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Luka already has the "core" group of guys that he has been playing with or "could" be playing with for a 3-5 year window:
- KP under multi-year contract
- Powell, DFS, Maxi, Brunson all been with Luka since his rookie year
- THJ might be a mult-year guy if he is retained
So with that I think its fine to swap in some shorter term pieces. I even think its okay to shuffle everybody not named Luka if it makes your team better.
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03-29-2021, 02:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2021, 02:44 PM by ItsGoTime.)
(03-29-2021, 02:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: This isn't how basketball works. Not every player has a "mulligan year." Why would you say this when I said "There are guys like that in the NBA." The wording of "there are guys" is not in any way the wording used to describe "every player".
(03-29-2021, 02:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: J Rich is more of an open question but not trending in the right direction. There is no guarantee he is going to pan out. That's why I said "I believe", there is no guarantee in this, it's just my belief, that I have previously presented as a theory of mine. A theory isn't proven, so guarantee shouldn't be in your wording either.
Once we get past these two issues, there's nothing you're responding to me about, so why quote me?
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(03-29-2021, 02:36 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I don't believe in this BS that you are trying to find guys that can play with Luka/KP for 4 years. That's just not how the NBA works.
You wouldn't view every player through the lens of that criteria (going back to my grocery list, guys like Howard/McGee and probably TJ wouldn't qualify). But with the state of the Mavericks and the relative uncertainty about KP (health/fit/desire to be here), younger players would be the preference. No one is guaranteed to fit, Holmes could be the next Delon but if he does work and because if his age, he has the opportunity to play here long term (4+ years). That's something the likes of Lowry doesn't give you.
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(03-29-2021, 02:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Why would you say this when I said "There are guys like that in the NBA." The wording of "there are guys" is not in any way the wording used to describe "every player".
That's why I said "I believe", there is no guarantee in this, it's just my belief, that I have previously presented as a theory of mine. A theory isn't proven, so guarantee shouldn't be in your wording either.
Once we get past these two issues, there's nothing you're responding to me about, so why quote me?
It's fine, I just take issue that you can chalk up J Rich's poor year to a mulligan year. I mean it is or it isn't. Just like Delon Wright Mavs might feel like they have to move on. In my Mike Conley scenario I would be trying to get him on a 1 yr deal so that it's easy to move off of should he be washed up next season.
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03-29-2021, 02:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2021, 02:52 PM by cow.)
(03-29-2021, 02:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: Luka already has the "core" group of guys that he has been playing with or "could" be playing with for a 3-5 year window:
- KP under multi-year contract
- Powell, DFS, Maxi, Brunson all been with Luka since his rookie year
- THJ might be a mult-year guy if he is retained
So with that I think its fine to swap in some shorter term pieces. I even think its okay to shuffle everybody not named Luka if it makes your team better.
See above in regards to KP. Powell, DFS and Brunson probably should not be starting alongside Luka.
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(03-29-2021, 02:46 PM)cow Wrote: You wouldn't view every player through the lens of that criteria (going back to my grocery list, guys like Howard/McGee and probably TJ wouldn't qualify). But with the state of the Mavericks and the relative uncertainty about KP (health/fit/desire to be here), younger players would be the preference. No one is guaranteed to fit, Holmes could be the next Delon but if he does work and because if his age, he has the opportunity to play here long term (4+ years). That's something the likes of Lowry doesn't give you.
I am not against Holmes either. I like him but he might be one of those guys that gets a bigger contract than people expect and a starting job because some team thinks he's the next Christian Wood.
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03-29-2021, 02:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2021, 02:52 PM by cow.)
(03-29-2021, 02:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: It's fine, I just take issue that you can chalk up J Rich's poor year to a mulligan year. I mean it is or it isn't. Just like Delon Wright Mavs might feel like they have to move on. In my Mike Conley scenario I would be trying to get him on a 1 yr deal so that it's easy to move off of should he be washed up next season.
I think the best scenario for JRich is that he opts in. You evaluate him the rest of this season/post-season (hopefully), have a regular offseason (again, wishful thinking) and then see how he looks the beginning of next year. If the Mavs still aren't happy with him, he's an expiring at the TDL.
(03-29-2021, 02:49 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: I am not against Holmes either. I like him but he might be one of those guys that gets a bigger contract than people expect and a starting job because some team thinks he's the next Christian Wood.
I think Holmes will get a decent payday, but THT is getting the next Christian Wood treatment.
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I am not sure Mavs don't trade J Rich if he opts in. A lot of uncertainty around J Rich atm but still a lot of basketball to play. He obv looked terrible without KP and Luka out there but I could see him playing well tonight.
As an aside the other weird thing with him is Rick's choice of defensive assignment. Sometimes J Rich is on the best offensive guard/wing and sometimes he is on somebody random. Luke I don't know why J Rich was guarding Josh Hart some of the night the other night.
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A big difference btwn J Rich and the Delon Wright situation is that Rick is playing J Rich a lot of minutes and keeping him in the starting lineup. We knew Wright was in trouble bc he wasn't getting minutes or a regular rotation role from early on.
