MAVS NEWS:

[mvossman]

No PJ, Marshall or Gafford mentions.   

I have been thinking how I would rank the importance of the new guys brought to this team.

I think I would have the following
1) Morez-  This is sort of obvious
2) Risacher-  This is debateable but because he is older we may get an answer to him sooner than #3.
3) Sergio- could be #2, but we will see
4) Aldama
5)Sasser
6) Tarek
7) second round guys

I think Sergio is easily #2 and Aldama is in the same tier as Risacher.

[KillerLeft]

I still think the guy everyone around here is sleeping on is Biberovic. Notice how many times HE was mentioned above, and the tone of each mention. While there's probably some "wait and see" involved with his defensive readiness, I think he is an already established, elite-level professional movement shooter and it's likely that he's ready on day 1 to play the reduced rotation role Thompson played last year.

I'd have him higher on the "importance" list, personally.

[Scott41theMavs]

No PJ, Marshall or Gafford mentions.   

I have been thinking how I would rank the importance of the new guys brought to this team.

I think I would have the following
1) Morez-  This is sort of obvious
2) Risacher-  This is debateable but because he is older we may get an answer to him sooner than #3.
3) Sergio- could be #2, but we will see
4) Aldama
5)Sasser
6) Tarek
7) second round guys

1) Morez
2) Sergio
3) Aldama
4) Sasser
5) Tarik
6) Risacher
7) Ishchenko 
8) Lawal
9) that bust we got on the two-way

That ranking is their importance this year. If they somehow send Seva back to Russia saying “stay warm and well fed,” he obviously won’t figure in this year. I believe he shoots up on the list considerably by year three or so.

[Tyler]

On the draft: “We went in with a plan, but you always end up having to deviate some based on the board. The good news is that we feel like Morez (Johnson Jr.) is going to be an awesome frontcourt partner for Cooper (Flagg) and Dereck (Lively II),” a Mavs front office executive said. “And getting Sergio (De Larrea) late in the first (round) is huge. He can really, really play. And don’t sleep on Seva (Vsevolod Ishchenko). It might be a year or so, but he’s a player too.”

(This was a follow-up after the Zaccharie Risacher addition): “We’re thrilled to add him to our mix. Big lineups with Dereck (Lively II), Morez (Johnson Jr.), Cooper (Flagg), (Zaccharie) Risacher and some like Sergio (De Larrea) could be a real thing for us,” a Mavs assistant coach said. “It’s also really exciting to have Risacher to work with. There’s a ton of talent there and we didn’t give up much to get him.”

Anyone still questioning how Dallas sees Lively should re-read these parts a few times. He's clearly an important part of the plan.

[KillerLeft]

Anyone still questioning how Dallas sees Lively should re-read these parts a few times. He's clearly an important part of the plan.

Yeah, I was too busy to join into the conversation from yesterday or the day before, but reading through that back-and-forth on Lively by some our best contributors clarified the disconnect we all have on this quite a bit for me. We haven't been having the conversation correctly all this time. We always approach it like "some people assume he'll be healthy, and some people assume he'll never be healthy." In reality, I think we're all pretty close to each other on that spectrum by now - maybe some are more optimistic than others, but we all see that part of it in the same light, basically. 

What struck me the other day is that there's a fairly sizable contingent here who don't see Lively's value on the court (when healthy) the same way I do.  I was actually pretty shocked by that because I just assumed that everyone was a huge believer in the impact he makes on BOTH ends of the court. For me, it's kind of obvious, though learning that others don't see it that way made me take a step back and re-evaluate a bit. 

Honestly, if you assume he's healthy (again, THAT'S the conversation worth having), I literally don't think there are 5 centers in the league I'd want more than him. SO...for ME, he's ALREADY a top-5 center, no improvement needed. And, he WOULD continue to improve if he was able to play a couple of seasons without interruption, I'm sure. Maybe I (and others who think the way I do about him) are overrating him - that's very possible. However, doesn't that make our willingness to patiently wait as long as it's possible to wait, financially, to find out if he can get over this injury hump a little more understandable? It just struck me all of a sudden reading that conversation that those ready to move on because "he's always injured" ALSO don't seem to think he's a great on the court as some of the rest of us. I found the whole exchange quite illuminating.

[KillerLeft]

Like, don't interpret this as a suggestion that Lively should get a Walker Kessler contract, because I think that was the dumbest thing any team did this off-season, but...given the choice, I take Lively over him 100/100 times, even if Lively never plays another minute the first 99 times it plays out. THAT's how much better than Kessler I think Lively is in the modern NBA...assuming he's still Lively when his foot is fully healed, I guess.

