Let´s have a poll: KP for Simmons straight up - are you in?

[ballsrchr]

Damn it!  I hate to be pinned down...when it really means nothing.  Means nothing because the Mavs are not going to consult me about the trade.  I voted no...but it's very slim...49 to 51% no.  IF we had a TALL secondary ball handler/creator/scorer/defender/etc that I think we need to go with Luka...then maybe I would vote yes.  But we don't have that player.  This is Luka's team...meaning it needs to be built completely around him.  WHEN it is built around Luka he probably won't be the top scorer on the team, but he will elevate the team to heights they will never achieve separately.  This why the GM and coach are going to be so important.  I hope Cuban doesn't whiff it...

God I hope Cuban doesnt whiff it...

I quote myself.  I don't want anyone to misunderstand.  I voted no by a slim margin...but we DO need to trade KP: first for a greater need...then I'd entertain acquiring Simmons.

[SleepingHero]

I am shocked we have so many Simmons haters. 

I was the former captain of KP island that abandoned ship in the playoffs (But has since come back and set up a tidy new home next to HyperMav), and anyone saying no to this deal just doesn't value the versatility Simmons brings. 

He's not a guy without faults, but once you think of him as a 6'11 center that can also run a break like Jason Kidd then you start to see the value of him.

[KillerLeft]

He's not a guy without faults, but once you think of him as a 6'11 center that can also run a break like Jason Kidd then you start to see the value of him.

[mtrot]

If Rick Carlisle were still the head coach, i probably would

I wouldnt trade KP just for the sake of trading him and now that Rick is gone i would like to see what a new head coach could do with KP

Never underestimate the ability of Rick to suck the life out of a player.  Let's change the culture and see what happens.  If KP still sucks after half a season, then I'm on board with getting rid of him.

[TXBamanut]

He sitting up there with an MVP candidate, and he's getting worked by Trae Young or Lou Williams, whoever he ends up on and for everyone that gripes about KP not punishing the smaller player... in the Atlanta series, he's got 

6 points
8 points
11 points
18 points
4 points
17 points

He's being guarded by Trae Young, Lou Williams and Bogdonovic....just saying.   Philly fans have to be KILLING this guy... this is a SEVERE case of grass is always greener and proximity hate.

[ClutchDirk]

I am shocked we have so many Simmons haters. 

I was the former captain of KP island that abandoned ship in the playoffs (But has since come back and set up a tidy new home next to HyperMav), and anyone saying no to this deal just doesn't value the versatility Simmons brings. 

He's not a guy without faults, but once you think of him as a 6'11 center that can also run a break like Jason Kidd then you start to see the value of him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6fJdf8DJ.../giphy.gif

[KillerLeft]

He sitting up there with an MVP candidate, and he's getting worked by Trae Young or Lou Williams, whoever he ends up on and for everyone that gripes about KP not punishing the smaller player... in the Atlanta series, he's got 

6 points
8 points
11 points
18 points
4 points
17 points

He's being guarded by Trae Young, Lou Williams and Bogdonovic....just saying.   Philly fans have to be KILLING this guy... this is a SEVERE case of grass is always greener and proximity hate.

Something I've been meaning to ask you for a while, but I haven't had the courage:

Why is it that you're such a die-hard KP fan? Do you also follow the Knicks? I mean the question very seriously. There's disagreeing with people, and then there's your posture about these KP debates. Your reactions read to me like you're defending Dirk or Luka, but for the life of me I can't figure out what he has done since coming here that could've inspired such devotion. 

We all thought the Mavs were getting an all-star. Do you, personally, think he'll ever be an all star in the West, starting now, even if all of your suggested changes in the franchise's approach to playing him are made?

[dirkfansince1998]

He sitting up there with an MVP candidate, and he's getting worked by Trae Young or Lou Williams, whoever he ends up on and for everyone that gripes about KP not punishing the smaller player... in the Atlanta series, he's got 

6 points
8 points
11 points
18 points
4 points
17 points

He's being guarded by Trae Young, Lou Williams and Bogdonovic....just saying.   Philly fans have to be KILLING this guy... this is a SEVERE case of grass is always greener and proximity hate.

No better way to admit that you aren´t even watching the games. Just posting whatever fits your agenda. They are defending him with bigs or big wings.  Mostly Collins. Sometimes Gallinari or Bogdanovic. Even Capela is more of an option than Young or Lou Williams.
Next part: Defense. Simmons is not the problem. Actually doing a good job against Young. Against Simmons Young is 16/35 from the floor. 3/13 from 3. Only attempted 6 FTs. 53.1% TS. That elite defense.
Problem is that just like any other team the Hawks are hunting mismatches and attacking the bigs. Embiid and Howard cannot move their feet. Curry and Korkmaz are mediocre defenders.

