NEWS: RC out | Kidd hired as head coach & assembling staff

[Chicagojk]

I think getting a better coach than Carlisle is going to be very difficult.  But that is ok.   If you can find a guy who really communicates well and maybe carries some weight (former player?), this could be fine.   If it is a younger coach (Billups?) having a veteran staff will be extremely important.

The much more important hire is the GM/VP imo.   That is where the future of the franchise will be determined over the next few years.   He will need to work with Cuban and at times takes his suggestions, but at times push back.   Cuban will constantly bring ideas to whoever is the VP/GM.  Being able to talk to Cuban and get his message/vision across will be very important.   I feel if the choice is Finley, it is someone who Cuban is comfortable with and that is not what I want.  Finley may be really good.  I have absolutely no idea, but I am really hoping for a different direction.   I just fear with Donnie and Carlisle leaving, Mark is sort of feeling alone after a long partnership with both.   If someone from the outside is brought in, that probably means Finley is out or diminished.   Is Mark at the place where he has no one around him who he feels comfortable with?

[DaRiv]

I think there's an outside chance at:

C. "Handing off the day-to-day operations to someone I trust may not be the worst thing in the world because it will allow me to focus on my other businesses and crypto trades. I just have to find the right guy."

Cuban took it on the chin yesterday with a big crypto position he had. Bad week for him.

[omahen]

I think getting a better coach than Carlisle is going to be very difficult.  But that is ok.   If you can find a guy who really communicates well and maybe carries some weight (former player?), this could be fine.   If it is a younger coach (Billups?) having a veteran staff will be extremely important.

Agree. Coach mainly needs to be a good manager, dealing with different characters, keeping Luka on the ground, managing KP if he stays. This is way more important than X and O's. Allowing him to build competetent and trustworthy stuff perhaps with a big name or two would also mean a lot in the process of improving the image of the team.

The much more important hire is the GM/VP imo.

Agree. Perhaps the idea Following and Prescott gave is good - have Finley in some position as the guy who knows the environment and above him the new GM, president or whatever you call him.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

After listening to Tim McMahon on Zach Lowe's podcast I'm coming more convinced that regardless of the "optics", everything that has been done this week ultimately had to be done.    This week is the bloodletting, but the problem ultimately isn't the bloodletting it's the festering infection that has built up over years in the franchise.    Carlisle is an extremely high level Xs and Os coach, but his people skills suck.   They sucked long before Luka got here.   Just listen to any interview with him, he's a bully and a jackass.   And, sorry, the human relationship side is an essential part of the job of a head coach in the NBA, just like the Xs and Os.   And in this day and age, they probably matter more than the Xs and Os.   The Luka and KP relationship should have never deteriorated to this level.   There is too much at stake between those two for the franchise.   The head coach is the manager of the lockerroom, and he should have gotten KP and Luka in a room together a long time ago and nipped this thing in the bud .. but we know that's not who Rick is or what he does.  

Rick was essentially going to be on the "hot seat" even if he stayed because he couldn't get along with Luka.  Just like he couldn't get along with so many other previously players,  particularly ball handlers.   He also would have inevitably clashed with the new GM because he's accustomed to his "33% share of the decision making".  So as long as we're bringing in a new General Manager,  we might as well go all the way and have the new GM involved in the hiring process for the new head coach.    No need to prolong the inevitable, and better to do it now than in midseason next year and waste another year of Luka under contract with some interim head coach in the playoffs.    I really am indifferent about Mosely, but whoever the next Mavs Head Coach is he better have extremely high level people skills.  You can find veteran coaches to fill out as assistant coaching staff to do Xs and Os and gameplan implementation  stuff (that's also what analytics departments are for).  

