2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[TXBamanut]

Man, after watching two games, I am GLAD I'm not the one making the decisions there.

McLaughlin hasn't shown much, so he's the only clear cut for me.

Omuruyi -- wow - seriously, looked even better in preseason than he did in SL -- comp got better and so did he.  There's the mini-Draymond comp, but he's smaller, better shooter and has some hops.  I'm not going over the edge, but he's got something...don't Linsanity this guy...
Jones -- I know he's not this guy, but he's got some Mo Cheeks in him to me.  He looked way better in these two games than he did in SL to me (same as Omuruyi)
Frankie --- not all night, but there are those plays and flashes...
Trey Burke --- he was GONE for me, but last night, he made a case to stay (or hopefully get traded) -- he was dishing more than he had in the past.  He was usually a score first and only guy.  He must have read what the Mavs are looking for and written his resume.
Brown -- Promise, but PROJECT... but not as far off as some think.  (Not a starter)
Green --  I totally get it...his offense hasn't been good, but he has some athletic flashes, consistency problems, BUT...I'm telling you, I don't care.  That onball defense is REAL...I mean it.  He can seriously guard 1 through 4 on some of these guys.  Kennard was shooting out of his mind last night...so I'm not freakin about that..

Brown - what do you say?  Glad we signed him.  He's like Adrian Griffin with a shot and hops
Bullock - can we start 6 please?  Geez... I hate that he's coming off the bench.
Powell --- thank you for shutting me up for a game...KEEP THAT UP, SON.  The occasional 3, the screens, the activity and hustle, and the finish.
KP --- all ya'll shut up now....just shut up...especially the hater.
Maxi --- he looks as expected when you aren't dealing with COVID and an achilles injury "I can run and jump now." - Maxi on the difference from last year.  Truth...makes a difference.

I'm pretty excited after the first two preseason games.  It will get harder and I'm not getting the Larry O'Brien tatooed on my arm or anything, but it's okay to feel good about where we are.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Man, after watching two games, I am GLAD I'm not the one making the decisions there.

 

Omuruyi -- wow - seriously, looked even better in preseason than he did in SL -- comp got better and so did he.  There's the mini-Draymond comp, but he's smaller, better shooter and has some hops.  I'm not going over the edge, but he's got something...don't Linsanity this guy...
 
Frankie --- not all night, but there are those plays and flashes...
 
Brown -- Promise, but PROJECT... but not as far off as some think.  (Not a starter)

Green --  I totally get it...his offense hasn't been good, but he has some athletic flashes, consistency problems, BUT...I'm telling you, I don't care.  That onball defense is REAL...I mean it.  He can seriously guard 1 through 4 on some of these guys.  Kennard was shooting out of his mind last night...so I'm not freakin about that..

Brown - what do you say?  Glad we signed him.  He's like Adrian Griffin with a shot and hops
Bullock - can we start 6 please?  Geez... I hate that he's coming off the bench.
Powell --- thank you for shutting me up for a game...KEEP THAT UP, SON.  The occasional 3, the screens, the activity and hustle, and the finish.
KP --- all ya'll shut up now....just shut up...especially the hater.
Maxi --- he looks as expected when you aren't dealing with COVID and an achilles injury "I can run and jump now." - Maxi on the difference from last year.  Truth...makes a difference.

I'm pretty excited after the first two preseason games.  It will get harder and I'm not getting the Larry O'Brien tatooed on my arm or anything, but it's okay to feel good about where we are.

Could we install a second "Like" button for posts that deserve multiple likes?  I narrowed the prospect list down to those I think matter.  With the possible exception of EO, I don't think we will have any reason to discuss the G-League guys after the next two weeks.

[embellisher]

Brunson is a solid NBA player. There is no universe that he is a near 20million dollar player though.

Spencer Dinwiddie got 3/54. Brunson isn't a starter here but would be on other teams. Somebody is going to offer him 3 or 4 years at a number approaching $20M, especially if his game advances this year. Book it!

