Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[michaeltex]

For the record, I think its worth noting that Jason Kidd has shown some signs of being a very good NBA coach especially in terms of handling the players and the teams motivation.  

Give him credit not only for having a finals appearance already which is very rare in this franchises history, but even for navigating this team through this fiasco of a trade and tidal wave of injury.  The way the team played the last 2 games is indicative also of great leadership and coaching.

I agree.

The last two games, in particular, seem like some HOF level coaching. I can remember playing SAS with key players out and them wiping the floor with DAL. Whatever magic Popovich has, it gets everyone to play hard regardless of the circumstances. These last two games had that feel. Undermanned and under sized, but still staying competitive and pulling out a win.

[KillerLeft]

And yet he led the entire nba in pretty much every statistical playoff category while dragging a 5th place team to the finals. What did the rest of the team shoot against the Celtics? Luka is 2nd all time, out of every player who’s ever played over decades of basketball, in playoff scoring, and he can still lead all current players in rebounding, assists, minutes, and even steals. We’ll never see his like again.

They were in 5th place because he wasn't ready to start the season, basically. 

He led the NBA in pretty much every statistical playoff category because the entire offense was just having him on-ball, 24/7. 

I get it. You don't think there was anything wrong with his last playoff run, and you don't think he should've been traded. I'm telling you, I legitimately (as in, not to make an argument - this is how I felt, PRIOR to the trade) didn't like where his game, his body, his attitude or his career were headed. If you think that makes me dumb, so be it. I respect your opinion, friend.

[khaled1987]

I doubt it truthfully. Dirk himself said he barely did anything for Luka his rookie year because he already came in playing like a pro. Maybe Luka would’ve built some better habits just by being in proximity to Dirk but i don’t think that’s how Luka operates. 

Still there is no excuse as to why he can’t keep himself at the apex of his physical condition. Doesn’t take away that he’s arguably the best player in the world when healthy. I miss my Slovenian. *Siri, play Miki Milane*

Didn't Dirk say it was KP the one who tries to learn the most from him? Luka didn’t have that much interest. 

I think Luka likes and respects Dirk and it is mutual. But I do agree that a Haslem role wouldn't have made that much difference for him.

[mvossman]

Sorry to butt in, but...

FWIW, I think AD is going to be a monster along side a true center like Gaff or Lively, now that he doesn't have to defer to LBJ. His debut was just a glimpse.

I will be very curious to see how that plays out.  I lean strongly towards AD being more effective at center than PF, but I do want to see it played out.  With the Gafford news we may not get a chance depending on what they do in the offseason (which is unfortunate).  Maybe it will be a matchup thing where AD at the 4 makes sense against some teams, but against others he needs to be at the 5.

[audiosway]

I think this is very telling, especially from someone of Kyrie's talent. 

I'll always remember the sh*t-eating grin he gave Booker and the barking at Gobert. But, in the last few years, even with an improved roster, it was more about his Luka-centric game which often limited contributions by other players. Honestly felt like watching Harden MkII sometimes. 

Everyone agrees that Luka has the ability to generate a WOW moment every time he touches the ball. That's why a lot (most?) of us tuned in. But because he was "our guy" it was difficult to try and air any criticism on this board. To the point that some very significant contributors left rather than deal with the crap sent their way. Now, since he's now "their guy" it's OK to try and be realistic about his strengths and weaknesses. Not to delight in his failings, but to take off the rose-colored glasses and try and see him objectively. I honestly hope he gets the message, and I'll continue to look forward to those WOW plays, but pulling for the Lakers to win just isn't going to happen for me.

Those wow moments were amazing to watch. I think people forget as well how much better he moved when he came into the league. At that point he had a "pace" to his game. He made you play at his speed. Now he just can't get by anyone. I saw something yesterday that floored me. Someone had a picture of him right now (close to 270lbs) next to Joey Bosa who is a 49ers defensive end. Bosa is 266lbs. That's not what you want out of a PG.

Look at what his weight does hindering Zion and he is a 4. Zion is only about 14 pounds heavier than Luka and he is overweight for a 4.