Donnie isn't some hapless victim of a "usurper" the way his good buddies in the Dallas media want to create that narrative.   He's been in his share of behind the scnees power wars over the years (Rosas), this is just the first time he came up on the losing end.   Voulgaris became the "shadow GM", because Cuban lost faith in Donnie ... simple as that.    And with good reason, because his last 3 years as a GM have been a miserable failure.   He decided to go scorched earth on the way out the door by feeding dirty secrets to Cato, either through him or his proxies, which is Bush League.   I have no doubt that Carlisle will find find a new employer in quick work because of his reputation around the league, but I would be surprised if Donnie ever gets another GM opportunity in the NBA and that should tell you all you need to know about his reputation in the league.    

I really don't care if Voulgaris stays or goes ... frankly I think a lot of these analytics guys are a dime a dozen and analytics is just table stakes these days in the NBA rather than an edge.   That will be up for the new GM to decide.   But I think  Voulgaris is a convenient scapegoat bad guy because he's an arrogant jackass and probably has a lot of enemies in the building, but Rick and Donnie have more than played their parts in this mess too and responsible for their own undoings, not Voulgaris.

[Hypermav]

Doncic who was certain of signing a supermax contract is now doubtful to stay with the Mavs. The 22-year-old is one of the most marketable players in the NBA.

He has shown his ability as a player and can be a long term stalwart for any franchise. Rumors are linking him to the New York Knicks but they are far more materializing.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-luka-...in-dallas/

How the heck do they know it is doubtful. Serenity now.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Doncic who was certain of signing a supermax contract is now doubtful to stay with the Mavs. The 22-year-old is one of the most marketable players in the NBA.

He has shown his ability as a player and can be a long term stalwart for any franchise. Rumors are linking him to the New York Knicks but they are far more materializing.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-luka-...in-dallas/

How the heck do they know it is doubtful. Serenity now.

"Luka is an immature, selfish primadonna and nobody likes him .... and here's how the Knicks can get him !!!"

[omahen]

Doncic who was certain of signing a supermax contract is now doubtful to stay with the Mavs. The 22-year-old is one of the most marketable players in the NBA.

He has shown his ability as a player and can be a long term stalwart for any franchise. Rumors are linking him to the New York Knicks but they are far more materializing.

I think we shouldn't be even posting this click bait articles. It is obvious they have zero insider knowledge, just taking a bit of info here and there and writing a story as dramatically as possible.

That predraft report is not new. So far Dallas was painting a picture that Doncic is super well liked by everyone. I never heard from Europe side any rumor this was not true in Real or National team. It always looked like Doncic is extremely easy going and liked. That's why I sincerely doubt there is much truth in it. Just look at his media appearances - he would have to be a totally different person behind the scenes. 

Doncic not signing that extension is just crap, imho. What is his alternative, really? Play out his rookie contract and take the QO? So risk two years everyting will stay ok instead of sign for 200 mil now? He is restricted and no one can offer him more money than Dallas. He can always demand a trade and extension is not preventing that. It would be insane to reject extension.

[SleepingHero]

I missed the main discussion yesterday, but I want to add that Luka and RC seemed to never really *click* and I think it was a matter of time before RC got canned. I mean heck this entire season there has been a small coalition of reasonable takes mentioning RC not being right for this team.

If we could see it, RC definitely could.

I mean look at all these exampels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhCpb92XYlI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7_feBoO7uI

This one the most egregious: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1ZgZ6eg9GY

"Don't call the timeout when we don't f**** need it"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGIdwu6LuGg

Remember this one?



The fact that there are this many examples in 3 years, on top of the reported tension between them, made me think there was no way RC would have lasted even 1 more season as the Mavs H.C.

[omahen]

Remember this one?

I can agree there might be tensions, but I don't agree these videos prove it. They are totally normal reactions to me. Would you be happy if your teammate took the ball for the final shot from you and couldn't even shoot it in time? Or KP case - forcing a three with 8 seconds left while Mavs had time for full attack. That substitution that didn't happen is just a funny event. Or if I ask it another way - would any other team leader react differently?