[Kammrath]

KP --- all ya'll shut up now....just shut up...especially the hater.

I think you forgot an "s"....way more than one hater of him.

[ItsGoTime]

I think you forgot an "s"....way more than one hater of him.

There have been 2 main culprits though, so "s" is warranted. I'm assuming TXB is talking to one of those 2.

[dirkfansince1998]

There have been 2 main culprits though, so "s" is warranted. I'm assuming TXB is talking to one of those 2.

Still feeling good about the 23/9/2 but if KP plays (especially defends) like he did in the two preseason games you can have my signature anyway. Wouldn´t be fair to take advantage of silly boxscore numbers if my predictions are wrong.

I liked what I saw but I won´t overreact after two preseason games. I need to see his pick and roll and perimeter defense. And/or the way Kidd protects KP from those situations. So far the Mavs are still playing a lot of drop defense. With Powell/WCS/Brown as the primary pick and roll defenders. KP is guarding the worst wing shooter and more or less leaves him open. Playing a lot of help defense in the paint. Very simillar to Utah´s scheme with Gobert as the help defender in the paint.
Worked against Utah´s B team. Looked even better in the first half against Winslow and the Clippers. Now I need to see it against a good shooting team.
Again. Not trying to overreact. Only two preseason games played so far. But I am a little bit concerned about Kidd´s willingness to give up open 3s. Even if it the "worst" shooter on the floor. Reminds me of the Bucks defense under Kidd. And we all know how it ended. Started of hot. Ended in disaster.

@Thukydides actually posted the perfect example in the game thread just a few minutes ago. Stealing his content to show what I mean.

https://twitter.com/Velleius_NBA/status/1446911164466831361?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1446911164466831361%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.embedly.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3Dfd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fvelleius_nba%2Fstatus%2F1446911164466831361image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fabs.twimg.com%2Ferrors%2Flogo46x38.png

I like the effort around the rim but are we sure that this is the kind of defense we want to play all season long. This is not even about KP. I think he is defending it exactly like the coach wants him to do it. Terrence Mann is wide open all possession long. A better playmaker probably finds him earlier in the shot clock. That´s exactly what ended the Jazz´s playoff run. Mann isn´t a high volume shooter but his percentages are elite.That´s how he dropped 39pts (7/10 from 3) on the Jazz in the playoffs.

[F Gump]

I think Sterling, Green and Frank will compete for backup two minutes.  Someone needs to step up as the bench needs some shot creation outside of Brunson.  As rotations tighten those minutes will evaporate.  But Bullock, Hardaway and Brunson playing more minutes doesn't solve the bench creation issue.  Brunson, Maxi, Bullock, some center and one of the colors still feels light to me.  Good D, but not enough scoring.  As I said in the game one thread, I think Kidd solves this by leaving THJ out there as the last starter to sit and brings Luka back as the first starter to return reducing the time we have a pure bench lineup on the floor.

Your conclusion that Kidd might only use a 9-man rotation in essence, with Brunson, Maxi, Bullock, and a "backup center" (that may not always be the same body), feels right. Playing a regular 10-man rotation, with 2 5-man shifts more or less, doesn't seem like the NBA norm, although I haven't tried to look closely and verify that impression.

And I think the observation that they will be wishing for some additional offense-creating is smart. Dragic would have helped, however he's apparently not on the way. But maybe that comes from Brunson (whom I think we are under-valuing by remembering his post-season and forgetting his regular season body of work), and it feels like Burke should have some of that in him, perhaps. I'm also thinking Carlik Jones may have potential in this area, and I'm guessing they might give him a 2-way slot so they can tap into that as needed.

One thing I'm looking forward to is seeing what Kidd can get out of younger players who need to develop. By all accounts, he was instrumental in building a foundation for Giannis, Middleton, and others. The Mavs do have a few young players who have shown a few flashes, and it would be great if some of them can become real NBA talent.