Not only does it slow him down so that he can't get by anyone but it also is hard on his joints and muscles. I've watched highlights from his 2 games so far with LA. He can't get by anyone and he doesn't look right with his gait and movement. Something just seems off. Time will tell if he listens to someone. I hope he does. Even then though, he still doesn't look healthy or right if that makes sense.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Those wow moments were amazing to watch. I think people forget as well how much better he moved when he came into the league. At that point he had a "pace" to his game. He made you play at his speed. Now he just can't get by anyone. I saw something yesterday that floored me. Someone had a picture of him right now (close to 270lbs) next to Joey Bosa who is a 49ers defensive end. Bosa is 266lbs. That's not what you want out of a PG.

Look at what his weight does hindering Zion and he is a 4. Zion is only about 14 pounds heavier than Luka and he is overweight for a 4.

Not only does it slow him down so that he can't get by anyone but it also is hard on his joints and muscles. I've watched highlights from his 2 games so far with LA. He can't get by anyone and he doesn't look right with his gait and movement. Something just seems off. Time will tell if he listens to someone. I hope he does. Even then though, he still doesn't look healthy or right if that makes sense.

I mentioned that earlier on page 63. He doesn't look right. I think he's still injured and not letting on to it.

[Winter]

I mentioned that earlier on page 63. He doesn't look right. I think he's still injured and not letting on to it.

Most all of the NBA sports sites like ESPN say Doncic weighs 230 lbs. I wonder if there's any reliable spot that records his recent weight.

[KillerLeft]

Most all of the NBA sports sites like ESPN say Doncic weighs 230 lbs. I wonder if there's any reliable spot that records his recent weight.

He hasn't weighed 230 since the bubble, which coincidentally was the last time I remember him moving well enough to be truly scary. 

The whole change of speed thing isn't as effective if it's always from slow to slower. To his credit, he has developed a lethal midrange game, but I have been feeling cheated that we only got to see young, quick Luka for like two seasons. Even though he's not with the team anymore, I hope he finds a way to get that back, because he was a lot more fun to watch back then.

[ThisIStheYear]

They were in 5th place because he wasn't ready to start the season, basically. 

He led the NBA in pretty much every statistical playoff category because the entire offense was just having him on-ball, 24/7. 

I get it. You don't think there was anything wrong with his last playoff run, and you don't think he should've been traded. I'm telling you, I legitimately (as in, not to make an argument - this is how I felt, PRIOR to the trade) didn't like where his game, his body, his attitude or his career were headed. If you think that makes me dumb, so be it. I respect your opinion, friend.

That’s right, no one is perfect, but I didn’t have a problem with his playoff run. Few in history have done better. The Mavs were just outmatched against the Celtics, and Kyrie didn’t show up against them.  I also didn’t think he should be traded, especially for the return we got back. As far as the criticism of how he showed up this season, I agree, but not enough to sell him off for an old player with an even greater history of injuries who plays a less valuable position.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1889232393057235036

Gotta love this. I think he speaks for most of us. I would have invited Cuban to make me STFU and STFD. You use words on me like we're in a bar, better be ready for me to treat you like we're in a bar.

[audiosway]

I mentioned that earlier on page 63. He doesn't look right. I think he's still injured and not letting on to it.

Good call. I think something serious is going on. He hasn't looked right in a while now. Like Killer mentioned, the last time he looked really good was the bubble. He has gotten slower each year since. Now he is still walking with an odd gait.

It's really strange that nothing has shown up during physicals. He's definitely not right. Not sure if it's the weight or what.

[cow]

[KillerLeft]

That’s right, no one is perfect, but I didn’t have a problem with his playoff run. Few in history have done better. The Mavs were just outmatched against the Celtics, and Kyrie didn’t show up against them.  I also didn’t think he should be traded, especially for the return we got back. As far as the criticism of how he showed up this season, I agree, but not enough to sell him off for an old player with an even greater history of injuries who plays a less valuable position.

I wouldn’t have traded him either, dude.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

For the record, I think its worth noting that Jason Kidd has shown some signs of being a very good NBA coach especially in terms of handling the players and the teams motivation.  