[Mavs2021]

Like, don't interpret this as a suggestion that Lively should get a Walker Kessler contract, because I think that was the dumbest thing any team did this off-season, but...given the choice, I take Lively over him 100/100 times, even if Lively never plays another minute the first 99 times it plays out. THAT's how much better than Kessler I think Lively is in the modern NBA...assuming he's still Lively when his foot is fully healed, I guess.

I´d say Kessler and Lively are basically the same player.

[Knutsen]

I still think the guy everyone around here is sleeping on is Biberovic. Notice how many times HE was mentioned above, and the tone of each mention. While there's probably some "wait and see" involved with his defensive readiness, I think he is an already established, elite-level professional movement shooter and it's likely that he's ready on day 1 to play the reduced rotation role Thompson played last year.

I'd have him higher on the "importance" list, personally.

If only he would be able to shoot from NBA three point distance… 

No worries - just keeping the tension up and wanting Biber to proof Gump wrong.

[KillerLeft]

I´d say Kessler and Lively are basically the same player.

I mean, we're dealing in opinions of two players who have BOTH missed significant portions of their young careers due to injury, so I get it. Lots of room for judging it wrong, and I might be the one in the wrong, idk. 

I'm just trying to point out that with Lively, some of us (including the Mavs, potentially) see the potential for an extremely great reward in exchange for patience. All this time, and THAT'S the assumption those who are out on him really wanted to challenge. I had NO IDEA.

[KillerLeft]

If only he would be able to shoot from NBA three point distance… 

Man, it would be nice, but I'd suggest that his ability to make decisions and good passes out of the short roll AND function as a DHO hub at the top in a 5-out offense (BOTH of which are skillsets he's already demonstrated uncommon mastery of, especially for his age) are even more impactful than shooting from the corner. 

There are not many centers who can be a net positive in roles like this, and it makes everyone else on the floor better. And we're talking about OFFENSE.

[Knutsen]

Anyone still questioning how Dallas sees Lively should re-read these parts a few times. He's clearly an important part of the plan.

Lively, Morez, Flagg could be the worst shooting front court since the 80ties.

[KillerLeft]

Lively, Morez, Flagg could be the worst shooting front court since the 80ties.

That's the truth, but the hope has to be that Flagg and Johnson will both be shooters, eventually. And even if not, can you imagine those three in a rotation at the 4/5???!!!

That's nightmare fuel for the NBA if they can figure it out. I personally don't need to be super optimistic about the 3-way fit between them to love that trio as a team-building foundation.

[Smitty]

I mean, we're dealing in opinions of two players who have BOTH missed significant portions of their young careers due to injury, so I get it. Lots of room for judging it wrong, and I might be the one in the wrong, idk. 

I'm just trying to point out that with Lively, some of us (including the Mavs, potentially) see the potential for an extremely great reward in exchange for patience. All this time, and THAT'S the assumption those who are out on him really wanted to challenge. I had NO IDEA.

Who said they were out on Lively or thought the Mavs should be? I must have missed that part. I think the disconnect was on what his extension number should be. Some think they should lock him up for more than $18M/yr, before they even have to. Others think they should wait until he hits restricted free agency before committing that much money. Or get him at a “discount” now, somewhere between what he makes this year and the MLE range. At least that’s how I remember it.

[windjc]

Who said they were out on Lively or thought the Mavs should be? I must have missed that part. I think the disconnect was on what his extension number should be. Some think they should lock him up for more than $18M/yr, before they even have to. Others think they should wait until he hits restricted free agency before committing that much money. Or get him at a “discount” now, somewhere between what he makes this year and the MLE range. At least that’s how I remember it.

There have been several posters who have openly called him damaged goods and said they have written him off and expect nothing from him. Many have been very specific in thinking he isn't a viable part of the future.  Yes, they all might be morons, but let's not pretend it hasn't been said by many on here multiple times.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Some think they should lock him up for more than $18M/yr, before they even have to. Others think they should wait until he hits restricted free agency before committing that much money. Or get him at a “discount” now, somewhere between what he makes this year and the MLE range. At least that’s how I remember it.

Who are these "some" people who "think" these things?  Probably the same people who make wild trade proposals or want to knee-jerk trade away valuable players for absolutely nothing in return.

