later. OR Nico can trade JB to any number of teams.

[cow]

You want him thinking that way. 

I said as much in a previous post.

---

AMEN. 

I think two things are happening here:

1) People are failing to value JB as highly as he should be (maybe because Mavs fans have been so used to assuming we have no assets others want).

2) How much leverage Nico has in this situation. Nico can literally just sign JB this summer (I don't think JB would do the Mavs wrong and just walk, especially if the contract is slightly better than others can offer) and then trade him later. OR Nico can trade JB to any number of teams.

I'm not sure anyone has advocated just a pick.

Pick + Salary Dump + a player in return.  That would be the starting point.

[Branduil]

There's no reason to trade Brunson at this point unless you're sure he doesn't want to be here.

Now, KP and THJ on the other hand...

[F Gump]

Nico can literally just sign JB this summer 

Yep. The working assumption here seems to be that NY will offer JB the moon in free agency, if the Mavs won't cooperate. But when I looked it up, I found that as things stand so far, the Nix have no cap room looming. (The Mavs can already beat an MLE offer.)

[Mavs2021]

There's no reason to trade Brunson at this point unless you're sure he doesn't want to be here.

BINGO.

That´s what I expect from a top franchise. They must know already. The parameters of an extension should have been discussed between the Mavs and Brunson/DFS.

Don´t let the contracts expire without getting compensation. If they are not willing to commit, then look to move them on.

[juanc]

Mavs fans 2 months ago:"We need a secondary ballhandler next to Luka, or we are doomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!   "
Mavs fans today:" We need to chip in Brunson!!"

Cmon guys, we all know better...

[Mavs2021]

Mavs fans 2 months ago:"We need a secondary ballhandler next to Luka, or we are doomeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!!!   "
Mavs fans today:" We need to chip in Brunson!!"

Cmon guys, we all know better...

If Brunson and DFS want to stay, then that´s fine. What if Brunson wants his own team? Then there is nothing the Mavs can do.

Mavs are usually not that interested in draft picks (maybe that changes with Nico), but given that the Knicks long-term plan clearly seems to be Zion and they might want to keep their picks for that, I´d actually ask about Julius Randle first.

[burekemde]

Brunson should be untouchable. He has improved each season and this one as well, and his curve is pointing still upwards. That's impressive! You don't trade a player that keeps improving as his value will be even much higher than it is today. He is becoming a star. In addition, he is playing at an all-star level and is the perfect complement to Luka. If he was on another team (Brunson that is), that would be our prime target to play next to Luka. It is the other positions where we need an upgrade. Players that fit well with Luka and Brunson. Maxi and DFS are the great fits to pair with them.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'm not sure anyone has advocated just a pick.
 

No one made of flesh did, only people made of straw.   

Nothing to worry about here.  No way Nash Brunson leaves us without compensation.  His best friend Dirk Maxi is on the team.

And anyway, Boston New York is over the cap.  No way they can clear cap room so sign Walker Brunson right out from under our noses.

The truth is Brunson can't be signed to his market value until he's an unrestricted FA.  Eligible before then...yes.  Practical...no.  That makes him a flight risk and his value around the league is diminished because everyone knows of NY's desire to sign him (and the tight family relationship between Brunson and the President of the Knicks).  That means you have two choices.  1. Get value for him now (you know, dump him for nothing), or 2.  Ride it out and hope.  Those who profess there is no risk here simply have their heads in the sand (see what I did there).

Interesting fact, 1/3 of the picks in 2023 already have been traded and have protection on them.  Trading for those picks doesn't help us trade 2022 and 2024 because we can't be sure the 2023 pick we might trade for will convey.

[Jmaciscool]

And anyway, Boston New York is over the cap.  No way they can clear cap room so sign Walker Brunson right out from under our noses.

And Miami really wants to sign Jimmy Butler but they have no cap space, and there's no way they can get it unless they work with the Mavs, so the Mavs have all the leverage...

[Kammrath]

No one made of flesh did, only people made of straw. 

Did you think I made a straw argument or statement? Let me know if I did.

I just think a chunk of folks do 1) undervalue JB and 2) underestimate Nico's good position here. Do you think those are false?

[Kammrath]

[hakeemfaan]

No one made of flesh did, only people made of straw.   

Nothing to worry about here.  No way Nash Brunson leaves us without compensation.  His best friend Dirk Maxi is on the team.

And anyway, Boston New York is over the cap.  No way they can clear cap room so sign Walker Brunson right out from under our noses.

The truth is Brunson can't be signed to his market value until he's an unrestricted FA.  Eligible before then...yes.  Practical...no.  That makes him a flight risk and his value around the league is diminished because everyone knows of NY's desire to sign him (and the tight family relationship between Brunson and the President of the Knicks).  That means you have two choices.  1. Get value for him now (you know, dump him for nothing), or 2.  Ride it out and hope.  Those who profess there is no risk here simply have their heads in the sand (see what I did there).

Interesting fact, 1/3 of the picks in 2023 already have been traded and have protection on them.  Trading for those picks doesn't help us trade 2022 and 2024 because we can't be sure the 2023 pick we might trade for will convey.

My bad. I have not been keeping up. All along I was under the assumption that he was a RFA. I didn’t realize that he will be an UFA. That changes my stance. 

The previous regime blundered with not having a team option on the final year. Unbelievable. Thanks Donnie.