Simmons is not a high volume scorer. Never has been. That´s the on advantage KP has over him. Not saying that he hasn´t been a problem on offense in the last three games but even at his worst he is still better than KP because of all the other things he can do on the basketball court.

[Branduil]

The problem is there's zero evidence of Simmons being a good center, it's simply conjecture because he's so obviously bad at his current role. I don't see it as being any different than the wishcasting that KP can suddenly become a great center.

By far the most damning aspect of Simmons as an NBA player is his absolute, steadfast refusal to improve himself. He's still the same player as when he came into the NBA, he REFUSES to work on his shot despite how much that would help his game and his team. That tells me he's just satisfied cashing his checks because he knows his athleticism alone can keep him in the NBA.

[TXBamanut]

Something I've been meaning to ask you for a while, but I haven't had the courage:

Why is it that you're such a die-hard KP fan? Do you also follow the Knicks? I mean the question very seriously. There's disagreeing with people, and then there's your posture about these KP debates. Your reactions read to me like you're defending Dirk or Luka, but for the life of me I can't figure out what he has done since coming here that could've inspired such devotion. 

We all thought the Mavs were getting an all-star. Do you, personally, think he'll ever be an all star in the West, starting now, even if all of your suggested changes in the franchise's approach to playing him are made?

This is really a common misconception.  I try very hard not to be swayed by the emotions of the moment, which seems to be some wild mass ride that fans go on.  Personally, he annoys the crap out of me and I'd rather him be traded for someone I would like better, but I feel that he has gotten a HORRIBLE deal this year.  I think the fans have just scapegoated this cat and I for one, if it was Chris Bosh (who I seriously despise) that was being passed up for open shots while Luka continually takes contested shots, I'd be just as adamant.  I will always struggle against someone who I feel is being misevaluated and given a raw deal.

What it should say to you guys is this.  If a player who personally annoys me as much as KP is getting defended by me, I must really believe in what I'm saying.   I feel people are just intoxicated with Luka (and for good reason), but it feels like someone who won a lump sum of a million dollars in the bank and throws out all good financial sense because "who cares?  Got money"...  In this case, the Mavs need to maximize, not exhaust...and we saw that problem in the playoffs.

He simply cannot run at the usage rate that we ran him at last year and win...I want him to stay.  So points have to come from someone else.

The post up dilemma is partially a self-manufactured problem that could be solved with scheme if they would do it.   They literally give him one way to post up (slip screen and pin deep in the lane) in the offensive flow and then they don't have anyone who can make an on time on target pass to him at all, then they wonder why his timing and rhythm is off. 

It's insane.  I posted a few weeks ago how I've never seen him on the block for a jumphook until the Clippers series.  They had him run a simple cross lane from the top right elbow around some traffic to the low block on the left, the wing actually gave him a good pass -> quick jump hook and 2 points.  Just like that.  Smooth, on time, and in the right place and honestly, haven't seen that all year.  That jump hook is literally available off that action any time they want to run it, but they won't.  That's an easy answer to the complete ineptitude of the offense when Luka goes to the bench, if for no other reason that it causes the defense to move, to create space for cutters or ball movement to get you a better shot.

I posted a video of the plays that Rick ran for Dirk to get to that same spot.  You had baseline screens from a guard, cross screens from the top of the key, screen down pop out...so many different ways to get him open or to his spot before the defender could push him off.   He's not Dirk by any means, but he's not trash there either.  But having him getting beat up by a player is not the only way to get a decent shot there.

He is basically given one way to get to a post and it's not what he does well, so he's set up to fail on that.  I personally think that they were like "if you want to post up, you'll have to get there on your own", because the analytics don't like 2 point shots and they want him to be off of it.   I was not shocked at Luka's question to Carlisle in a game "Who's in charge - you or Bob?"  I think that handling of Porzingis, is a very widget, NBA2K analytics type of handling, rather than recognizing that each basketball player is a person with a personality and he's high maintenance a little there for sure...i hate it, but as long as he's here, the best scenario is he operates in that 2nd best player role until we get a better player to put in front of him.

I think it's unwise to think that the second best player on your team shouldn't have any plays run for him while we just try to live off DoeDoe and Jalen Brunson...really?  I like them both better than KP, but this isn't a popularity contest, it's basketball.   As much as I appreciate THJ, he's not a second option either...and any time those three players are carrying the offensive load.

The truth is that we want to save Luka's usage rate in the first 3 quarters and then when it gets tight at the end, THAT'S WHEN we want him to become the sole initiator, not the entire game that he's in there.   