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I can agree there might be tensions, but I don't agree these videos prove it. They are totally normal reactions to me. Would you be happy if your teammate took the ball for the final shot from you and couldn't even shoot it in time? Or KP case - forcing a three with 8 seconds left while Mavs had time for full attack. That substitution that didn't happen is just a funny event. Or if I ask it another way - would any other team leader react differently?

Yeah, as McMahon said Luka just "runs hot", and I think he's just going to have these kinda outbursts about things on the floor in the heat of the moment.  I think there will be some with the next head coach too, even if he and Luka have a great relationship.   I think the Rick and Luka problems are deeper than this stuff.

[Kammrath]

WOJ:Cuban can be a great selling point in FA...

We need to let this play out. 

MacMahon reported that Luka didn't like RC mostly because of how RC treated other players and people. We MIGHT see that Donnie/RC were the issue with drawing free agents. Who knows. Cuban may not be the problem so many are assuming.

[SleepingHero]

I can agree there might be tensions, but I don't agree these videos prove it. They are totally normal reactions to me. Would you be happy if your teammate took the ball for the final shot from you and couldn't even shoot it in time? Or KP case - forcing a three with 8 seconds left while Mavs had time for full attack. That substitution that didn't happen is just a funny event. Or if I ask it another way - would any other team leader react differently?

These are normal reactions for sure, but the common theme in every single one of them is Luka singling out the coaching decisions that led to these plays happening. 

Every one. THATS the difference. I can't say how other stars would react mostly because those kind of reactions don't happen often out in the open like that (just shows how much Luka wants to win and his emotions), but I do know that Kobe/Lebron/Dirk usually get mad at the player making the mistake not the coach. 

These clips were just symptoms of the overall dissatisfaction Luka had with Carlisle. Cato did say that there was a growing belief in the organization that Luka had largely tuned RC out the last year and a half. Seeing these clips with that context (the later ones) it makes a lot of sense and lends credence to that.

[Kammrath]

After listening to Tim McMahon on Zach Lowe's podcast I'm coming more convinced that regardless of the "optics", everything that has been done this week ultimately had to be done.    This week is the bloodletting, but the problem ultimately isn't the bloodletting it's the festering infection that has built up over years in the franchise.    Carlisle is an extremely high level Xs and Os coach, but his people skills suck.   They sucked long before Luka got here.   Just listen to any interview with him, he's a bully and a jackass.   And, sorry, the human relationship side is an essential part of the job of a head coach in the NBA, just like the Xs and Os.   And in this day and age, they probably matter more than the Xs and Os.   The Luka and KP relationship should have never deteriorated to this level.   There is too much at stake between those two for the franchise.   The head coach is the manager of the lockerroom, and he should have gotten KP and Luka in a room together a long time ago and nipped this thing in the bud .. but we know that's not who Rick is or what he does.  

Rick was essentially going to be on the "hot seat" even if he stayed because he couldn't get along with Luka.  Just like he couldn't get along with so many other previously players,  particularly ball handlers.   He also would have inevitably clashed with the new GM because he's accustomed to his "33% share of the decision making".  So as long as we're bringing in a new General Manager,  we might as well go all the way and have the new GM involved in the hiring process for the new head coach.    No need to prolong the inevitable, and better to do it now than in midseason next year and waste another year of Luka under contract with some interim head coach in the playoffs.    I really am indifferent about Mosely, but whoever the next Mavs Head Coach is he better have extremely high level people skills.  You can find veteran coaches to fill out as assistant coaching staff to do Xs and Os and gameplan implementation  stuff (that's also what analytics departments are for).  