[TXBamanut]

I think you forgot an "s"....way more than one hater of him.

I'm typing giddy, so I'm allowed a mistake or two.

[DanSchwartzgan]

And I think the observation that they will be wishing for some additional offense-creating is smart. Dragic would have helped, however he's apparently not on the way. But maybe that comes from Brunson (whom I think we are under-valuing by remembering his post-season and forgetting his regular season body of work), and it feels like Burke should have some of that in him, perhaps.  

Oh, I definitely think he has some of that in him.  It is tough to come up with too many guys like him (especially with his efficiency).  I think he needs help though.

It is one thing to let our 6'7" beast of an all-NBA player handle creation duties by himself (this seeming emphasis on early offense may help some with his load).  But asking Brunson to carry that same load (and see over double teams) is probably too much to ask.  I'm with those who pine for another two-way starter, but I'm not sure we have the ammunition for that this season.  I do think we could come up with another bench guy who can create his own shot prior to the TDL.  It would be a big help in the playoffs.

I'm with you on the Kidd Development angle.  He's got some decent clay to work with.

[F Gump]

It is one thing to let our 6'7" beast of an all-NBA player handle creation duties by himself (this seeming emphasis on early offense may help some with his load).  But asking Brunson to carry that same load (and see over double teams) is probably too much to ask.  I'm with those who pine for another two-way starter, but I'm not sure we have the ammunition for that this season. 

This is a good point about Luka's backup, and it's a truth we often blow right past.

In a way, we are wanting the Mavs to find someone to be "Luka" (or at least "almost-Luka") when Luka sits. And that's on us for stupidity in our expectations, not on the Mavs. How many Luka's exist? One. And if there was another, he certainly wouldn't be filling a need for a limited-minutes backup.

Brunson isn't doing that job of replacing Luka, but "well duh." It is inevitable that things are going to look different, and the results will not be the same, when Luka isn't on the floor. What it will take to do that is probably a mix of talents from multiple players, not one.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

This is a good point about Luka's backup, and it's a truth we often blow right past.

In a way, we are wanting the Mavs to find someone to be "Luka" (or at least "almost-Luka") when Luka sits. And that's on us for stupidity in our expectations, not on the Mavs. How many Luka's exist? One. 

Huh?  That's not what we're expecting at all.  Ish Smith or Saben Lee would probably be the 2nd best point guard/creator/penetrator on this team.  No one is expecting a Luka lite.  

The owner and defacto GM said his primary goal this offseason was to get a secondary creator.  Now we all pretend that was a false narrative.

[Mavs2021]

Huh?  That's not what we're expecting at all.  Ish Smith or Saben Lee would probably be the 2nd best point guard/creator/penetrator on this team.  No one is expecting a Luka lite.  

The owner and defacto GM said his primary goal this offseason was to get a secondary creator.  Now we all pretend that was a false narrative.

What you expect from people that now pretend that Reggie Bullock and Sterling Brown were the major summer acquisitions they were looking for as fans.  

But sure Luka is the problem again.

[omahen]

A couple of quotes from Hollinger preview I find interesting:

- More oddly, the Mavs traded Richardson to set up a potential cap room scenario and ended up not needing the money. At $16 million below the tax line, they could have kept his $10.9 million contract rather than sending it out in what amounted to a salary dump.
- One final oddity that warrants mentioning is the Tyler Bey saga. Dallas used a high second-round pick on the forward in 2020 (36th) but only offered him a two-way and sent him on his way after the season. He’s the only player in the top 46 picks of that draft not on a 15-man roster this season.
- Dallas has a pretty strong cap situation considering it has two max contracts on the roster. Dallas is still $16 million from the luxury-tax line this season and should have the freedom to pursue roster additions. The only thing holding the Mavs back is the lack of fungible expiring contracts. The Mavs owe their 2023 first-round pick to New York from the Porzingis trade but otherwise have draft equity to put in deals as well.
- Again, things might have been easier if they’d hung on to Richardson, who can offer more salary ballast in a trade.
- Next year, Doncic’s supermax doesn’t change things as much as one might think. The rise in the cap and the declining money on Hardaway’s contract (a smart move) leave the Mavs with enough breathing room to use their full midlevel exception and their first-round pick and still remain below the tax line. (my comment - if you let DFS and Brunson walk)
- on Terry - Undersized and lacks a point guard’s handle; struggled even in G League.
- Getting Doncic some on-ball help is their best pathway to the top-three type offense they surely need to win a title. They have the assets and contracts to put themselves into a deal — perhaps not for the A-listers, but for any player a rung or two lower who comes available. 
- The Mavs have Luka, and that alone virtually assures them a playoff spot; it also assures them of being highly threatening once there. The question is whether they’re positioned to do any better than the last two times.