There was a play that just showed kind of how the philosophy seems to be in the Clippers game.  He gave the ball up to JB, and then stood at the logo while they basically went 4 on 4 with a screen from Maxi and JB...while KP was in the corner standing there.   It was like there was really nothing for him to do without the ball.  That's insane to me.  I KNOW that he's better than that, but we aren't coaching better than that right now, unfortunately.  The message isn't being sent at all or it's not being received...either way, it's bad.

So, long story short, for me, the best option IN ANY UNIVERSE with what we have is to find a way to make KP productive either because he becomes more of what we need or he's better to trade him, but all this bellyaching about the fact that we have to run a play to get him open is crazy.  The fact is that there hasn't been a big man in the history of the league --- and I've said this far too many times --- but no big man, that doesn't depend on the offensive set AND the PG to get the ball to him in a successful position.

i feel right now, the glasses are colored with KP hate and anything done for him to maximize him, any shot he misses, ANYTHING, and everyone throws up their hands and goes 'WHAT AN IDIOT!  HE'S TRASH", when the numbers don't really bear that out.  Personally, I look at the surgery he had, the role change they expected this year, the condensed season and no physically prep....it was a recipe for a failure year for him.  

Honestly, if they trade him for someone good, then I don't have to feel like I have to be the balancer of the board on this issue any more...but here's what I feel will happen.  They will trade him for some nonsense package like Davis Bertans and Mark Bryant and we'll be in that hell of mediocrity....it's ridiculous...and then every year will be the same story - "This roster isn't good enough" and in three years, Luka is demanding a trade.

The FO has wasted their off-season going after some Moneyball or crap targets and we are up against the gun right now...so while I didn't want the status quo changed going into this off-season -- I wanted a solid plan and our FO in the starting blocks ready to go immediately --- at least, hopefully, we won't have this wackadoodle FA pursuits over that.

As far as Simmons....I'm very down on him, so that's more about him than KP.  He has refused to develop a credible 3 point shot, giving the "I'm goign to do things that I'm good at" nonsense for 3 years, and it's showing...  I don't believe in him like I once did.  2 years ago, I probably would have said "Trade him straight up and we'll ge that 3 point shot going", but now...he's Fool's Gold as a second max player.  Great, he can run the break and dunk...I love his defense (except he's getting totally torched this series - but Trae is playing great) that's not enough any more.  He's literally the one player in the NBA that can take Luka one on one and render him less ineffective than anyone else, but that's not enough anymore sadly, if you want to be a Max player.

If you can't even shoot from 3 at all, then you had better be able to lock people down on the other end of the court.

You want to talk about irony.  People that cite that KP can't take advantage of the smaller guard on him and want to trade for Ben Simmons, are watching him get cooked on one end by a small guard and then not even attempting to make him play defense on the other end.  It's amazing.  You want to talk about who can't take advantage of the smaller player --- geez.

---

No better way to admit that you aren´t even watching the games. Just posting whatever fits your agenda. They are defending him with bigs or big wings.  Mostly Collins. Sometimes Gallinari or Bogdanovic. Even Capela is more of an option than Young or Lou Williams.
Next part: Defense. Simmons is not the problem. Actually doing a good job against Young. Against Simmons Young is 16/35 from the floor. 3/13 from 3. Only attempted 6 FTs. 53.1% TS. That elite defense.
Problem is that just like any other team the Hawks are hunting mismatches and attacking the bigs. Embiid and Howard cannot move their feet. Curry and Korkmaz are mediocre defenders.

Simmons is not a high volume scorer. Never has been. That´s the on advantage KP has over him. Not saying that he hasn´t been a problem on offense in the last three games but even at his worst he is still better than KP because of all the other things he can do on the basketball court.

I do watch the games.  I'm not responding to nonsense past that.  Just stop it.

[dirkfansince1998]

The problem is there's zero evidence of Simmons being a good center, it's simply conjecture because he's so obviously bad at his current role. I don't see it as being any different than the wishcasting that KP can suddenly become a great center.

By far the most damning aspect of Simmons as an NBA player is his absolute, steadfast refusal to improve himself. He's still the same player as when he came into the NBA, he REFUSES to work on his shot despite how much that would help his game and his team. That tells me he's just satisfied cashing his checks because he knows his athleticism alone can keep him in the NBA.

For his career Simmons averages 18/9/7 without Embiid. Just a few weeks ago in the last game against the Wizards Simmons played center on defense. Starting next to Curry, Thybull, Harris and Green. Went for 19/10/11. Blowout victory for the 76ers.

[TXBamanut]

The problem is there's zero evidence of Simmons being a good center, it's simply conjecture because he's so obviously bad at his current role. I don't see it as being any different than the wishcasting that KP can suddenly become a great center.