Donnie isn't some hapless victim of a "usurper" the way his good buddies in the Dallas media want to create that narrative.   He's been in his share of behind the scnees power wars over the years (Rosas), this is just the first time he came up on the losing end.   Voulgaris became the "shadow GM", because Cuban lost faith in Donnie ... simple as that.    And with good reason, because his last 3 years as a GM have been a miserable failure.   He decided to go scorched earth on the way out the door by feeding dirty secrets to Cato, either through him or his proxies, which is Bush League.   I have no doubt that Carlisle will find find a new employer in quick work because of his reputation around the league, but I would be surprised if Donnie ever gets another GM opportunity in the NBA and that should tell you all you need to know about his reputation in the league.    

I really don't care if Voulgaris stays or goes ... frankly I think a lot of these analytics guys are a dime a dozen and analytics is just table stakes these days in the NBA rather than an edge.   That will be up for the new GM to decide.   But I think  Voulgaris is a convenient scapegoat bad guy because he's an arrogant jackass and probably has a lot of enemies in the building, but Rick and Donnie have more than played their parts in this mess too and responsible for their own undoings, not Voulgaris.

MUST READ. Fantastic synthesis. 

The bolded part above in your post is so key. We have now learned the reason Mosley was so integral alongside RC was because RC is so bad at personal relationships and player treatment. RC in a sense was just another version of Voulgaris. I think in this day and age the single most important coaching skill is interpersonal relationships. RC is a good coach in so many ways, but his greatest weakness was what is needed most here with Luka (a sensitive people person) and KP (a sensitive introvert).

[Mavs2021]

MUST READ. Fantastic synthesis. 

The bolded part above in your post is so key. We have now learned the reason Mosley was so integral alongside RC was because RC is so bad at personal relationships and player treatment. RC in a sense was just another version of Voulgaris. I think in this day and age the single most important coaching skill is interpersonal relationships. RC is a good coach in so many ways, but his greatest weakness was what is needed most here with Luka (a sensitive people person) and KP (a sensitive introvert).

It also shows the catastrophic judgment of Nelson and Cuban. Now it sounds like JJB was basically an intermediary between Doncic/Carlisle, that somewhat kept the whole situation from escalating in previous years. Cuban/Nelson weren´t even aware of the problem and opted for Burke over JJB. If we analyze the absolute inability of this team to play-make without Luka, it was also an awful basketball decision, but certainly an even worse roster construction decision.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I know people are skeptical, but I think the Mavs job can be very appealing to Ujiri.    The reason he's (prossibly) leaving Toronto is he is upset that Toronto's owners haven't done everything possible to make Toronto a premiere NBA franchise. 

""But yeah, there is a lot of work to be done, honestly. I don't want to call out anybody here. But there is a lot of work we need to address. And, to be honest, me being back here, there is going to be a lot of things I have to address with ownership in terms of some of those things we need to really address with Toronto."

And no doubt Cuban might can be hard to work with and has a gigantic ego, but he'll leave no stone unturned to give the Mavs advantage.  From being on the cutting edge of analytics to hiring Casey Smith to head the strength and condititoning/training staff, etc.  Cuban will go all out.   I think Cuban's reputation around the league as an owner is held in a lot higher esteem than it is among Mav fans and Dallas media.   I think Ujiri is particularly bitter about Toronto having to play all year in Tampa, and reading between the lines it seems like he feels that the Raptors ownership didn't do enough to push on the league or the politicians whoever to remedy the situation.   Cuban has no problems throwing a huge bitch to the league or whoever to go to bat for the Mavs. 


Second of all, with Carlisle and Donnie gone and Voulgaris not under contract, he'll basically have a blank slate to build the infrastructure of the franchise how he wants it from the coaching staff to the scouting department to the analytics.   He's not forced to inherit anyone.  

Third of all, for all Cuban's faults, he is loyal to his guys ... almost to a fault, and offers organizational stability.   The previous President/GM  was been given 24 years with the franchise.     The head coach was been given 13.    After not getting past the 1st round of the playoffs in over 10 years, neither the firing of the Head Coach or the General Manager should be shocking but it is because  Cuban doesn't like these kinds of changes.   The next General Manager doesn't have to worry about the Owner waking up on the wrong side of the bed after a bad loss and firing you while you're halfway into implementing your organizational game plan.  