Prediction: 50-32, fifth in Western Conference

https://theathletic.com/2866580/2021/10/...ough-help/

[DanSchwartzgan]

A couple of quotes from Hollinger preview I find interesting:

 
- Dallas has a pretty strong cap situation considering it has two max contracts on the roster. Dallas is still $16 million from the luxury-tax line this season and should have the freedom to pursue roster additions. The only thing holding the Mavs back is the lack of fungible expiring contracts. The Mavs owe their 2023 first-round pick to New York from the Porzingis trade but otherwise have draft equity to put in deals as well.
 
- Next year, Doncic’s supermax doesn’t change things as much as one might think. The rise in the cap and the declining money on Hardaway’s contract (a smart move) leave the Mavs with enough breathing room to use their full midlevel exception and their first-round pick and still remain below the tax line. (my comment - if you let DFS and Brunson walk)
 
Prediction: 50-32, fifth in Western Conference

https://theathletic.com/2866580/2021/10/...ough-help/

I'm hoping for closer to 54/55 wins, but I've got more faith in healthy KP than Hollinger does and have no basis in fact for that faith.

I often forget that they were careful not to take on extra years this summer.  S. Brown is two years and Bullock is only partially guaranteed in year three (KP's PO year).  Powell and Maxi come off at that point also as do Boban and Frank (if he makes the team).  Josh Green and Moses Brown are on TO's at that point.  That's all well and good for flexibility, but to your bolded point, that all falls apart if you give DFS and Brunson large multi-year deals.  It is hard to know if they have a plan or are just doing their best to retain flexibility.  If there is a plan, I'm probably just as intrigued about when as I am about who.

Maybe the big move is summer of 23 when all future draft capital is available.  I could see doing a deal at the TDL that sends out Finney and brings back someone already signed for 22/23.

[omahen]

Maybe the big move is summer of 23 when all future draft capital is available.  I could see doing a deal at the TDL that sends out Finney and brings back someone already signed for 22/23.

Looking at possibilities. My criteria - a player that brings quality on similar position but doesn't require a FRP level of asset, as we are saving the bank for that one big win now move either at 2022 draft or in 2023. There are plenty of centers in this range, but this really is last position where we need another average body. 

Danny Green (fits our TPE). It would help Philly get under tax this season while receiving similar quality player. I would of course be looking for an asset.
Assuming Bullock is really good so that we can survive losing DFS, Saric might be an option at TDL (again with asset attached). 
Juan Hernangomez and asset could be an option with Celtics.
How about DFS+Brunson for Coby White? Chicago gets two proven win now bodies while Mavs save 2022 money. Not really a fan of his but he would for sure boost bench scoring.

[omahen]

That's all well and good for flexibility, but to your bolded point, that all falls apart if you give DFS and Brunson large multi-year deals. 

There are rumors that 2023 cap space might be around 150 mil with new TV deal. Luka, KP and THJ have roughly 90 mil guaranteed in 2023. Add 20 mil for DFS and Brunson combined. Personally I think this is their value based on last season performance and their ceiling. I don't think they will get much more on free agency market unless they have phenomenal seasons. Add another 10 mil for smaller contracts combined that might be on the roster (Green, Terry, Brown,...) and Mavs still have roughly 30 mil of cap space.