Give him credit not only for having a finals appearance already which is very rare in this franchises history, but even for navigating this team through this fiasco of a trade and tidal wave of injury.  The way the team played the last 2 games is indicative also of great leadership and coaching.

I hate to admit to it, but you are absolutely right

[burekemde]

Good call. I think something serious is going on. He hasn't looked right in a while now. Like Killer mentioned, the last time he looked really good was the bubble. He has gotten slower each year since. Now he is still walking with an odd gait.

It's really strange that nothing has shown up during physicals. He's definitely not right. Not sure if it's the weight or what.

If he "doesnt look right" and plays MVP level like he did every season, im totally fine with that. It is not Luka that disseapeared in the playoffs and finals, its Kyrie. Its just the style of baskebtall Luka plays, much similar to Jokic. This will never change and he will keep dominate in that way. We have seen the AD's and Max Christies running around him trying to defende and cant do anything about it.

The first two games with Lakers he looks still in shock being traded. He is all about loyalty. Its not the injury or the weight or anythyng like that. Luka is all about loyalty. he is completely shocked (like at the press conference) being in a different team with new teammates. Be sure that this will go away and he will get his revenge, and this will hurt. He will build loyalty with the Lakers. It wil take time.

[SleepingHero]

@MikeACurtis2
Asked Nikola Jokic about his good friend Luka Doncic being traded to the Lakers:

“He was building something there. He was hurt.”

[Chicagojk]

It is still really tough. I have been trying to put my head in the sand and just focus on the current team. It is going to be really tough though.

I think I have settled on two routes on why Nico made the trade. This is obvoiusly a bet against Luka. Although, I think it was one of two reasons...maybe a combo of both.

1) Nico became frustrated with Luka. There may or may not have been known friction but Nico thought his message was not being taken seriously. So Nico made it personal in a you or me type of scenario. This is why another voice in the room would have been helpful.

2) Nico is proud of this team he put together and sees a 2-4 year window with the team he put together. He has a lof pride of the his recent moves. So while he had some doubts in Luka, he decided to make a move where he thinks improves the teams chances in the short term to be able to win with "his roster" Although having another voice in the room here would also have been helpful. Another strong voice should have been in the room telling Nico that if you move Luka in reality your window closes.


As I have said before, I really don't see a reason why they traded him. I do think Luka deserves some criticism though. He has to be in better shape and healthy. It was really disappointing to see how he played the first part of the year after getting so close last year and thinking we had a better team entering the season. He was still productive because he is so smart and so tough, but just seeing him move you knew it wasn't going to be long to see him injured again. Just seeing him trying to dunk looked like he was 45 years old and not 25. He could still win a championship if he didn't maximize his health and fitness, but he needs to get that corrected ASAP to be one of the best ever.

[hakeemfaan]

So much criticism on this thread to show how fair and neutral we are. Yet this guy led us to the Finals a year ago. Are we forgetting Kyries struggles, the lack of any stretch offense from our centers, or that we shot a horrible percentage on open 3s in that Finals? Is that all Luka’s fault? Reading some of the posts here Luka must have the most natural talent in the history of the league by a wide margin that he was continuously able to be so productive while he was running around at 270 lbs.

Give me a break. Did he have his faults and could he have been in better shape? Absolutely. At the same time does a fat, slow out of shape guy, with a high usage rate dominate teams in the playoffs when physicality is turned up several notches. No. Check some of his dribble drives and how fast he comes to a full stop on offense while driving. That takes a lot of leg strength, balance and stamina. Now try it over and over amd keep going at defenses relentlessly. Many on this thread are just not even coming close to understanding the level of effort this guy was giving on offense. No matter how much he looks like a dad playing at the YMCA, the defenders he had to go against were not YMCA guys. These are some of the most gifted and physical athletes who were trying to slow him down, many a times in packs, and yet he was the one wearing them out. Think about what it takes to do that and if someone really fat, slow and lazy will be able to.

Most of the criticism here is based on his style of play. I didn’t particularly enjoy it either. At the same time this team was not built on a motion offense. It was built on isos and picks. Luka didn’t have any problems with a 3 headed rotation of himself , Brunson and Dinwiddie taking turns. He didn’t have any problems the last playoffs with Kyrie taking over complete stretches.