Fourth of all ... he'll have a generational 22 year old superstar under contract for 4-5 seasons.   Ujiri has already been to the Mountain Top, and now that's what he expects. He's not happy just being competitive and comfortable (see below).    And you can't win an NBA Championship without a Luka caliber player, and they don't just call 1-800-GENERATIONAL-SUPERSTAR and order one off a catalog.    Particularly if you don't play in the New York or California markets, and those gigs are currently taken.    The Mavs have roster problems, but it's finding players #2-#5.     You can find those guys, but you're not just stumbling into a Luka.   Look how fast Morey took that Sixers job  after leaving the Rockets and why?  Because Embiid and Simmons were waiting there.     And Embiid and Simmons were flawed as a pairing, and they're still flawed as we're finding in the playoffs, but at the end of the day these talents are rare and it's better to have them and have to figure out what to do with them than not have them and try finding them.   

Look at this recent Ujiri quote and you can see where his head is at  ....

Let me tell you something, guys: Everybody has forgotten what happened two years ago. OK, yes, we won. But nobody cares anymore, OK? We want to win another one. That's what you want to do. Yeah, you want to prepare yourself to win another one. Not play in the play-in game, not play in the playoffs, you want to win a championship. Everybody's like, 'Why don't you get into the play-in?' Play-in for what? We want to win a championship here, and we have to put ourselves in position.

Now the crux is how he will get along with Cuban ... and this is just a hunch of mine, but I think Cuban will be more amenable to giving the next GM/Team President more control than people think.   This isn't 2005 anymore.   Now he's a 63 year old man with a family and other interests like crypto or possibly politics.   He's been running the Mavs like an internet start up that he built with his frat buddies and putting in that time commitment.   But now, with all the sexual harassment scandals and this latest drama it's just been a series of headaches.    I think he wants to step away from being at the socks and jocks level of running the organization and just enjoy his expensive toy and enjoy the the fun stuff like throwing a party at the games like Steve Ballmer and Joseph Lacob do.     He just has to know that there is someone competent to hand it off to.   Otherwise, why not just stick with Donnie?

[MFFL]

Jul 22, 2013
Dallas Mavericks hired Houston Rockets vice president Gersson Rosas to be the new General Manager

Oct 29, 2013
Gersson Rosas said Tuesday the decision to resign as GM of the Dallas Mavericks was "solely" his

[Chicagojk]

Jul 22, 2013
Dallas Mavericks hired Houston Rockets vice president Gersson Rosas to be the new General Manager

Oct 29, 2013
Gersson Rosas said Tuesday the decision to resign as GM of the Dallas Mavericks was "solely" his

Wow...what that 2013?  I thought it was more recent.    I am glad our front office got back on track right after this though

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Jul 22, 2013
Dallas Mavericks hired Houston Rockets vice president Gersson Rosas to be the new General Manager

Oct 29, 2013
Gersson Rosas said Tuesday the decision to resign as GM of the Dallas Mavericks was "solely" his

He solely came to the decision to leave the Mavs when he realized he was essentially going to be treated like Donnie's gopher intern rather than an actual GM.

[Kammrath]

I know people are skeptical, but I think the Mavs job can be very appealing to Ujiri. 

I'm not skeptical....I am skeptical of those who assume Cuban doesn't have the ability to defer to Ujiri. Cuban has massive faults, but he has shown lots of qualities that should give fans hope in this situation. 

IMO Cuban wants to win more than he wants to be GM. I think if he can get Ujiri by deferring his authority I think he will. Time will tell.

[DallasBasketball]

Fish describes DISASTEROUS chain of events over the last few days. Triangle of trust is dead. Shadow GM. Cuban completely unprepared for recent developments.

https://youtu.be/he51f1LHOlg