I do recall one poster who said he'd take the over on a $17.5mm AAV "if" the discussions Stein reported resulted in an agreement.  I thought at the time he made a brilliant argument.  If Lively is good, and he is, Lively won't agree to a deal any smaller than that.  Have we seen who his agent is?  And if Lively agrees to something, it will be a larger number than people think (with potential medical outs built into the number).  I personally don't think that guy can lose that bet.  It is either a win or a draw - since there was no agreement to judge.

But, I'm sure there must have been other people on the board who said Dallas "should" lock him up for more than $18M/yr and I just missed it.

[Smitty]

Who are these "some" people who "think" these things?  Probably the same people who make wild trade proposals or want to knee-jerk trade away valuable players for absolutely nothing in return.

I do recall one poster who said he'd take the over on a $17.5mm AAV "if" the discussions Stein reported resulted in an agreement.  I thought at the time he made a brilliant argument.  If Lively is good, and he is, Lively won't agree to a deal any smaller than that.  Have we seen who his agent is?  And if Lively agrees to something, it will be a larger number than people think (with potential medical outs built into the number).  I personally don't think that guy can lose that bet.  It is either a win or a draw - since there was no agreement to judge.

But, I'm sure there must have been other people on the board who said Dallas "should" lock him up for more than $18M/yr and I just missed it.

I wasn’t talking about you, if you think I was. I was just giving a general overview of the discussion from a few days ago. Well, as good as possible. My memory isn’t what it once was. I don’t want to rehash the same discussion or anything. It was more about my curiosity with KL’s impression that some posters thought they Mavs should be out on the Lively experience entirely. I do not remember that part.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

On the draft: “We went in with a plan, but you always end up having to deviate some based on the board“


Hmmm

[mvossman]

On the draft: “We went in with a plan, but you always end up having to deviate some based on the board“


Hmmm

My guess would be that they were considering the trade down plan a lot folks suggested getting Morez at 12 but realized he would be gone by then.  Maybe it was that they were hoping one of the 1-8 guys fell to them, but the only guy that seems like he had much chance was Flemings, and I would be surprised if he was their primary target.

[rocky164]

Yeah, I was too busy to join into the conversation from yesterday or the day before, but reading through that back-and-forth on Lively by some our best contributors clarified the disconnect we all have on this quite a bit for me. We haven't been having the conversation correctly all this time. We always approach it like "some people assume he'll be healthy, and some people assume he'll never be healthy." In reality, I think we're all pretty close to each other on that spectrum by now - maybe some are more optimistic than others, but we all see that part of it in the same light, basically. 

What struck me the other day is that there's a fairly sizable contingent here who don't see Lively's value on the court (when healthy) the same way I do.  I was actually pretty shocked by that because I just assumed that everyone was a huge believer in the impact he makes on BOTH ends of the court. For me, it's kind of obvious, though learning that others don't see it that way made me take a step back and re-evaluate a bit. 

Honestly, if you assume he's healthy (again, THAT'S the conversation worth having), I literally don't think there are 5 centers in the league I'd want more than him. SO...for ME, he's ALREADY a top-5 center, no improvement needed. And, he WOULD continue to improve if he was able to play a couple of seasons without interruption, I'm sure. Maybe I (and others who think the way I do about him) are overrating him - that's very possible. However, doesn't that make our willingness to patiently wait as long as it's possible to wait, financially, to find out if he can get over this injury hump a little more understandable? It just struck me all of a sudden reading that conversation that those ready to move on because "he's always injured" ALSO don't seem to think he's a great on the court as some of the rest of us. I found the whole exchange quite illuminating.

When healthy, Lively is a game changer.  It’s just been so long since we’ve seen him healthy that people have forgotten the impact he has on a game.  I know it’s a small sample size but what he did in the finals run was top 5 center in the league stuff.  Personally I can’t wait to see him healthy again and playing for the Mavericks, even if it takes another year or so, it is worth the wait.

[Chicagojk]

I am a big Lively fan, but I have tempered my expectations.  Lets see him on the court for an extended period first.    With him not playing basketball or running for around 6 months, we should really be careful with expectations with him.    Even if he is given a full bill of good health by the medical staff, I think the goal for him next year is just to be available in a lot of games.   Even if he plays limited minutes or even sits games out.   He just needs to be a basketball player again.   I am sure there will be a bit of a mental block too when he is fully cleared.   It is probably going to take time and we may need to work through a lot of things before we see him back to being him again.