By far the most damning aspect of Simmons as an NBA player is his absolute, steadfast refusal to improve himself. He's still the same player as when he came into the NBA, he REFUSES to work on his shot despite how much that would help his game and his team. That tells me he's just satisfied cashing his checks because he knows his athleticism alone can keep him in the NBA.

THANK YOU.  My objection to Ben Simmons isn't as much about Kp as it's about him as a player.  If people think that trading KP, and giving up the serious room he creates for Luka on the offensive end to move and for others, just by being out there are going to be unmissed because Ben Simmons can dunk...wow.  Come on.  

This shot is him WITH THE BALL.  no one is even looking at him, much less making a move to go to him.  Dwight Powell gets more attention at the 3 point line thatn him.  Boban gets more attention at the 3 point line than Ben Simmons.   I don't want Luka trying to drive into that quicksand, playing 3 on 1 more than he ever has.



If I could get a superstar from Philadelphia, I'd rather get Embiid and then let Simmons and KP go off to the "what could have been" hell that they could live in.

There is literally NO REASON, other than laziness, that he hasn't developed a simply catch and shoot 3 for at least 33% on 1-3 attempts per game, not 30% on 10 attempts for the season....really.

[Branduil]

For his career Simmons averages 18/9/7 without Embiid. Just a few weeks ago in the last game against the Wizards Simmons played center on defense. Starting next to Curry, Thybull, Harris and Green. Went for 19/10/11. Blowout victory for the 76ers.

The Wizards are a bad team who barely made the playoffs. We see this every year when they get deeper into the playoffs, teams start getting serious about defense and Simmons vanishes.

[KillerLeft]

I'd rather get Embiid

Oh, well get in line on that one. I think we'd all agree. That's like a Philly fan saying they'd rather have Luka than KP. 

Thanks for the response to my earlier question. I'm still not sure I fully understand why it's such an important issue for you, but I appreciate the thoughtful attempt.

[dirkfansince1998]

I do watch the games.  I'm not responding to nonsense past that.  Just stop it.

Make a case. I dare you. Show me some film. Show me the numbers.  Young and Williams aren´t guarding Simmons. Might happen on the occasional switch. Collins is the go to defender. Young is scoring against Simmons. But not efficient. I just provided the numbers.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627732/head-to-head/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Edit: Nice of you to remove the personal attack.

[TXBamanut]

Oh, well get in line on that one. I think we'd all agree. That's like a Philly fan saying they'd rather have Luka than KP. 

Thanks for the response to my earlier question. I'm still not sure I fully understand why it's such an important issue for you, but I appreciate the thoughtful attempt.

Haha, yeah, that's kind of a "duh" statement for sure and totally never going to happen.

The issue is important because, as constructed, it's the best way to get our Mavs to win games and maximize Luka in my opinion.  I think there is no universe where killing KP in the media or in the fandom or in the practice hall and putting him in the corner to do nothing that gets the Mavs anywhere closer to the goal I said.  It gets us closer to giving him the Tariqu Abdul Wahad treatment and production level....He's GOT to play better...for trade or for production...and the Mavs have to work toward that end.  I have lost all confidence in the gameplan they have for him to make that happen...so please, next coach, help.

[BigDirk41]

I would do the trade because Simmons has more trade value than KP in my opinion. Either flip Simmons or give him a season and see if you can teach him to shoot. Either way, he would be a positive asset and he's really young.

[cow]

I would do the trade because Simmons has more trade value than KP in my opinion. Either flip Simmons or give him a season and see if you can teach him to shoot. Either way, he would be a positive asset and he's really young.

It's not about teaching him to shoot, it's about getting him to shoot.  I still give up a draft assets and KP for the swap.

[DrMav]

I would do it for sure, but I also acknowledge there is a greater than 0% chance the Mavs end up losing that trade with Philly too once we see the results.

[ThisIStheYear]

Funny to read all these analyses of Simmons and KP that focus on offense.  Simmons is a great defender.  We saw the numbers above about how he’s handling Trae (who’s about as bad a matchup as possible and still has been reduced to a mere volume scorer against Simmons), and we all know how Luka, one of the best offensive players I’ve ever seen, struggles against him.  You are trading for defense.  The offense is a bonus. KP’s claim to fame is that for a guy his size, he’s an average perimeter offensive player. He shoots about the league average from the three for his career.  It’s interesting to see a tall, lanky dude make threes at about the league average, but the NBA doesn’t grade on a curve. Average is average.  His defense though used to be well above average.  Now, it’s terrible, so he’s borderline unplayable with Luka.  Thus, the trade of a bad defender for a great defender. The offense just doesn’t factor in that much to the decision making. And Simmons has enough offensive skill to contribute on that side anyway.  Plus, KP isn’t a guy who’s likely to stay healthy. He’s headed down the Ralph Sampson path.  So, what are you really giving up?