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(03-29-2021, 02:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: It's fine, I just take issue that you can chalk up J Rich's poor year to a mulligan year. I mean it is or it isn't. Just like Delon Wright Mavs might feel like they have to move on. In my Mike Conley scenario I would be trying to get him on a 1 yr deal so that it's easy to move off of should he be washed up next season. It's a theory of mine that I wouldn't mind seeing played out, but if we move on from him too, that's fine with me as well. He brings defense, houndingly so, regardless of what the stats say, and that, I believe is contagious like passing from Luka is on offense. I still like him as a player for our team and am hoping like wild that I am right if we keep him.
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(03-29-2021, 03:08 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: A big difference btwn J Rich and the Delon Wright situation is that Rick is playing J Rich a lot of minutes and keeping him in the starting lineup. We knew Wright was in trouble bc he wasn't getting minutes or a regular rotation role from early on.
??? Wright was playing a bit over 20 minutes per game. Very stable throughout the season. Very stable rotation role. Not getting minutes was not his problem...
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03-29-2021, 03:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2021, 04:00 PM by hakeemfaan.)
The Mavs have to play assetball more than moneyball. Moneyball is all about a small market team identifying solid pieces at bargain rates and then letting them go earlier than later to get the next wave of bargain talent in there. Even with Cuban a bit reluctant to pay the repeater tax, no one can call his franchise small market or call him cheap.
The MBT issue is that they rarely think out of the box. Picks are not hoarded and moved around to get better picks or players. Picks are devalued and thrown in as an extra bagel in a baker’s dozen box. Players are evaluated strictly on fit. For eg they never thought of doing what GS did in paying a hefty contract for DeAngelo just to trade him. GS did not want him just like the Mavs didn’t. However they looked at him as an asset for another move.
When coveted FAs time and again are implicitly telling you that your franchise is nothing special, you have to acquire assets differently. Be it via drafts, via picks and trades or via thinking out of the box like GS did.
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(03-29-2021, 03:32 PM)omahen Wrote: ??? Wright was playing a bit over 20 minutes per game. Very stable throughout the season. Very stable rotation role. Not getting minutes was not his problem...
Looking at his minute logs they were steadier than I thought. Obv he was an after-thought in the playoffs despite the Mavs being low on bodies. At that point it was clear he was not in their long-term plans. I definitely think J Rich is in a better position than that atm.
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(03-29-2021, 03:28 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: It's a theory of mine that I wouldn't mind seeing played out, but if we move on from him too, that's fine with me as well. He brings defense, houndingly so, regardless of what the stats say, and that, I believe is contagious like passing from Luka is on offense. I still like him as a player for our team and am hoping like wild that I am right if we keep him.
Some nights I see the defense and sometimes I don't. Like against the Clippers which are clearly a team that the Mavs want to beat every time they play you see J Rich playing like I picture him playing in the playoffs. Other nights I don't notice him at all.
And like I said I don't get his defensive assignments some nights. I don't know why J Rich is guarding Bledsoe and Hart and other random guys instead of Brandon Ingram. I think Rick likes to put him on guys in the corner so that he can help block guys at the rim I guess? I would rather him hound the primary ball handler because that's what I thought he was here to do. I don't get it.
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I don't expect the Mavs to hand out any 3 year deals unless they are for a) a star (unlikely) b) a cheaper deal that's easy to move c) a TO in that last year. KP's PO is 3 years from now and even if he opts in he might get moved. 2023 seems to me to be the next "reset" year where they could reshuffle the entire roster around Luka if they want/need to. KP could be moved prior to that of course depending on how things go.
Mavs run the risk of treading water again this summer. Resign THJ, make some moves around the edges to have a decent 9 man rotation but still enter the season as a 6-8th seed.
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(03-29-2021, 08:17 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: The contenders won't have cap space for Conley.
I know I’m behind and this conversation has probably moved on somewhat, but I seriously doubt Conley is taking a short term high dollar deal with a non-contender over a MLE or less sized offer (again assuming the Jazz don’t win it all and he enters the offseason with a ring) with a true contender.
If a non-contender (like us or at least how we currently seem) wants him, it’s going to be high dollars for multiple years for him to even consider it, IMO.
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(03-29-2021, 05:40 PM)DrMav Wrote: I know I’m behind and this conversation has probably moved on somewhat, but I seriously doubt Conley is taking a short term high dollar deal with a non-contender over a MLE or less sized offer (again assuming the Jazz don’t win it all and he enters the offseason with a ring) with a true contender.
If a non-contender (like us or at least how we currently seem) wants him, it’s going to be high dollars for multiple years for him to even consider it, IMO.
We shall see
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So my theory with Conley is that at 33 he can get multiiple MLE offers for probably 1 year or maybe the Mavs give him 15 for 1 year and a starting job and can talk him into that. Jazz have salary cap issues. Just saying it could happen. Plenty of directions the Mavs could go. Teams don't really give 33 year olds multi-year deals unless they are like LeBron level talent.
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03-29-2021, 09:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2021, 09:39 PM by jesusshuttlesworth82.)
I cannot see Conley getting less than 2/$40 or 3/$51. (unless he decides to ring chase with the Lakers or Clippers)
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(03-29-2021, 09:38 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I cannot see Conley getting less than 2/$40 or 3/$51. (unless he decides to ring chase with the Lakers or Clippers)
Agreed. New York has cap space too.
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