Even many here who acknowledge how great a player he is and are saying how they would not have traded him, are IMO still not understanding the talent AND effort it takes on the court to be that supremely productive.

[mvossman]

It is still really tough.  I have been trying to put my head in the sand and just focus on the current team.  It is going to be really tough though.

I think I have settled on two routes on why Nico made the trade.  This is obvoiusly a bet against Luka.  Although, I think it was one of two reasons...maybe a combo of both.

1) Nico became frustrated with Luka.  There may or may not have been known friction but Nico thought his message was not being taken seriously.    So Nico made it personal in a you or me type of scenario.    This is why another voice in the room would have been helpful.

2) Nico is proud of this team he put together and sees a 2-4 year window with the team he put together.  He has a lof pride of the his recent moves.    So while he had some doubts in Luka, he decided to make a move where he thinks improves the teams chances in the short term to be able to win with "his roster"  Although having another voice in the room here would also have been helpful.  Another strong voice should have been in the room telling Nico that if you move Luka in reality your window closes.

To add to this, for a little over a year while Linsey was here there was a clear focus on acquiring young players on reasonable deals (Lively, Omax, Williams, Exum, DJJ, PJ, Gafford, Grimes).  The second Linsey left the mindset seemed to change.  Instead of DJJ being the number one priority, it suddenly became Klay, a 34 year old primarily offensive player who had prior ties with Nico.  The argument was we needed better offense to deal with Boston.  Then just a few months later we trade our superstar for another older player with ties to Nico.  This time the argument was defense wins championships.  And of course his biggest move prior to Linsey being here was sending all of our assets for Kyrie, another older player with ties to Nico.

It feels a lot like this is all about Nico getting his guys here than any coherent plan.

[audiosway]

If he "doesnt look right" and plays MVP level like he did every season, im totally fine with that. It is not Luka that disseapeared in the playoffs and finals, its Kyrie. Its just the style of baskebtall Luka plays, much similar to Jokic. This will never change and he will keep dominate in that way. We have seen the AD's and Max Christies running around him trying to defende and cant do anything about it.

The first two games with Lakers he looks still in shock being traded. He is all about loyalty. Its not the injury or the weight or anythyng like that. Luka is all about loyalty. he is completely shocked (like at the press conference) being in a different team with new teammates. Be sure that this will go away and he will get his revenge, and this will hurt. He will build loyalty with the Lakers. It wil take time.

I mentioned right after the trade happened that I would have looked at moving Kyrie before I would have Luka. However, I'm also being honest about what I see and have seen with Luka.

If you think it was just Kyrie that disappeared during the Finals you need to go back and watch the games. Yes Kyrie disappeared. But, Luka shot 58.6% (17-29) from the free throw line and 24.4% from 3. Boston turned him into a volume shooter. Kyrie shot 27.6% from 3 and was perfect from the free throw line (9-9).

Realistically, Boston just dominated the Mavs. It really wasn't close at any point. Looking back at the game stats there was zero way Dallas could have won those games. They needed more offensive output and more defense.

Kyrie is trying to be a good defender. He was even mentioned as playing D in the all star game. Luka was not playing D against Boston. I think mainly due to him being exhausted. At least that's how it looked. He would rest with his hands on his knees. That's just exhausted.

Kyrie did average 19.8 Points per game against Boston and Luka averaged 29.8. But, the Mavs desperately needed more output from the rest of the cast. They didn't get it.

I'm at the point now where I've moved past the trade and ready to see what the guys can do when they are healthy. I do hope that Luka changes and we get to see what he is capable of. But, I'll be 100% about this. If he doesn't start working on his diet and conditioning he won't last. He looks about 45 right now instead of 25. 

It's sad too because he is incredibly talented. You talk about being like Jokic and being bigger working for him in the playoffs. Jokic got on a regiment of diet and exercise right before they won the title. Also, Luka is a PG. Jokic is a 5. Massive difference. At 7 foot Jokic can shoot over the D. Luka needs to be able to move to create space.