[Hypermav]

I noticed Hollinger replied to a comment asking about Moses Brown.  He did not think Brown makes the cut but then mentions it might be Burke.  

He has Terry on the 15.  I hope Terry is the cut. 

Hollinger also had Omoruyi and McLaughlin 2 way.

[omahen]

I noticed Hollinger replied to a comment asking about Moses Brown.  He did not think Brown makes the cut but then mentions it might be Burke.  

He has Terry on the 15.  I hope Terry is the cut. 

Hollinger also had Omoruyi and McLaughlin 2 way.

I hope Burke gets his vaccine and Mavs are able to find a trade for him and Terry. Rick needs a guard in Indy after all those injuries. 

If there is no trade, I would cut Terry.

[mvossman]

A couple of quotes from Hollinger preview I find interesting:

- More oddly, the Mavs traded Richardson to set up a potential cap room scenario and ended up not needing the money. At $16 million below the tax line, they could have kept his $10.9 million contract rather than sending it out in what amounted to a salary dump.
- Again, things might have been easier if they’d hung on to Richardson, who can offer more salary ballast in a trade.

I think this is a misunderstanding of the Richardson situation.  I think the Mavs were working with JRich agent on the Boston deal.  If they don't have that deal in place (or a similar deal) then JRich opts out.  We do that trade because we already know we are going to operate over the cap and that TPE has potential value (as opposed to nothing).  I don't think there was a scenario where we simply hang onto JRich.

[Chicagojk]

I hope Burke gets his vaccine and Mavs are able to find a trade for him and Terry. Rick needs a guard in Indy after all those injuries. 

If there is no trade, I would cut Terry.

I think if Terry is not back this week, he is going to be cut.   I don't want to speculate what he is going through and I want to root for the kid.   I would guess there is a good chance he wasn't lighting up camp either and that may have played a part in his leaving the team again.   

I was ready to move on from Burke and his vaccine stance didn't improve his standing with me.  Although I thought he has looked good in the scrimmage and the last preseason game.  The Mavs are sort of unique where they only have two ball handlers on the team.    As DS mentions, a JB (backup point guard) ankle turn could be a much bigger issue than most teams.    I don't want to think about Luka missing games.    So, maybe Burke is insurance to start the season.    He could also be released later on if Dragic is bought out at the deadline.  Eventually, I believe they will cut Burke.   I can't see him on the team next year and he will probably be hard to do a 1 to 1 trade.

I will be anxious to watch the final two preseason games.   I hope we see a lot of the fringe players.  Frank looked uneven in his first game.  Some nice defensive moments, but some of his other parts of his game looked rusty.  I want to get a closer look at him.   I don't think he helps this year, but the Mavs need to make a decision if he is worth developing for a year.   I don't want to take too much from his first game with the team.  Hopefully we get to see plenty of Josh Green and lets see him run a pick and roll.   In these games, let him try to expand his wings a little.  

As far as Carlik and McLaughlin go, I think Carlik has been better.  He has nice quickness and gets seperation.    Mclaughlin has looked pretty smooth but just hasn't made his shots.   Mclaughlin is bigger, Carlik is quicker.  Mclaughlin may have more positional flexibility.  Both are older rookies.    I don't want to make a judgement after watching two games.   I want to see both guys fight for that spot.   

Question on two way guys--- They can still play games with the real team right?  I believe there is a limit though.    Can they be poached by another team?  For instance, if OKC wants Eugene can they sign him or do the Mavs hold his rights?   Do they get the ability to keep him and put him on the 15 man roster if this happens?  I think with our roster keeping Eugene as a two way guy but also having him suit up some nights is a good fit.   I just wonder if that leaves us exposed if a team really wanted him.  Maybe I am making too much out of a preseason performance against mostly other G-league guys.